298 · Ivan "Ironman" Stewart's Super Off Road

• If you like fast action this game is high-gear competition!
• NES Longplay
• Manual
• That was a quote from Ivan Stewart on the back of the box
• The back of the box also says First 4-player Simultaneous Action which is not true so who knows if he even said that
  • The manual clarifies its the first time 4 people can race together on an NES
• Tradewest has a certain belief about celebrity attribution
  • Ivan Stewart’s Super Off Road
  • Magic Johnsons Fast Break
  • John Elways Quarterback
• Off-Road sports
  • DIRT games
• Simple controls, but is it effective?
• Driving in Isometric
  • RC Pro AM
  • It’s actually not as loose or slippery as it could be
• Win Money from winning races and track bonuses
  • It’s actually pretty easy to win big provided you make money early on and spend it correctly
• Upgrading with the shop
  • Nitro Fuel
  • Shocks
  • Tires
  • Acceleration
  • Top Speed
• Win a life in first place, lose a life in last place
• Unique game over system
  • Keep your car and upgrades but lose all money and points
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • ARCADE EXPANSION - The Track Pack, released in 1989, is an add-on board for arcade units that contains eight brand new tracks: Shortcut, Cutoff Pass, Pig Bog, Rio Trio, Leapin' Lizards, Redoubt About, Boulder Hill, and Volcano Valley. It also features the brand new ability for players to choose between either the regular truck or the dune buggy, both computer generated by John Morgan; both vehicles have different characteristics accordingly and add a new element to the game.
  • Super Off Road: The Baja
    • This arcade racing game is made specifically for the SNES and uses its Mode 7 hardware for a 3D racing experience with a 3rd person perspective.
    • Baja Blast
  • The Super NES version was notable for prominently featuring the Toyota brand; the name and logo were displayed on various tracks and pre-race music was inspired by the "I love what you do for me Toyota" jingle that was used by the company's marketing campaign at the time of the game's release. This version also lacked any licensing or reference to Ivan Stewart, replacing him instead with the late Mickey Thompson in the gray truck (primarily without approval from Danny Thompson). The NES version does have the Toyota label on its cartridge art, but otherwise the ad is not present.
  • n 1997, an arcade sequel, Off Road Challenge, was released, which again adopted the third-person 3D driving view, and was ported to the Nintendo 64 in 1998.
  • The second sequel, Offroad Thunder, was released in arcades in 1999, but not ported to consoles until the release of Midway Arcade Treasures 3 in 2005.
• EGL
• Next week - Phantom Fighter
• NEStalgia Byte - SWEET HOME

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Ivan Iron Man Stewart Super Off-Road. If you like fast action, this game is high gear competition.

00:24 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. And yes, that was the back of the box, but it was also an alleged quote from Ivan Stewart himself. The, if you like fast action, this game is high gear competition, which if he actually, forget about if he played the game or not, if he said that, that's pretty cool.

00:52 That would be really cool. Like I would, I would want that. You think he said that like outside of the context of this game, he was just talking about something and they quoted him for the game? Yeah. He was just talking about off-road racing and he, and then they were like, cool, this would work for the game. Oh, okay. I thought maybe he was talking about like Chinese checkers or something or like Monopoly.

01:10 No, it would be, I mean, I think it would be really weird to ask like your, your cover athlete or whatever to like write the copy, but maybe he just really wanted to. Yeah. Maybe he's also like thinking about his career after off-road racing and thinks that a cushy marketing job might be where it's at. I, that might've been what happened. Who knows? The back of the box also says that this is the first four player simultaneous action game, which is not true. So who knows if he even said that quote, because we can't even trust the back of the box to, you know, tell kids the truth.

01:43 So is this game actually about super off-road racing or are they lying about that too? It is definitely about off-road racing, whether it's super or not, I guess is what the essential games list is for later on.

01:56 But, uh, just to clarify on the four player simultaneous action, the back of the box lies to you and you buy the game based on that assumption of like, wow, the first time four players, even though there's probably a few four player NES games at this point. But the manual then clarifies that it's the first time four people can race together on an NES. Ah, I see. But you'd have to buy the game, open it up, read the manual. Something that I mean, like how many, how often if we play 10 games, how many times you're reading the manual? I used to read it all, but.

02:31 But like as a kid, if it was a game I was excited for reading that manual was on the way home from blockbuster was great. Wait, so you're telling me, Mike, that if you, you bought this game and they claimed that it was the first time, but it wasn't, but they still did what they promised. You would be, you'd be upset. Like, oh, this isn't the first time. I thought you were going to say like, no, you technically can't play four players. And then I'd be upset.

02:56 Yeah. It's all about just validity here. Okay. I'm holding them. I'm fact checking them. Uh, yes, it's true that it one, it doesn't matter because you're still getting four player action, which is great. And then number two, Joe, you mentioned that, uh, if it's a game you're excited for, you would have looked forward to reading the manual.

03:14 I don't know if I would have read the manual for, even if I got this game for this kind of game, you know, like a racing game. I feel like this is just kind of something that like you just turn on your drive a couple of laps. You hope you get first place. You turn it off. You revisit it in a week.

03:30 Yeah. And also like, we've had some cool manuals, but, but I feel like, you know, I grew up more in a time where manuals were like there for you to enjoy. Yeah. They're part of the packaging. Yeah. A lot of the, these manuals we've seen on the NES are literally like instructions. So maybe it wasn't as exciting for, for some of these things to read, like press the B button to do this on the car ride home.

03:53 This game was published by Trade West. And the only reason I bring that up so early is because there's a certain commonality in Trade West games that I think that their marketing team has a certain belief as well about celebrity attribution. So we have played Ivan Stewart's. Are they Al Unser? They are not Al Unser, but they are Magic Johnson's Fast Break, which we played earlier this month. And then they're also John Elway's quarterback. Oh. The funny thing about all these is that, you know, these games, specifically Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road, I can't confirm about Magic Johnson's Fast Break.

04:29 You know, these were arcade games that didn't have celebrity attribution, but to bring them home, they needed the extra oomph, you know, like, well, this game would never sell if it was just off-road racing. We need Ivan Iron Man Stewart behind the wheel. I'd buy anything with Ivan, with Ivan Iron Man Stewart's name on it. Are you guys more familiar with Ivan Stewart or Al Unser? They both sound made up to me. Yeah. Well, who has the cooler name? Ivan. I don't know. There's something about Unser. Like, it just sounds so, like, salt of the earth that I appreciate that one more. Yeah, it's just that he's got Iron Man in the middle of it.

05:10 Now, if it was Al Iron Man Unser Jr., that's perfect. Now, Trade West was the publisher, but Rare is the developer, and Rare already made a isometric racing game on the NES, and it was called RC Pro-Am, and a few of us voted for it to be on the Essential Games list, but not a majority. So it does not live on the Essential Games list. But are you surprised to find that out? Were you thinking about RC Pro-Am at all while you were playing this game? Oh, 100%. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense that they would, I guess, they would hire the people that did the game that was like this to make a game like this.

05:49 Because I still have fond memories of RC Pro-Am, and this very much feels like that with, you know, key differences. And without being too obvious about the title itself being called Super Off-Road, there is a difference between, you know, kart racers, you know, things on a track, whether it's NASCAR or F1 or Mario Kart, right? Like, there's a certain kind of expected experience on a track versus the off-road sports games. I think about, you know, I never played any of these 8 or 16-bit ones, but the Dirt series of games.

06:26 That's a very hard racing game if you come from the kind of Gran Turismo world of things. Cars drive incredibly different on dirt than they do on a track. And so I'm just wondering, like, does off-roading excite you more than, you know, maybe the more competitive NASCAR F1 style racing? Or is it more of a trade-off where you're like, well, this isn't the kind of racing I get excited about or that the majority of the public is interested in. So it's kind of just a niche category. I mean, me personally, who is not really into racing of any kind in, like, the real world, I think off-roading sounds cooler to me. So, like, NASCAR, again, I could be totally wrong here, but it feels like it's just more about purely about speed.

07:16 And this off-roading feels like it's a little more about, like, navigation and terrain. Obviously terrain, but, like, in navigation, like, taking these hills, taking these potholes, these jumps, and, you know, like, it's maybe not necessarily as much about, like, just how fast can you go. Yeah, I'd say that, you know, the Gran Turismo series and, like, the simulation racing games, they're just a bit too... I mean, I still like those games, but they are much more, like, sanitized, and there isn't even, like, a damage model half the time. And so it just sort of feels like you are literally, like, racing toy cars sometimes.

08:00 But I appreciate the games that try and step out the bounds of just straight motorsport, whether it is more of, like, a rally or off-road situation or going more fantastical and have it be ridiculous street racing. Like, I like it when a racing game has more of a hook than, like, we have every car. Right, right. And I think, similarly, it's like, if ESPN put on an F1 race, like, I'm more inclined to watch that just because of the high competitive level.

08:35 Whereas if they put on the off-road racing, there's just something feels lo-fi about it. There's not... The stakes aren't quite there for me, and I wouldn't tune in. But in video games, racing is racing. Like, for me, super off-road and RC Pro-Am and, you know, if it was racing with jet skis on water, it's like, they're all the same kind of thing. It's like, you're driving a vehicle from the start to the finish line, and, yeah, it's totally different how it controls or whatever, but that's not the selling point. The selling point is the race itself. Would you play a running video game?

09:11 Yeah, I mean, I said track and field was a great game. We were just hitting A and B on that one, and I thought it was fun. Oh, okay. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, as soon as you said that, that's what I thought. I was like, I know he's going to go track and field here. But I do... I don't know. I do think that, like, yes, obviously, it's a racing... Like, racing is racing.

09:30 But there's a difference to, like, the difficulty of the racing being this, like, maneuverability and dealing with the, like, obstacles on the road, as opposed to, like, you have a largely clear space, and the difficulty is, like, how can you go faster than the other guy? Like, it does feel like a different type of sport. And anyone who knows anything about NASCAR or any sort of racing is probably, like, cringing at how little I seem to know. But, like, that's just, like, my layman's view of it. Well, Joe, I think you're spot on, though, about, especially for this 8-bit interpretation of off-road racing,

10:07 there's only so much that they can make to have off-road racing translate onto the NES, right? The dirt rally games are crazy simulation-style games that I genuinely can't get a hand on. Like, I can complete the tutorials, but throw me into those actual races, and I suck. But on the NES game, like, you know, super off-road, I was having a good time, and it wasn't fair, it wasn't that challenging.

10:29 But the whole challenge that they've created around the game is how hard it is to control the cars in the dirt, in this isometric view where turning is everything and making sure that you don't ram into other cars to slow down and stuff becomes the key to victory. I think that they approached off-road racing, specifically with 8-bit in mind, the best way they could have. Yeah, no, I agree. So I actually have some history with this franchise where when I was a Super NES player when I was, like, you know, seven,

11:08 I had Super Off-Road the Baja, which is a much more, like, typical nowadays racing game where it's, you know, behind the car and you're just going straight, kinda, but there's, like, turns and it's sort of like faux 3D.

11:26 And the terrain is still very much part of the game, but because in this game specifically, they're trying to put an entire track onto one screen, the terrain is much more, it's much more exaggerated, and they kinda made me feel while I was playing that this is the first racing game that I've played in which it feels like I'm crashing the entire time. Like, I'm just always in the, I'm in the process of wrecking my vehicle the entire time I'm playing. So I think they did a really good job, you know, putting that feeling together.

12:02 Yeah, I mean, I agree, and I think that the control scheme adds to that a lot, too, because it is like RC Pro-Am in which turning right will turn your vehicle to its right, no matter which way you're facing, which is the only way I think you can really do it from this kind of view, but it does take a moment to get used to that. Like, and in RC Pro-Am, for better or for worse, in RC Pro-Am, there was a little more context to that, because it's like, you're controlling an RC car. Yeah, you're always looking down at it. Yeah, it's how it feels to control, remote control a car. But like, this is like, yes, you're controlling this real car, but still from this third-person, like, over-world view.

12:46 And I'm not saying that, like, makes a big deal that, like, there's, like, this cognitive dissonance that doesn't exist in RC Pro-Am because of that, like, little bit of plot, but it did, it did just, it gave context to, like, oh, this is why this is so difficult in RC Pro-Am, this is why it feels weird, or this is like, this was more apparent to me that it feels weird because of a technical limitation, or not even technical, like, just because of a... Design choice, yeah. Yeah, limitation based on their design, yeah.

13:20 And there are some major differences between RC Pro-Am and Super Off-Road, but I think Sean mentioned the biggest one, the one that is kind of a love-it-or-hate-it feature, and that is that in RC Pro-Am, you only see, you know, what you're currently driving on and maybe, like, five feet ahead, you know? They have arrows guiding you along so that you can anticipate the turns and everything, but if I recall correctly, that was one of my complaints, was that the speed at which you drive and the view at which they're giving you, there isn't really a lot of ability to anticipate, especially with the arrows, the diagonals weren't perfect, they didn't draw, like, right angles,

14:00 instead they had diagonal arrows, so you had to just kind of anticipate quickly. Basically, in Super Off-Road, the entire track is presented to you at all times, and it's a really small view. So, yeah, you were playing with remote control cars in RC Pro-Am, but in Super Off-Road, it's like you're watching from, like, the nosebleeds in the stadium of what could be, like, you know, after this, the monster truck rally goes on, you know? Exactly. And I think, for me, this was actually a pro to see the entire stage, to see where everyone is.

14:34 It's definitely great to know that you're, like, if you're in second and the guy in first is really far away, now might be a great time for a boost to try to catch up, or to say, like, well, second place gives me enough cash that I'll just be content with that, you know? Whereas in RC Pro-Am, I feel like I didn't have all that information in front of me. Yeah, this is sort of like they take the mini-map in the corner of any typical racing game these days and just blow it up to be the entire game.

15:04 Because, you know, it's really just giving you that information, but now there's little mounds of dirt that you can jump off of now. But is it too small to make controlling the car satisfying? Are you doing maybe your turns are too round or you're driving too wild because of how small your car is on these maps? That's just a question. I'm not accusing the game of anything. I'd actually say that the size of the actual vehicles on the screen, I was pretty surprised by the amount of different variations of angles and just different states that the vehicle can be in,

15:49 which I think is half the battle here. Like, that's sort of how you're giving the information of how you're driving. is, like, if you're moving at a certain angle, but they only drew so many angles that the car can look like it's in, then it's going to feel wrong and you're probably going to make a lot of mistakes because you think you're going in a certain direction, but you're not. Whereas I think that there's actually a lot of information being given to you here. I liked the feel of this game. I sort of did too, like, despite what I initially thought I would feel, because it is all so small and so zoomed out that you do lose a lot of the, like, illusion of speed you would get otherwise.

16:35 And I guess I was surprised at the times where driving in this game was actually very exciting because it doesn't, on paper, look like it would be very exciting at all. It feels like you're going very slow because you're so far out. And, like, yes, you've got these obstacles, but they're so small. They don't feel like, oh, I got a huge jump off of this. It just, you just see, like, it's like you're seeing, yeah, like, it's like you're seeing that mini-map. It's like you're seeing, like, a diagram or a chart of how much air you just got. You know what I mean? Like, it's a little, like, boring-ified.

17:08 But, I mean, I will also say that, like, I watched some YouTube videos after playing too where things got even more exciting that it never happened for me because I'm just not good enough at this game. But, like, the excitement comes from the, like, built-in feeling of, like, I need to catch up to that guy. I need to watch out for this thing.

17:26 And, like, you see the danger even if it doesn't, like, appear as exciting on screen. So, like, I guess I'm kind of giving a pro and a con at the same time. Like, it does not look as fast, but I feel like they found ways to, like, make it still feel urgent and fast-paced. And the tracks have not only variety in the way that they're laid out or even the intricacies of the crisscross and having to know exactly, like, which path you have to follow.

17:55 Like, you can't just drive around. If there's a semicircle and then a full circle that you have to drive within, you can't just cut around the corner and go back to the starting point. It won't count as a full lap. There's plenty of intricacies like that and pits and hills and stuff like that. But I feel like in terms of the actual driving in isometric,

18:17 it's actually not as loose or slippery as it could be knowing what it might be like to drive a car in dirt. I feel like that got lost in the translation. Yes, it's kind of crazy. You know, like, your car behaves crazy on the jumps and hitting the pitfalls. And when it used the boosts and hits into a wall, like, it spins out. But I feel like there's no real punishment for going top speed on dirt and doing, like, a tight turn as there could be in a driving game. And maybe that's for the best on the NES.

18:51 But it definitely loses, you know, some of its, I guess, simulation would be the word there. But even just some of its authenticity with that in mind. Yeah, I mean, I get what you mean. Like, it never feels like you're sort of peeling out from, that your wheels are losing traction or anything like that. You're just always, like, you just have terrible suspension. Just feels like you have terrible suspension. And anything you hit is just going to make you fly out in some other direction. But, yeah, it doesn't really feel like dirt. It just feels like bad pavement.

19:26 Yeah, I mean, I almost feel like it maybe feels worse than that. Where sometimes, like, when you're turning, it just feels very analytical. Like, suddenly, you're just like, click, click, click, click. I've turned over three degrees. I've turned over, like, whatever. Three units of...

19:45 Of turn. Instead of, like, on the straightaways, when you're actually, like, interacting with the obstacles on the ground, it feels much more wild. But, yeah, the whole turning thing, it feels like, oh, now it is this perfect curve. This perfect Bézier curve or whatever that I'm turning on. Yeah, it feels very calculated. Which could be good or bad. I don't know. Yeah, and I'm not... I mean, I don't know. I guess I'm just echoing that, like, I don't feel the, like, slip of being on dirt, like you guys are saying. The main mode of this game, the only mode of this game, it does lack a track, what do you call those, like, time trials. It doesn't have any of that.

20:33 Instead, you just select the number of players and then you enter this career mode of sorts where you start off with the qualifying races and continue to move on through. I mean, like, I feel like it's, like, I think it tops out at 99 or something like that, but don't quote me on that. I did, like, 15.

20:50 Yeah. But basically, the idea is that you and four of your friends, we'll just talk through the whole mode as if it's you and four friends, sign up for which country you want to represent and everything. And you start the game with zero cash and go right into the first qualifying race. You then win money from both finding it on the track, which is a little, like, unnecessary in my opinion, and then also just winning the race, the natural way to win money in a game. But the prizes are distributed between first, second, third, and fourth. So you don't have to win first place to win cash to then upgrade your car.

21:32 And it's actually pretty easy to win big later on, provided you just make any kind of semblance of money early on and spend it, I'm going to say correctly, but I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I'm just like, yeah, tires sound good. Like, let's build tires. Like, yeah. I just, like, kept buying all the nitro because that was the most, the quickest path to satisfaction.

21:56 I don't know. Yeah, no, it'll definitely boost you all the way to first place. And since you can stock up on those, too, I'm sure that also cops out at around 99 or whatever. Like, you can have so many of those, might as well stock up on them. It's essentially, like, the other ones are stat points, right? So it's like your tires are this good. Your shocks are this good. Your acceleration is this good. And things don't cost that much. It's kind of weird.

22:20 So I think that there is a problem here where it's not like you can't win the first race. It's not like your car sucks so bad that you're finishing in fourth. And now it's like, well, kid, you just got to continue to persevere, get that cash, and continue to build up this car. And maybe one day you'll finish in first place. It's like, no, you probably finish in second on the first race, second again on the second race, and now your car's awesome, and you've learned a little bit about the driving. So now you're going to first.

22:47 And I'm not saying you're going to get first every time, but you're winning enough cash between first and second place that you're able to continue to just get a better and better car with little repercussions in terms of setbacks from the actual game, especially if you're playing with just three other friends, because then it's just the skill of your friends and what they're adding on to their cars versus what you're adding on to your cars, not necessarily any kind of computer enhancement.

23:14 Yeah, one thing that I did appreciate about this game is it's very egalitarian. Like, whether or not you finish in first or fourth, like, yeah, you get some money to improve, but they also, there are identical brunette, there's leggy brunettes that they'll give you whether you're on first place in the podium or on fourth place in the podium. Like, they do not care if you won or not. They're always there. It just feels like the game is trying to tell you, like, you know, you're doing okay, you know? Yeah, you should get, like, the guy who works the counter at the local 7-Eleven if you're in fourth place.

24:02 Because 7-Eleven sometimes have gas stations. That was where I was going with the car. That's true. There are gas stations that are safe. Right. No, Sean, you're right. And look, to be honest, it only enhances, I guess, like, the longevity of the game so that if you do suck at it, eventually you'll just have a good enough car that you can persevere on. And it doesn't do the Al Unser thing where you can just play as Ivan Stewart and have a totally maxed-out car like you could with Al Unser. But I'm just saying, like, it don't take that long. I feel like by race 6 or 7, if you finished in first place the majority of times, you could have a fully, almost fully decked-out car.

24:41 Yeah. Like, I really, I appreciated this, like, kind of customize your car boost. You know, it gives you, like, incentive to do well. And it makes it feel like you're building your car, you know, as you go. You're building your car. But it all sort of felt, to me, a little arbitrary. It felt like I'm, you know, picking things, not necessarily noticing the, like, the specific benefits. But then, yeah, it just feels like it's a little quick to max out or to just get really good. And I don't know, just something about it. I can't really put my finger on something about it.

25:15 I just didn't feel, like, that satisfaction of, like, oh, I chose this and now this is my car and I'm really getting to experience, like, the consequence of my choice, the consequence, the result of my choice. I was definitely being cheeky earlier about the brunette thing. What really is happening here, it's a very shallow system that's just, I think this was just there grasping at straws to give it any kind of value outside of playing with friends.

25:40 And I don't really think that, like, you need this upgrade system if you're playing with friends. It's just, you know, you're going to have various levels of skill among you instead of you versus three identical computers that are tuned to be harder or easier to race against. I think that's really all it's there for is to feel some kind of progression when you're playing alone.

26:06 But taking a page from Gran Turismo or even a Final Fantasy game, it's like the first tire upgrade is 40,000. Great. And 40,000 is not that hard to get. But in Gran Turismo, right, if you want the fully, if you want the best tires, they cost more than the $40,000. They're going to, you know, like, that's not true, but work with the analogy here. You just buy all the tires and you'll have better tires.

26:34 Right, right. And in Final Fantasy games, my point was that, like, you know, you buy the sword for, like, $10. And then eventually, you know, you get the broadsword for $500. And then you get the, you know, the Masamune eventually for $5,000, right? It's like things scale up. Whereas in this game, tires are just always $40,000. And that's just an inconsequential amount of money.

27:01 I'll look up the exact stat, but I'm pretty sure you win, like, $200,000 for first place. Like, that's crazy. But there's also, like, between all the different stats, there's, what, like, maybe 50? Not 50. Maybe, like, 30 dots between them? I don't know the actual number. I think it's, like, 8. It's low. Between all the different stats, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That might add up to 30, yeah. Maybe you're not always going to dump that all into tires. So the amount of budget that you give to tires isn't going to be $200,000. Yeah, but the most expensive thing is top speed at $100,000. And you can upgrade that twice just by winning a race, a single race. Like, you know, then your max top speed happens by race 6 of 99.

27:47 I guess what I'm saying is it's, like, Joe's right that you needed to feel it more. Like, the top speed should almost be like, oh, now it's too fast. Like, I shouldn't be going this fast. Like, I need to balance this out or whatever. But then we would have probably ragged on the game for that a little bit, right? That, like, oh, these cars start out and they just busted up pieces of shit where, like, my tire kept popping while I was driving the race because I don't have the good tires.

28:15 I mean, this podcast is mostly just grass is greener. Like, that's all we really are. Complainers. But I think that maybe, like, what it needed was some, like, reason to do one instead of the other. Some, like, risk-reward kind of, like, yeah, I can upgrade my speed, but it's going to be at the expense of my maneuverability. I guess it just feels like there's really kind of, yes, there's a lot of different combinations of how you can get to, like, your end. But it's really one end result, which is to be, like, just completely maxed out and everything.

28:50 Yeah. I mean, from level to level, at least, like, early on, there is naturally, when you have a system like this, going to be a cost-benefit analysis into what you upgrade. But, yeah, at the end of the day, you will have a generically awesome car. You know, similarly to how Bethesda has changed their leveling systems.

29:16 At the end of the day, you can't be a character that is unique. It's always going to be a god. Sorry. Sorry, Joe. Sorry. No, no. But, like, you know what, though? Like, that is something, because, you know, I guess you're referencing that I am very into Starfield, even though it's very controversial whether or not it's good or not. But I'm loving it. But I haven't gotten far enough in the game to, like, get to a point where it's like, okay, I've maxed out everything I wanted for my specific build, and now I just do all the other stuff.

29:46 And I don't know how I'm going to feel about that. When it's like, yeah, when I'm, like, level 90, and it's like I have everything, I'm like, well, now I don't really feel like my character anymore. I feel like, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to love that.

29:59 But, I mean, I see what you're saying, that, like, yeah, for the duration of the game until you get to that point, you are customizing it and being unique. But, like, if you get to that point very early out of a lot of races, then maybe it'll, I don't know, I am starting to see that, like, it feels like maybe they realize that just having a race over and over and over again for 90 races needs something else. Maybe this was tacked on without, like, as much thought, and maybe that's why it feels like you can kind of cheat it a little bit.

30:36 But, I mean, for me, again, someone who doesn't play, like, is not that into racing games. When I do play a racing game, the fun of it, to me, is, like, oddly in between the races when I'm, like, got to prepare for my next race. Yeah, tweaking and stuff. That sort of, yeah, yeah, and, like, really the one that jumps to mind, to really show you how much of a not racing game guy I am, the one that really jumps to mind is, like, the Star Wars pod racer for N64.

31:00 Like, I remember doing that a lot, and, like, that was, like, my favorite part of the game was, like, what can I add to my pod? What can I, you know, like, get ready for that? I'm, like, role-playing. Like, all right, I'm the driver getting ready for my next race, you know.

31:19 So, the gist is, the driving and the races themselves, great. The mode may be leaving a bit to be desired. But, I will say that the, and I don't speak for everybody, but the system for the mode, like, the way that it divvies out, like, the pros and cons of first place and last place is a pretty unique system. Forget about just in a racing game, but just in general in a four-player competitive kind of game where if you finish in first, you gain an extra life. And everybody starts the game with three lives. And I know that's kind of weird in a racing game, yeah, to have lives. But follow me, follow me, Sean.

31:56 In last place, you still get some money, but you lose a life. And so, if you finish in last place, let's say, all three times to start or eventually just run out of lives, you have a game over system where you don't, like, exit for good. It's not like now three friends have fun and you have to wait for them to lose their lives or whatever. They still need that fourth player, which they could fill in with a computer. Or you can choose to keep your car and all your upgrades, too, but you just lose all your money and points that you had beforehand.

32:31 So, I feel like it's a very unique game over system that, again, is just like the upgrade system, not punishing or intricate enough. But if we're just talking about four friends getting together, I still think that this is a very amicable solution where nobody's really, like, too beat up. And, yeah, the guy who finished enough times in last that he now ran out of lives probably is going to run out of lives again quickly. But at least he gets to keep his car upgrades.

33:03 On the sequels and spinoff side, Sean did mention Super Off-Road, The Baja. Sean, do you have any other comments about that specific Super Nintendo game you played on Super Nintendo? Yeah, Super Nintendo, I'll say that even though it has changed perspective and it's much more visually impressive, it also just feels like you're crashing for the entire game. Which, you know, I apparently like, so take that as you will. So, I imagine it's using that Mode 7 hardware that the Super Nintendo had to do, like, a 3D effect? I would imagine.

33:37 I feel like it's a bit more advanced than Mario Kart. It's funny, you know, we're obviously, like, more in the weeds of video gaming than casual people are. And I feel like people who listen to this also, if you're going back to listen to NES games, then you're cool with it. But, like, it's weird that we all know what Mode 7 means and looks like.

34:00 Like, that's just, it's such a generic thing. It's not like they called it, like, the Super Nintendo 3D effect or something. They didn't brand it, they just called Mode 7 and everybody's like, yeah, I know what that looks like. Like, was it even, like, consumer facing being like, we're using Mode 7? Or was it just like, wow, cool, 3D, you know? No, I think it's now popular because, like, learning about the technology is kind of niche popular now.

34:25 Right. Like, I just know it through Final Fantasy VI. Like, that's, like, my understanding of it. And then I, like, learned about other stuff later. But, like, I wasn't sure if it was, like, if they, like, advertised, like, all right, kids, check out Mode 7 on the Super Nintendo. Because I think Mode 1 is just, like, an image.

34:43 No, no, it's definitely not on the back of the box. Yeah, it's not on the back of the box for sure. And then one other comment about Super Offer the Baja. I just can't stop thinking about Baja Blast, that Mountain Dew drink, when I hear the Baja. But that's a me problem, right? You're not thinking of Baja Blast, are you? No, I mean, it's because Mountain Dew has pretty much laid claim to the entire, like, California Baja by giving a soda that name. So it's their fault. You're just a victim of it. Can I tell you guys something?

35:16 Baja Blast? It's fine. No, come on. It's just fine. All right, we gotta take it away. Take it away. I don't understand. You can cut this out if you're afraid that we're gonna, like, lose listeners or something, but I don't understand. We just need to start the Essential Games list right now, or I'm gonna get very angry.

35:34 It's, uh, Baja Blast, for those of you that don't know, is a Taco Bell exclusive, I feel like. That was, like, not anymore. I think, yeah, just recently it's gone into the public domain. Maybe, like, 20. Public domain? They're making a Baja Blast horror film now. Like, Winnie the Pooh.

35:51 That's very good, Joe. I appreciate that. Um, yeah, it seems like it's all the way back in 2004, though. I wouldn't have thought that it was that old. Um, I wonder, did Code Red come before or after Baja Blast? Code Red over Baja Blast any day of the week. He wasn't saying a qualitative thing. He was asking which came first. I know, I'm just saying, like, that you just mentioned Code Red. I'm like, now there's a good Mountain Dew that deserves the hype of the Baja Blast kits. You're the guy saying Code Red all day every week, and I'm in this, uh, Mad Men meme. I'm Don Draper saying I don't think about you at all. Like, I just do not think about Code Red at all.

36:28 Like, that's just not a good Mountain Dew flavor. I did wonder when we started this podcast how long it would take for us to debate Mountain Dew flavors and really just live up to the stereotype. And I'm just surprised that it took this long. Yeah. I feel like we're, I don't know about you guys. Don't drink a lot of Mountain Dew. Yeah, I don't. I don't know the last time I had one, to be honest. The Mountain Dew wiki says that Code Red was the, uh, first ever permanent flavor other than the original Mountain Dew, uh, to be added to the lineup. So, I'm kind of surprised to find out that Baja Blast was only recently added as a permanent flavor considering that things like Voltage and Whiteout are considered permanent flavors.

37:13 Voltage? Come on. I don't know what that means. I remember one called Livewire. Yeah, that's still a permanent flavor in there. Oh, that still exists? Uh, let's see. In the United States, yep, it's been around since 2003 to the present. Wow. It's, um, it's got artificial orange flavor in it. Livewire. Hell yeah.

37:36 All right. Back to Super Off-Road, if you guys don't mind. Is that cool? If you must. Okay. On the sequels and spinoff side, the, uh, arcade version of Super Off-Road, which again was just called Super Off-Road, had a arcade expansion track pack. Long before Rock Band and Guitar Hero were doing their track packs, uh, Super Off-Road did it, in 1989, it is a add-on board for the arcade units that contained eight brand new tracks. Uh, it also featured the ability to, uh, brand new abilities for players to choose between either a regular truck or a dune buggy.

38:15 Oh. Uh-oh. Now, you had to, as an individual, buy this board and bring it to whatever arcade you ended up at, right? And then you'd take it home as you have to. Yeah, you could do that, I guess, but definitely not. Uh, the arcade owner would install this board because Super Off-Road was just making so many quarters for them that they were like, I gotta go get the track pack.

38:40 That's what he sounds like. Super Off-Road the Baja, back to that for a second, Sean, didn't have Ivan Stewart on it. It didn't. It was just called Super Off-Road the Baja, so I was confused. You know what it had all over it, though? Uh, I don't know.

38:54 The Toyota frame? Valvoline? Oh. No, Toyota. That makes sense. I don't quite remember that, but it tracks. Apparently, the name and logo were displayed all over the tracks, and then the pre-race music was inspired by the I Love What You Do For Me Toyota jingle that was used by the company's marketing campaign at the time of the game's release. That's pretty crazy. Didn't know that. And in 1997, an arcade sequel Off-Road Challenge was released, and this time it is a third-person 3D driving view like, I guess, Super Off-Road the Baja was. And it was eventually ported to the Nintendo 64 in 1998, and then it got a second sequel for the Off-Road Challenge called Off-Road Thunder in 1999.

39:48 And then that came to consoles under the Midway Arcade Treasures series, but not until 2005. Did you guys ever buy any of those things, like for collections of arcade games for your PS2 or Xbox? No. I think I might have had one. I don't know if I bought it. Like, maybe my mom found that at a garage sale or something, and was like, oh, 180 video games. You'll love this. And then I played like three of them or something, and then moved on.

40:18 But yeah, never really went out of my way for them. It's funny because the arcade treasures to me are usually like, oh, it's going to have Pac-Man and Frogger, and it's going to have stuff that I could always play any time. It's not hard to get access to Pac-Man. But to find out that an arcade game made in 1999 was then released part of a compilation pack. That actually does sound like, yeah, I wouldn't have bought it at the time, but now I'm kind of intrigued. It's not easy to play those arcade games if you don't have MAME.

40:50 So that would have been a legitimate way to experience Off-Road Thunder and probably a bunch of other obscure shit that came out in the late 90s in arcades. Where were you playing arcade games in the late 90s? You weren't going to Dave & Buster's yet, right, guys? I had a few local arcades still.

41:10 Oh, interesting. To be honest, I didn't really play a lot of actual arcade games, you know, really in my youth. Joe, you might not have played a lot of arcade games, but you have done something a lot, and that is the Essential Games List. You've done better.

41:30 All right, so let's start with the RC Pro-Am versus Super Off-Road. I think I'm giving it to Super Off-Road, which sounds kind of crazy. Um, it's definitely easier. Easier to drive this car, easier to, uh, tell what's going on, easier to win. So that's a huge plus.

41:50 Uh, you know, racing games in general are not something... This is my problem with the F-Zero series. I don't want to start in 30th and then finish in, like, 14th. Like, that doesn't feel good. 14th? You want to be, like, first, second, or third. You need to be on the podium. Mario Kart's got it right where you have, like, eight other people that you go up against. Now it's 12. And you're, you're, you know, I think it's the Mario Kart 64 is the one where, like, if you finish in fourth overall, they do an extended cutscene where your character just drives to a corner while a celebration is going on and then bombs themselves. Like, that's how bad it feels to get fourth place.

42:32 That's how it feels in every game. So I'm kind of glad that, uh, this was a game I could win at without being ridiculously good at either. That said, it's a pretty shallow game too. And it is a little disappointing that, uh, within, like, 15 minutes I felt like I had experienced the game and was now like, well, better get some people together so we can all play this game and have a good time. And this seems like it's a perfectly great multiplayer game, the kind of NES game that I would want to own just in case I did have friends over and be like, yeah, let's just do a couple rounds of Super Offer. We're not going to play all 99 tracks or whatever.

43:10 But just being like a, a novelty, a multiplayer game isn't enough for me to put it on the essential games list. And so it's staying off on my vote. What about you, Sean? Yeah, I mean, I, I try not to use it as a measuring stick in this podcast, but there really just is not enough content in this game. And I really do hate the term content when using, uh, using that way for a game this old where that's not really a thing.

43:39 And like game length isn't something that, that is a, uh, uh, an equivalence for game quality, but it's really just, you get one screen of a track and then you get like a different arrangement and then just that ad nauseum still fun to do, but I, I can't say that that it's an essential, uh, formula. Joe, uh, if we are talking about our, uh, opinion, RC pro am versus this game, I give mine to RC pro am actually.

44:10 I think I just, for me, I just prefer, you know, the, you had some power ups and you had some like weapons and stuff in that. And that was, that, that added a little more excitement to me, but I mean, I see this game. I agree with you, Mike, that like, this is like a good game to just like have when you have friends over it. Like it's a racing game and it functions. So you're going to have a good time if you're playing with friends.

44:32 Um, but I think that overall it is sort of basic, sort of shallow, a little, I'd want more out of it to be like, in order for me to tell people, no, you got to play this game. I mean a lot more. So definitely not on my essential games list. All right. That's three no's with a, um, overwhelmingly positive 30 minutes leading up to it. So that's pretty funny. Um, but you know, that's how the show can go. We could throw you guys for a loop. Sometimes we can put games that, uh, you will demand for the following three years that they should still be on the essential games list and they just don't wind up there. And other times games that you don't see coming, I'm looking at you, Terra Cresta, uh, wind up on the essential games list without much talk.

45:17 Yeah. I didn't talk about it at all. Yeah. Well, you have to play it. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Like, I want, I want to get your thoughts on that, but, uh, please play that. I mean, I know you play every game before we do our best of, but that's like three years from now. So please play it before that time. Yeah. Um, and also Joe, I wanted to resurrect, uh, actually, no, it wasn't you who said this. It was Sean earlier about the, um, uh, running video game.

45:43 And like, would I enjoy a game that was about racing like track and field or cross country or whatever. And I just wanted to say that any kid that has ever participated in their high school level or junior high level, uh, cross country or track and field has thought about this on a mandatory run at one point or another of how to make a good running video game. And like, what would you do? What would the controller be like? And how would it work? Like, would it just be like a rhythm game where you have to tap the right buttons? Would it be like quop?

46:12 Yeah. I think it'd be quop. Yeah. And actually I've decided that it's none of those things that the only good, whether it's track and field, cross country, marathon running, the only good racing game that you could get for that kind of running on your feet would be some kind of it's football manager, but you're the coach of, uh, like, you know, you're the coach of like Nike or Adidas or, you know, like one of those teams and you have to recruit new players or, you know, you could be at the college level. You could be at the pro level.

46:44 Uh, the Olympic level is like the, you know, the dream and you have to, uh, manage these people's schedules, their rest time, their, their problems. And you just have to be the coach. And it's more like a, you know, game where there's spreadsheets and grids and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. That's the, that's like the real, that's the real version of the fun way to do that.

47:07 I could see a, uh, I could see a, a funny Mario cart esque running game where you're just runners and you pick up power ups, you pick up banana peels and you shoot like guns at each other. I don't know. Joe, you need, Joe, you need Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games in your life. Oh, is that, is that how that goes? I never actually like, I don't think it sounds like you're just describing Grand Theft Auto. Yeah. I was going to say, I don't think there's guns. But Grand Theft Auto is not a race. It's not a foot race. You can. It's like a cart racing game, but on foot.

47:39 Okay. Yeah. Actually, you know, why have they never put in like a, you can sign up for like a 5k in Grand Theft Auto five. That should be like, you know, in Grand Theft Auto six, if I can't, you know, can't join my local turkey trot and just like show up 20 minutes late, get the participatory medal and then just eat all the shit I want for the rest of the day. Then is it really Grand Theft Auto six? Well, you'd have to kill everybody that participated before or after. Why do you think I'm showing up 20 minutes late? Oh. I had to get my wanted level back down.

48:11 Next week, we're playing Phantom Fighter and the nostalgia bite for this month is Sweet Home, which if you don't know, is kind of the predecessor to the Resident Evil series. And it was basically a Sean demand and also a Discord demand. So I demanded it like a year ago. So everybody's demanding it. And I'm like, yeah, I like great franchises. So let's check out Sweet Home. I don't know how well you can make Resident Evil on the NES, but we'll find out. We'll find out.

49:02 See ya.