297 · Ghostbusters II

• The Slime is rising fast…who ya gonna call?
• NES Longplay
• Manual
• This game is not a franchise simulator
• Ghostbusters II, not the video game we thought, but I think for a lot of people also not the movie they hoped for
• It is spooky season so does GB fall into your halloween movie lineup?
• Overview
  • Play as the four Ghostbusters in platforming levels where you must get to the end of the stage while fighting off ghosts, then ride in the Ectomobile in autoscrolling levels also trying to get to the end of the stage, but avoiding ghosts and holes in the streets of NYC.
    • Not potholes, giant fucking holes
• The Ghostbusting
  • This is what people wanted in the first game, but were just treated to that awful slow ending. Now as an action sidescrolling how does it work?
  • Awkward adjustment of the ghostbuster
  • Lots of different things going on at different planes with no real need to engage with any of them.
• The ectomobile
  • This took no effort at all develop. Just generate ghosts and construction zones
  • Did the car do a ridiculously long jump in the movie or something?
• Statue of Liberty Level
  • Cool to see them work the movie in
  • It’s a space invaders style level and nothing more
• The final level
  • You have to complete it 4 times, each as a different Ghostbuster BUT THEY DON’T HAVE ANYTHING THAT MAKES THEM UNIQUE
  • No Vigo boss fight
  • The newspaper knows the plot?
    • Ghostbusters destroy Vigo before midnight deadline
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • New Ghostbusters II by HAL Labs BUT WE WON’T PLAY IT. Look for it as a Bytes episode maybe
• EGL
  • This feels like a Flash game a kid in the early 2000s would’ve put together and uploaded on Newgrounds.
• Next week - Ghostbusters II
• NEStalgia Byte -

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Ghostbusters 2, the slime is rising fast, who you gonna call?

00:21 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Joe, did that freak you out a little bit? Yeah, that's just, it's just, I'm comfortable now with the pace and the tone and the cadence of that opening. Well, it is spooky season, both in the time that people listen to this episode and, you know, hey, it's 2023, so it's always spooky season now.

00:57 I'm so excited. Where does Ghostbusters, forget about, you know, the debate between the original and Ghostbusters 2, where does Ghostbusters fall into your Halloween movie lineup? Is that in your rotation every year? Is that like a, I don't even think about Ghostbusters anymore? It's not cool anymore? Or is that like a, yeah, I enjoyed it and I'll put it if somebody, I'll watch it if somebody puts it on. It's probably the latter most for me.

01:20 I think I saw Ghostbusters for the first time when I was maybe like 20. And then I, I saw it most recently, maybe five or six years ago, or whenever, maybe whenever we recorded the episode for the first one, I might have like skimmed it. But I don't really think about Ghostbusters that much. I'm not certain that I've ever seen it all the way through. Like I've maybe seen clips, I've seen like the Stay Puft Marshmallow thing and maybe a couple other clips. Maybe I saw it all the way through when I was a kid and don't remember any of it. But yeah, I don't think I've seen it.

01:58 Ghostbusters 1 is a movie I'm very familiar with. Seen it many times. Even at an early age, it was one of those things where like as a kid, you're convinced that it is a little scary. And then you watch the whole movie. And even though nothing scary, scary happens, there are some like moments that would terrify a young child.

02:15 Yeah. And so it has like that, it's that Halloween friendly vibe to it. Whereas like, you know, you're not watching The Conjuring or something, you know, The Exorcist. You're watching Hocus Pocus. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, you know, it's I am spooked a little bit, but I can still watch the whole movie. The Ring is not something I could do when I was a kid. I couldn't watch that whole movie. I was freaked out when she came out of the TV.

02:38 It did happen. Anyway, this is not a Halloween movie recap episode. This is about Ghostbusters 2. And believe it or not, we have played Ghostbusters 1. And I have to say, believe it or not, because sometimes you don't play the first game. Goonies 2. We never played the first Goonies game. So for Ghostbusters, we did play a Ghostbusters game. But was it really based on the movie? No, it was a franchise simulator where you opened up your own Ghostbusters in your town and had to manage money and, you know, fight ghosts and make money to buy new parts and stuff like that. Deal with the national gas shortage. Yeah, Sean had a lot of amusing takes on the episode and everything.

03:20 So Ghostbusters 2, not the video game we thought, but I think also for a lot of people, Ghostbusters 2 was not the movie they hoped for. So maybe the Ghostbusters... They're trying to stick with that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're trying to stick with that and flip our expectations a little bit. So, here's the thing. So I haven't seen Ghostbusters 2. Can you give me like a 30 second pitch? No. Okay.

03:49 I can give you the quick pitch is that the ghost, you know, like on the logo for Ghostbusters, you know, with the sensor sign going through him. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Can you give me that? Yeah, he has the peace sign this time for two. That's true. That's how you get it. I know that. I do know that. I just thought maybe you knew what happened in the movie is all. Well, is what happened in the movie related to this little opening text you get? I am Valdo? At the stroke of midnight.

04:16 Huh? I am Valdo? Yeah. Like maybe that's, maybe this is a good synopsis. Okay. But I don't know, did you guys read this synopsis at the beginning? Yeah. No, I, is that the one that happens after the Ghostbusters car tells you that they're back and ready to believe you? No, this is, well, yes, but also if you, if it wants the story, you to read the story, it does not make it easy to do so because you have to watch, yes, this, this, um, this cut scene without interrupting it, without touching a button where it tells you that Ghostbusters are back and they're ready to believe you. And it's just a cut scene of someone playing a level for a minute and 22 seconds. Then the credits roll and you have to watch the entirety of the credits.

05:00 Then you get the plot. That's pretty wild. If you, if you touch any button, you skip it all. That's pretty insane. I, yeah, I only saw it after I was looking for more footage to watch. Uh, not so much when I was playing because I would never be that crazy to wait that long to press play. Uh, so look how well the game translates the plot of Ghostbusters to, I guess, is anybody's call, but yes, it is following the same, um, movie points of like, it's, you know, New Year's Eve and they, before midnight and everything.

05:34 And you gotta, uh, with Vigo, you gotta take him down. He's in the painting and everything. All those things happen in both the game and in the movie. The game is though missing a few plot points, but whatever. It, it, it's enough to satisfy, I think, on a way that Ghostbusters 1 just wasn't, right? Does, does the Statue of Liberty swim and, uh, shoot birds in the movie?

05:58 I don't know if they shoot birds, but yes, they do control the Statue of Liberty in the movie. Oh, cool. Yeah, absolutely. Hmm. I should watch that movie. That's what sold you on it. Yes. The Statue of Liberty being like the thing that they control is probably, you know, like a direct, like, what's our, what's our Stay Puft Marshmallow moment of this movie, you know? So, last time the Stay Puft Marshmallow was like, you know, don't think of anything, don't think of anything. And that's what he thought of. So then it roams the streets and causes terror.

06:28 This time they control the Statue of Liberty and all the citizens love it. Yeah, because, I mean, everyone has always fantasized about Lady Liberty and just seeing her, like, you know, able to walk around, shoot stuff with the torch. Like, that's sort of just like, uh, that's what you want to see. I'd like to dedicate this next song to a woman that's over 50 feet tall and a hundred years old.

06:56 That's another Simpsons joke. Just in case anybody's racking them up. I figured you'd know. Yep, the next line in that, the punchline is, is that this giant woman will kill us all. And then the guy jumps off the boat. Um, he's not aware that he's talking about the statue.

07:09 Ah. Hmm. Uh, and, but look, okay, forget about the plot. Forget about the game and everything, because it's important. Forget about the game. Forget about, just forget about this podcast. This is about painting now. Yeah. Forget about all that, because I think what's important is, is that when you start this game, it's immediately apparent that you are playing as the four Ghostbusters in platforming levels, and then you're riding around in the ectomobile, and you're even controlling the Statue of Liberty.

07:38 Yes. Whether those things are pulled off successfully, I think a lot of Ghostbusters fans are automatically, um, satisfied, compared to the first game that was rather confusing, and then ended with like a, you know, chugging up the stairs that took forever to face off against the Stay Puft Marshmallow. Like, this has more direct action going on. I'll, I'll say that even, you know, before we even get into like, if any of it actually worked or was fun, right off the bat, the vibe I get from this game is, is like, fun. Like, they're trying to be fun, they got the music going, you got like, funny things happening, there's like, you know, it's like, it's action-y, and it's moving. So like, like, I just get a fun vibe from this game.

08:23 There's messages coming to you on the like, opening cutscene, of like, the Ghostbusters are back and ready to believe you and stuff like that. You got to kind of like, wait to watch the whole thing to get the full message, and it, like, it seems like they, they took a big note from the first one, like, hey, this isn't like, action-packed enough. And like, the vibe is there immediately to me. Yeah, it was almost as if in the first game that they wanted to make a game where it, it was just everything that happened between the scenes in the movie. Yeah. Like, oh, well, we'll just put all the time where they're like driving to places in the game so that it all makes sense in the end. And then, you know, running up the stairs, yada, yada.

09:01 And then an executive was like, wait a second, why did we do that when we could have had a perfectly, I mean, it's not, it's not a perfectly fine action game, but it's at least more. A perfectly fine concept for an action game. Yeah, it looks like an action game now, and it plays kind of like an action game now.

09:24 So, yeah. Yeah, I don't know what their devices are called, but the slime blowers, I don't know, whatever it is. We'll go a slime blower. Yeah, okay. Those devices that they use are one of the, like, you know, in the history of IPs, ripe for video game kind of things. It's like lightsabers, right? Like, it's the kind of thing that, like, sure, just make that the gun and make a whole game around capturing or shooting at ghosts. And, you know, that there can be a video game there. Just like how everybody wants to be Luke Skywalker with a lightsaber. I'm sure kids when Ghostbusters 2 came out also wanted to use that to bust some ghosts.

10:06 Now that they're able to do that in this one, you know, via action side-scrolling stages, how does it work? So, all right, you get dropped into the darkness. You get dropped into the sewer slash subway system.

10:26 And I think this happens in the movie. There is just a tiny spider that forces you to go in one direction. And if you try to go in the other direction, you will get knocked to the ground and you can't go. I don't know what that was about. It's also in the opposite direction that you would normally go in a side-scroller. So it's just very strange. You're going left a lot in this game. Don't know what the actual reason for that is. Anyway, then you use your kind of impressive, in terms of physical simulation sense, gun. What would you call it? The slime gun? Slime buster? No. Slime buster.

11:06 Um, and you can just, like, shoot a bunch of slime everywhere you go. And it just will continue to exist in the world. Uh, you can shoot straight up and then it'll fall right on your head maybe, like, ten seconds later. It's, it's strange. It's very strange. But you've got ghosts and stuff and, I guess, like, poltergeists coming at you. Some of them you're going to want to just, like, shoot them with the slime.

11:32 Some of them you're going to want to put the, uh, what do you call it? The, uh, the little robot that, Roomba. You want to put the Roomba down and then it'll suck up the ghost and you get extra points for that. Um, so, you're already incorporating the, the, the iconic devices from the movie better in the first, like, 40 seconds of the game. It's still a very strange experience. Uh, and it feels like no other game I've played on this system.

12:04 Uh, but those things are there. The other thing that is, like, interesting and different about that gun. And, I mean, one, you know, there's, like, the physics and, like, you know, the, since the bullets, quote, unquote, are these blobs, globs of ectoplasma or whatever slime, whatever it is. Um, it, it kind of goes in, like, an arc and, like, plops down. It doesn't, like, shoot straight forward.

12:26 But also, hitting up or down on the D-pad makes you aim up or down, but, like, on, you know. It's an angular aim. Yeah, it's various angles. So, like, if you hit up just once, you're gonna aim at, like, a, you know, at, like, a 45 degree angle, maybe even less than that. And then, like, up again, and it's, like, you know, maybe a 70 degree angle. Then you're, like, right at a 90 degree angle. And, like, that gets a little weird. It's a little overwhelming. Gameplay-wise. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But, yeah, you can, and, like, I find myself, honestly, mostly just aiming at, like, a 45 degree angle.

13:00 Because, like, most of the enemies come from above. And it's just easier to stay like that. Like, that be my default rather than shooting forward. Yeah. But, yeah, it was interesting. It's weird that they chose to lock it in so that you have to change the direction via button input. Where we've seen games like Contra successfully do this, you know, much easier and much more freeing. And I can't help but feel like, you know, yeah, Contra had a lot more enemies and a lot more of, like, a closed-in space.

13:29 So, you know, you did need to be more reactive. But we're just being hampered by not being able to do that in this game, having already seen it be done. Now, what do you mean by that? You mean the fact that if you let go, it doesn't, like, default to a default angle?

13:48 Yes, exactly. And, like, that you can just, like, you know, in Contra, you can just shift to the exact direction that you need to be in. So you can jump all the way to the other diagonal end of yourself. Yeah. They seem to have prioritized being very, like, being very exact. And, you know, in Contra, you only have, what, like, eight directions to shoot in? Correct. And this one, there's, like, probably 16 or 32 directions you can shoot in. I don't really understand why those are all there, but they seem to prioritize that. All right.

14:43 Just to jump in for a second, just to show you how much we know versus how much Ghostbusters fans know versus how much Activision the makers of this game knew about Ghostbusters, the Ghostbusters 2 manual referred to it as the slime blower. But we all, including me, Sean, and Joe, we knew this. We just didn't know it because we're not super fans. But when I say it, the thing is referred to as the proton pack.

15:08 That is the official name. And everybody knows that. Yeah. It's just we didn't, you know, we're not that big of it. But, like, that is weird, right? Yeah. It is strange. To call it the slime blower and never say, like, were they not able to get the right proton pack? Yeah, exactly. The entire IP of Ghostbusters, except for proton pack, they were able to license.

15:30 That's extra. That's strange. Yeah. But there's, you know, the issue also with the ghostbusting part of the game is that there are a lot of different things going on at different planes of the screen with no real need to engage with any of them when your goal is to just get to the end of the stage. Like, yeah, it's nice to get points. Yeah, it's nice to get those Ghostbusters logos, which are, you know, it's kind of meta that they're all over the place. But collecting those is good for you. So, otherwise, it's just in your best interest to dodge and not necessarily slime and destroy things, correct? Yeah. I mean, you're gonna...

16:11 Like, you've got to do it, but not for everything. Yeah, it's more, I think, you're using it more as sort of crowd control. Like, you're trying to, you know, clear a path. Also, it's just fun to shoot the thing, and every once in a while when you see a particularly, like, dense area or a obstacle that you prefer to just get out of the way, then you can drop the Roomba down.

16:39 Yeah, it's definitely not a game where you are compelled to kill everything. Yeah, I mean, I use it specifically for, like, defense. And, you know, I actually don't find it particularly fun to shoot it. I find it fun and... I find it interesting to shoot it, but, like, I find it kind of annoying.

16:57 Because, like, sometimes I just need to kill something and it's, like, not that easy to aim. Especially because it arcs and because, like, yeah, the way you have to adjust the angle. I just think, like, even in this second stage of when you're ghostbusting, I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a library or a museum.

17:14 But there are just enemies with patterns that are just kind of... They're the slimes that are kind of sluggish but move diagonally all over the stage. Yes, they drop some slime, but as long as you're in front of them, they don't move fast enough to necessarily, like, keep up with you. So, again, just dodge them. And then there's other things that move in, like, crazy diagonal patterns but in an up-down position. So they act more like, you know, guillotines where it's, like, just don't get hit by them at the bottom and you don't have to worry about them either.

17:48 It's just something about the lack of need to ghostbust bothered me. Well, maybe they're trying to say something, like, you know, ghostbusting isn't a necessity. Like, it's nice to be free of poltergeists and phantasms, but we should just live and let live.

18:06 Yeah, and I'm not arguing for, like, the Luigi's Mansion approach either, like, that we needed to be, like, sucking up and capturing ghosts or whatever. I mean, that would have been fine, too. But even just as, like, your proton pack is your gun and you're defeating these ghosts, it could have been maybe a little more, like, how do I say this? Like, the enemies, I guess, could have been a little more confrontational rather than just, like, littered on the screen. Yeah, there's no AI here. They're just patterns and you're supposed to avoid or eliminate them.

18:43 They're not trying to kill you. They just exist. Yeah, and otherwise there's really nothing else happening in the stage. So by just getting, by just continuing on in the direction you have to go in, which is a little weird because you're going right to left in a few of these stages. We haven't seen that, right? In almost all of them, you're going right to left. It's very strange. I'm sorry. In the ghost busting one specifically, you're going right to left. Yes. But then in the car, you're going left to right. So are you just going around in circles?

19:14 No, never mind. No, I guess I'm just saying, like, there's no other, like, key objective story beat, right? It's just complete the stage to get to the next stage. And maybe it needed a plot point or a boss fight. I don't know. There's probably not enough bosses in Ghostbusters 2. But that never stops some other video game. Yeah, they should have used more set pieces. I'm sure there were set pieces in this movie, even though I haven't seen it.

19:39 And maybe they shouldn't be used in the way of, like, maybe walking up some stairs. But, you know, I know that later in the game, there's the Lady Liberty. That's a thing. We just need more of that. I mean, I know we haven't gotten into, like, the other modes yet. But it just felt like there wasn't enough or, like, I don't know, maybe we're getting ahead of us here. But there's something weird about, like, you do this back and forth between the gun, you know, the run and gun section, the car section, the run and gun section, the car section. Then there's, like, a really long time where you're the Statue of Liberty.

20:18 Like, where I'm, like, to the point where I'm, like, I've forgotten that there's more to this game. And I'm, like, okay, is this just the rest of the game? Like, longer than it took me to do those first, like, whatever, four levels, I'm playing as the Statue of Liberty, it felt like. And then there's just, like, one more regular level after that. And then you're done. It's just, like, wait a minute. Like, what? It just feels not, like, I don't know, like, not designed by, like, a person. It just feels random.

20:59 Let's move on, then, to that ectomobile stage where, you know, it happens several times. But basically, after you finish a ghostbusting scene, you then get to go into the ectomobile and drive to the next place you need to go do some ghostbusting in. And the weird thing about New York City is that it has no traffic whatsoever. But, yes, the manholes are just as bad as you remember them. In fact, they're now man pits.

21:29 Two things that just aren't true, right? Like, right now, I'm confused about the layout of New York City in this game because there's nobody else on the road other than a bunch of ghosts. So maybe the police managed to, like, I don't know, shut down all of traffic. But then also, like, we don't have holes that large. Like, these are gigantic pits. No, you don't remember when Lexington Avenue turned into a giant chasm?

21:51 Yeah, and it's like, I thought it would have just been funnier to do the manhole stuff, right? Like, to just comment on the infrastructure of the city instead of, you know, perfectly timing yourself onto these turbo pads that give you just enough boost so that when you jump, you perfectly cross these gaps. It feels like this went kind of zany where the ghost busting stages stayed more grounded in a weird way. Yeah, I don't really know what... I get that, you know, driving around the city is something that they needed to put in here. It's just, like, it's too iconic, I guess, if these two games are anything to go by.

22:32 Anyway, so I get that that needed to be there, but I don't know what made them go this route with making it this outlandish because these are very hard levels, too. Like, this is almost like Battletoads on the jet skis in the sewers hard where I actually, like, got stuck several times because there were just the pitfalls I just couldn't jump over. Well, yeah, there's some, like, issues with... Not issues, but, like, you have to be very precise with the timing for those jumps, especially when there's, like, a speed boost that you need, then a jump, then a very small platform to land on with another speed boost that you also need to complete, like, more of the jump.

23:16 So it's, like, you don't have really a lot of time to know that's coming or to process it before you have to do it. So, like, that was, like, a little bit challenging. But the fact that you could slow the car down made it a little more palatable, and I kind of liked the outlandishness. And I will say that I personally had not saying that I loved the driving section, but had more fun with this by far than the run and gun sections. I don't know how you guys felt. It's a lot more straightforward. I kind of agree with that.

23:50 It definitely was just more difficult in my eyes. But, because, yeah, there's a lot going on. You have to navigate the screen itself, and then you have to manage the enemies that are popping up everywhere, also the obstacles, also the pitfalls.

24:09 Both of these modes of play are incredibly chaotic, and everything is out to kill you. So, yeah, it's pretty unforgiving. Yeah, but the pace of play in the Ectomobile is completely jarring to the ghostbusting, where you had, like, it's up to you to get to the end, right? Now, instead, you're on rails, and it's scrolling pretty fast, and your turbo stuff is only going to make it faster, but it's necessary to get the turbo stuff. Right, yeah. And you have to get through here. Yeah. If you're not going fast enough, you're not going to progress.

24:46 Right. So, there's just a, and it doesn't feel good to stop, either. But, you know, obviously on purpose, because it's not supposed to be rewarded, but it, like, doesn't feel good in the sense of, like, it completely kills any sort of cool moment you were having with the game of being in control of the Ectomobile in a way that I don't think really works in the game's favor. Because it's one thing to, like, basically, in order to have fun with this stage, you have to play it perfectly. And I think that's an issue.

25:14 It's okay to make mistakes, right? Like, usually that's why there's health bars in games. It's like, you get hit once, you're not dead. You get hit a few times, now it's like you pay the price. It's like, with the Ectomobile stage, it's just frustrating that something that comes down to basically reflexes and not necessarily memorization. It's not like a Battletoads level of memorization, but, like, you know, you're doing this once, you feel good about it. Don't forget, you still got to do it, like, five more times. A movie tie-in should not be Ninja Gaiden.

25:56 All right, so after the Ectomobile, now we get back to the ghost busting. We do that for a little bit, and then, as Joe mentioned, the game completely changes into a Statue of Liberty Galaga shmup, where you control the Statue of Liberty and you shoot, I'm going to guess they're like little balls of fire from the torch, out at the ghosts that don't, I don't know, they don't really look like ghosts to me. They look like seagulls.

26:26 Yeah. Yeah, some of the ghosts that we've been, you know, in the ghost busting stages, they look like slimes, and that's fine, because we know that those are characters in the Ghostbusters universe. And then in the Ectomobile stage, they just look like the kind that, like, you put the sheet over the head. Yeah. And that's fine, too, because that's, like, stereotypical ghost. But this is, you know, these are... These are will-o-wisps.

26:49 Seagulls, they're dolphins, they're... I think they look like fish, yeah, they look like something like that. Right. Fish with sheets over their head. With a PH? Yes. And it just keeps happening, too. Like, they keep spawning, you keep shooting your fireballs at them, and it just... I like explaining, like, enemies populating the screen, like, and attacking you. It's like, this keeps happening. It keeps happening for a long time. Yeah. For a little bit of context, like, I don't remember. It felt really, really long to me. But right now, as usual, I'm watching a playthrough while we discuss. And if I scrub to the beginning of actual gameplay, to the first... Through the first four levels, that takes, like, less than five minutes.

27:38 Then this stage, which doesn't change, like, it's... Like, there's no, like, interruption. It's just, like, this straight thing is, like, almost ten minutes. That's insane. More than double... More than double the first four stages. So that's why, like, when I'm playing, it takes me longer to do some of the other stages. And, like, you know, maybe this is on rails, so maybe it doesn't take longer. But I'm like, is this the game now? Like, did we forget about the rest of the game? It just felt so disproportionate.

28:03 And then, like, suddenly to go back after this to, like, one more level. It's fine, but it's just weird. Did they run out of time? Did they have to, like, release this when the movie came out? When did... Did this come out at the same time as the movie? No, actually, that's what I was going to mention next, Sean. So that's funny. We can go into it.

28:21 You know, it's funny that we're even critiquing this game at all on, like, the kind of nuance level that it probably didn't even get from its own makers. Because this is a movie tie-in game, right? It's like, you make these kind of things just to get people to go see the movie and, you know, buy the merchandise. Right. It's like, people don't care, like, as much as we are trying to care about it. So you do have to remember that it was probably just successful for the fact that it actually was more faithful to Ghostbusters than the first one, right? Like, so it's got that going forward, and that was probably enough to be successful. But I feel like we can get away with it because they missed the deadline, and it didn't come out until the next year.

29:01 The movie came out in June of 89. The game didn't come out until April of 1990. And that's not some weird thing where, like, it came out in Japan first. Like, no, this never came out in Japan, this game. So they just, they missed the window. And so now we can treat them under the critical lens because it's not the shameless movie tie-in to just get you to buy tickets to go see the movie like Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man 1, the video game was, where that game came out, like, three days before the movie actually came out. And I saw the ending in the game before I saw it in the movie theater. The second time I mentioned that on the podcast.

29:39 I guess what I'm assuming is they were making the game, and then they ran out of time, and they just decided to, like, copy-paste however long the original Detour of Liberty section was over and over until it was a respectable amount of time to play a video game from start to finish for rental. Yeah. Because I was actually going to ask before what you just said, that, like, if this was an arcade game, because it feels like it could get away with it more because, like, probably a lot of people wouldn't finish it with their, like, one or two quarter tries, and it's like, but, like, because it feels so short or something, you know? But it sounds like it's not. So it does feel, like, very...

30:19 Yeah, like, they stretched this out deliberately just to, like, give it a little more length. Like, well, what's funny is Activision also, who made this game, worked on a computer version that did make it to computers in 1989, and it's not, like, the NES is just the port of that. That's, like, a completely different game where, like, you're doing, like, third person over the shoulder zapping ghosts with the proton packs, and then, like, you're in the lab using your mouse to, like, click on things.

30:55 There's a crafting system, yeah. Yeah, there is a cash-on-hand thing where you have to know how much money you have and get phone calls and answer them to then collect more money, to collect jobs to make more money. And basically, as you're zapping the ghosts, that's your money. Like, those are the points. Like, the longer you zap the ghosts.

31:14 Really hard to explain, but... Yeah. Yeah, there's also, like, some suggested nudity in the game. Hell yeah. There's a lot of stuff going on, but there still is a moment, which is... Oh, this is weird. This is weird. Sorry. I know it sounds like I'm playing the game, but I'm just looking at it. And there is a moment where you do control the Statue of Liberty on your, let's say, what did this game came out for? It came out for the Amiga, right? So you're playing on your Amiga, and you're controlling the Statue of Liberty, but it has this first-person view where you're looking down at just the Statue of Liberty's feet,

31:57 okay? Oh. And they're moving, and you're controlling the feet as they move, trying not to, like, step on the cars of New York City and everything. But the way you're controlling the Statue of Liberty is via an NES controller. So clearly, like, at one point, they were thinking that this version was going to be on the NES, right? Yeah. Hmm. That's pretty wild, yeah. It's so blatant, it's crazy, but, like, I can't state enough, they're two very different games for just the sole fact that, like, at the end of this game, you actually do fight Vigo. Instead of just seeing him every once in a while, like... Seeing his head bounce by in levels and stuff. Off-center, like, I guess, on a poster?

33:04 Back to reality on the NES game. After you defeat all that Statue of Liberty nonsense, you have to play through, um, the final level as each Ghostbuster individually four times, okay? So you have to complete the same exact level four times. They don't have anything that makes them unique. Why did... Were they, like, playing Lookout? Like, okay, you go first, and if the coast is clear, like, then we'll come up? Like, why don't they just all go together? I guess because then that's no different than the first game where they were all, like,

33:37 slowly trudging upstairs to get to the Stay Puft Marshmallow. Now it's like, okay, we can move faster if we go alone. I really don't know how to explain it. Padding for time. Yeah, I would say that lends, uh, credibility to that theory that they're just stretching it. And, um, there is no boss fight in the final level. So literally, as long as you get to the end of the stage four times with all four Ghostbusters, you will just see them defeat Vigo via cutscene, and that's great. Did I lose you, Mike? Nope, that's it. That's it. Oh. It's great.

34:15 Isn't that just great? Don't you love it? Like, wouldn't you like to get to the end of any game, and the boss that you've been, like, fighting, you know, like, working towards the whole time just gets defeated off camera? Yeah. Then you don't have to do the work. Yeah. I want to say there's probably a lot of modern games that do that, too.

34:32 Um, I can't think of them off the top of my head, but that feels like a very of-the-moment complaint. No, there are games like Fable 2, where, like, you can- Fable 2, okay. No, no, no. You can just shoot the, you know, like, the main bad guy is, like, someone that you can just take a sniper and shoot from far away and kill, and then, like, that's it. And that's great, in my opinion.

34:53 Like, that's fine, because it's like you're interacting with it. You're still taking him down. He's not this all-power- Yeah, you made a choice. Yeah, you made a choice to do that. Yeah, this is literally, like, you didn't do anything interesting to get to the end of the game, but the game decided the game's over, and so they'll just show you how it ends. There's that clock in the, like, bottom right-hand side of the screen, and it does move throughout the game, but it's not, like, it's not interactive, right? Like, there's no time limit on the game to interact with the whole, like, you know, get

35:27 to me before midnight, or else I'll awaken, and my curse will take over New York City, or whatever. Like- Is it maybe just actually a tracker of how far through the game you are? No, that's what I'm saying, right. There's no, like, interactivity from it, from a standpoint of, like, hurry up, like, clock's ticking. Yeah, like, you can't be late. It's just, like, if you step forward, you're moving the clock forward, pretty much. Or, I feel like it could be that, or somebody mentioned, I didn't even notice this, that spider that pushes you forward during the side-scrolling levels.

36:02 With the inclusion of that, plus the fact that the car levels are an auto-scroller, even though you can change your speed, and the fact that the Thetc of Liberty levels are an auto-scroller, that, like, maybe it is ticking the time away, but it's also literally impossible to get there slower, because the game doesn't let you go that slow. Yeah, I think that's exactly what's happening. I just think, um, I, when I see that clock, I feel like I'm playing Back to the Future instead of Ghostbusters. Well, there's no Doc Brown here, just like there isn't in Back to the Future, so. There you go. Say no more.

36:38 On the sequels and spinoff side, uh, there is another Ghostbusters 2 on the NES. Um, it's called New Ghostbusters 2. Oh. Oh, no. And it was made, it was made by Hal Labs. We love Hal. Um. They like to gamble.

36:55 They, um, yeah, yeah. They will not release it in North America, though, because it will be too confusing. So we won't play it at all on the main show, but maybe look for it as a Bytes episode sometime. Maybe. Yeah, that sounds like a great Bytes candidate. Yeah, and if you don't know what Bytes are, those are our other little small Patreon show that we do once a month. Patreon.com slash NostalgiaToJoin. Just $5, you got it.

37:18 But, New Ghostbusters 2, it's worth talking about for a moment. Just the idea that they had to call it New Ghostbusters 2. Like, New Ghostbusters isn't, like, some kind of animated show or something, like, some kind of spinoff working thing. They're literally just saying, like, this is the new Ghostbusters 2 video game. And I think that, um, maybe that speaks to public reception of Ghostbusters 2 at the time.

37:46 Isn't there a, isn't there, like, a new Super Mario Brothers? There is. So they, so we should sue, we should, for Activision, we should sue New Super Mario Brothers for stealing it. Huh. Any other ideas where they could have called it, though, to let you know that it's Ghostbusters 2, but not? Ghostbusters 2 redux, uh, the real, uh, Valdo. Sorry, Valdez. What's his name? Uh, Vigo? Vigo. Valdez, did you say? Yeah. I like that. Um, yeah, I don't know what I would have done here. Uh, Ghostbusters 2 real?

38:27 Um, who knows? Joe, any, uh? I don't know. You could do, like, you could do, like, a joke, like, Ghostbusters 2, the movie, the game, or something like that. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ghostbusters 2, the movie, the game. Uh, Ghostbusters 2, um, sorry, new Ghostbusters 2 would come out on Game Boy, though, so that would be how it gets over to North America. However, the two games are not the same. The Game Boy version is different than the NES version, so even that is still, like, you, you know, if you didn't like Ghostbusters 1 and you didn't like Ghostbusters 2, maybe it's time to check out new Ghostbusters 2 for Nintendo's final attempt at putting a Ghostbusters game to, uh, their 8-bit console.

39:06 And that would also make it our final chance to get a Ghostbusters game on the Essential Games list. Ghostbusters 2, believe it or not, is a step in the right direction, uh, for this franchise. I do think that, uh, while I appreciated the uniqueness of what the original Ghostbusters game was putting down when we played it in, like, 2021, that was because it was 2021 and we had been playing a lot of games that could have been like Ghostbusters 2, so instead we got this weird franchise simulator thing with some odd takes.

39:47 And, uh, you know, that's refreshing for us on the podcast. People were playing every NES game. But I, I realized that fans were probably disappointed. And it's also just not that, it's not that great of a game. Uh, unique spin, but not fun by any means.

40:01 Ghostbusters 2, I don't know if it got funner. Uh, I know that's not a word, don't worry. Uh, but Ghostbusters 2 definitely became more faithful to what the Ghostbusters experience was. And so I feel like a lot of people who bought the game with that in mind wouldn't have been disappointed. But we don't go on, like, especially for the Essential Games list portion, we don't go by, like, what the Times would have said, right? Like, oh, this is, this could be essential because people weren't disappointed. Like, that's a terrible pitch anyway.

40:31 But definitely in 2023, with all the other great NES action side-scrolling games that we've played, Ghostbusters 2 is not up there by any means. And so it will not be getting my vote. Joe? Yeah, so I'll say that I think that I give Ghostbusters 2 a lot of people who an A for the effort or the, or the passion, you know? Like, that opening cutscene is fun. It's a blast. You know, you got those messages coming up and everything. You've got, you've got, like, during the game, that clock, I didn't even know. I kept looking at the clock and I just didn't ever wonder what it was for. So we talked about it here, but, like, that's like, that's like a detail that isn't needed that, like, was added in. And, like, it looks, the game looks really good.

41:14 There's also these, like, interesting, they, like, focus on the physics and we didn't mention, but when you put down the, uh, the ghost trap thing, whatever that is, the Roomba, whatever, you can also, like, kick it away. Just, like, unnecessarily, but you could trap in a ghost and then kick it away and it slides off screen. Like, just cool.

41:33 Um, so I will give it an A for effort and I'll give it probably an F for gameplay. Maybe, maybe a D at best, but, like, it is just actually not fun. Like, they did not pull that part off at all, but it's like, it's this weird disparity where it's like, why does it look like they put so much work into this and it's, and it's just not a fun game. So, uh, definitely not on the essential games list. It's like, it's like fun to watch a playthrough of somebody who's really good at it. It looks like, wow, this, this game would be fun. But as soon as you pick up a controller, you're like, no, it is not.

42:07 Sean. Yeah, I'm going to agree with Joe here, uh, regarding the, the way that they incorporated the gizmos and gadgets. Um, I think that that's where all the development time left. Like, I can't get off of this idea that they just spent too much time on one thing and that's why they just had to sort of drag these other parts along. Um, because yeah, using, using the gizmos and gadgets is fun or at least like it's a cool

43:05 concept. Iron Man Stewart super off-road. Uh, guys, tell me a little bit about Ivan Stewart. Uh, he's a Sagittarius. Also super at off-roading. Great. Um, but also if, you know, uh, just to tease a little further for games that maybe, not that Ivan doesn't have a shot, but just some other games that you should be looking forward to. We're going to be playing Snake's Revenge, the, um, unofficial, uh, non-Kojima approved sequel to Metal Gear. We'll be playing Super C, the follow-up to Contra, basically Super Contra. I don't know why they call it Super C, but, um, I, I just go by what they call it. Very rude. Final Fantasy. Anybody ever heard of it?

43:57 Elder Scrolls, right? Yeah. And. Definitely. Immediately after Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden 2, The Dark Sword of Chaos. Um, so that's going to be a good back-to-back. So look, you might look ahead and say, oh man, they got games like Cabal and Boulder Dash and Rocket Ranger and Silkworm. And it's like, yeah, sure, but we also got games like Castlevania 3, Dragon Warrior 2, Journey to Silas. Like, we're going to have a great time. I'm glad that you think so, Mike. We'll be right back.