299 · Phantom Fighter

• Wild Chinese phantoms, Kyonshies, are on the loose, wreaking havoc on 8 villages
• NES Longplay
• Manual
• Based on the 1985 Hong Kong movie, "Mr. Vampire", Phantom Fighter puts the player in the role of a Chinese warrior who walks with your pupil through several Chinese towns taken by phantoms.
• Manual has the plot - Those WACKY chinese Phantoms are on the loose again
• Text speeds - Fast is for those who don’t care at all about the plot
• Combat
  • Why are there so many frames for punching and kicking
    • Some games require patience to get going. But this was a real test
  • Manual - Remember hit and run away is the best way to beat Kyonshies
  • Only 4 items
  • The school teaching you new moves
• Exploring the villages
  • Houses, temples, graveyards, school
• Defeating the Kyonshies
  • After you defeat all in the village you get items, and you can get those items again if you go back but you have to fight them all again
  • Many different types
• Answering Guard Questions
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • NONE
• EGL
• Next week - EPISODE 300 Pin*Bot
• NEStalgia Byte - Honoo no Doukyuuji: Dodge Danpei
  • (HOE-NO NO MICHI-KOJI DODGE DEN-PIE)

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Phantom Fighter! Wild Chinese phantoms, Kyonshi's, are on the loose, wreaking havoc on eight villages!

00:24 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. You would not know this, it would be impossible to know this, but Phantom Fighter is one of those movie tie-in video games. Oh my god, really? But not for a movie released in America. Well, I figured that. Yes. It is based on the 1985 Hong Kong movie, Mr. Vampire. Wow. Because of all the vampires in this game. Well, yeah, that makes sense, because I had...

01:06 I had such a different reaction. I wouldn't have thought that this was a part of any kind of mainstream media. Right, right. Well, the movie must have taken them a long time to make because they had to keep giving the actors time to just hop everywhere. Um... That's a reference to the fact that all the enemies just hop. They don't walk.

01:29 They don't really do anything else. They just hop at you. Yeah. I think they doubled down on hopping to be the next big thing that kids were going to love. I mean, it seems spooky. Maybe that's what Keonchis are known for, but I don't know anything about these Chinese phantoms. Do you guys have any... No. ...masters in Chinese folklore? Not that I remember, no. I just want to say, like, I didn't read the manual. I didn't know that there was a movie. Um... I don't even think that it's mentioned on, like, the little stub of a Wikipedia article there is for this game. But I thought that this was just a piece of, like, outsider art. Like, the... The... All... Just completely insulated from any...

02:16 Uh... Any, like, trends in the gaming space at this time. Uh... Really not knowing the rules about how things are supposed to go in games like these. It... The whole... The concept of the enemies and how they acted. And you have, like, a sidekick, and I'm not sure who he's supposed to be. I don't know who you're supposed to be. If you're supposed to be, like, a Sherlock kind of guy with the long, like, jacket that also knows karate. I... There were so many questions that I had about this game that I guess I could have looked up. You gotta watch the movie. I gotta watch the movie, I guess, now. Yeah, you're like the ninth doctor.

02:55 Yeah. The war doctor, now. Yeah, I thought it was weird, too, because... Oh, usually when you see a movie tie-in game, usually, not always, it's... It plays it safe. It, like, it uses a formula, a tried-and-true formula.

03:09 This, for better or for worse, is being, like, ambitious in trying to do, like, its own thing, where it's, like, it's got that kind of Prince of Persia-style control, where you, like, pressing forward starts, like, a whole, like, animation loop, and it's got this, like... You're doing this, like, side-scroller on what apparently is, I guess, an overworld map, and then you go into, like, buildings with little sort of mini boss battles, and then

03:33 leave. It's, like... It's not like any game we've ever played before, which is kind of interesting for our movie tie-in. I mean, I guess we had Ghostbusters, which also really, like, made up its own rules. And Jaws. And Jaws, that's true. Good point. But, like, I guess maybe I'm more conditioned to this from, like, games that I grew up with, but, like, I'm used to, like, movie tie-in games in, like, the 90s and 2000s being, like,

03:56 kind of, like, the most generic gameplay with, like, a movie tie-in skin over it. Yeah. And it's interesting, though, that because I didn't know that this was a movie tie-in at all, so this is even... These aren't even the thoughts that I was having coming into this discussion.

04:14 Sean, you're not wrong, though, that it is kind of, like, weirdly made in a vacuum because the developer, MarioNet, um, is... has never made an NES game before, and I don't know if they'll make another one. In my current list of, like, games we're gonna be playing up until 1991, they're not listed again. The publisher is FCI, and we've played some interesting games from them in the past, but the developer is just kind of, like, is it weird? Were they just, like, yeah, it'd be neat to make a game based off this movie that came out five years ago? Was he... What was he developing before, or is this the first time we've seen his name ever?

04:51 Uh, MarioNet's not a person. Um, it's a company, but I... No, he knows Vic Takai. Oh, yeah, gotcha. Um, I could not tell you, because when you search for MarioNet, you're not gonna get the video game developer. You're gonna get the puppets.

05:09 Marionette. Okay, I thought you were saying a person's name, MarioNet. That's what I thought you were saying, too. Oh, I gotcha, that's funny. Marionette. Yeah. It's Marionette. Does that make you feel better? It makes you feel better.

05:23 I don't know if the tone of the game gave this off or whatever, but the manual has, like, clearly this game was, especially if that's referencing a Hong Kong movie that none of us knew, like, it was made on the Famicom and then, like, came over, and the guys who, like, made the manual for the North American audience, the story has, like, a completely different tone in this manual. It starts with, those wacky Chinese phantoms are on the loose again. It's like, I did not get that vibe from the game at all.

05:56 Like, the game has, like, people giving you, like, you know, a lot of story details and, like, you know, like, explaining the Keon Cheese and then it's just like, dang it, like, you know, those wacky Chinese phantoms escape Chinese jail. It's like, stop it. It's not what happened. Well, you know, I mean, the wacky part, like, one of you guys said earlier, like, oh, they are kind of spooky the way they hop. I couldn't disagree more. They're very ridiculous looking. That was a joke.

06:26 But, like, they're so silly looking. They just, they hop with their arms out, like, like, you would think, like, a cartoon zombie. Arms out, they hop around, like, I don't know. Well, I don't think of a cartoon zombie hopping anywhere. I guess the only way that it can be spooky is just that it's very uncanny valley, in a way. I mean, which is, it's, you can't do, like, an NES uncanny valley because it's so far outside of the valley in one direction. But, you know what I mean. It's like, they're acting weird.

06:57 Yeah. It's also spooky in the, like, in the, like, realistic sense where it's like, something's not scary to look at, but it's, like, scary because of how it can, you know, like, ever play, um, oh, what is it called? Perfection. The board game Perfection that you put all the pieces in before it pops up.

07:15 Yeah. Like, that's not scary. Yeah, you have to put in different shapes, right? Yeah, yeah. That's not scary inherently, but it is, like, it does have this, like, scariness because you're, like, there's anxiety. And I guess if I'm trying to stretch what would make this scary is, like, I have some anxiety about the fact that I have no idea when I'm going to take damage or not. Like, if my kick is going to land or if their weird outstretched hands are just going to somehow hurt me. And, like, that gives me some anxiety. I'm like, I gotta be, play it really safe, but it's not, like, not the traditional. That's just playing a video game.

07:48 It is, but it's, like, it's, like, more so, I guess, because it's, like, I don't feel like I have that much control over it. Or at least I don't understand in what way I have control over when I'm taking damage. In some instances that I'm, like, I don't know. I'm really trying to stretch what could be spooky about this game. So, bear with me. But, yeah, like, I guess it's just the anxiety of, like, not knowing how to actually avoid. Like, sometimes when I do this, my kick lands. Other times I get hit.

08:18 That's spooky. I don't know. Someone else talk. Yeah. Yeah, I could talk because what's funny is, you know, going back to just the story or the plot or whatever, you know, they are setting out to be an ambitious, story-driven game in the sense that it's a side-scrolling action game where you have to go to eight villages. It's not an open world in that sense. You start at Village 1. You have to do everything in Village 1 to move over to Village 2. And, yes, they really are just called Village 1, Village 2. They could have probably given them names to make them feel more lived in, but whatever. And then inside that village, like, you're free to roam around and visit, like, you know, houses, temples, graveyards, the school.

09:02 And, you know, do that in any order you please. And, obviously, like, there's probably a good order or whatever. But it's not really, like, it's not a life simulator in that regard. You're there. No, it's just nonlinear. Right. You're just there to take out these kionchis that you have to find.

09:18 And they're not hard to find. It's not like you're, like, where are these damn fandoms? Like, they're everywhere. Don't worry. And once you take them all out, then you can move to the next village. But along the way, there's a lot of, like, story-driven stuff going on from both the people that you run into giving you, like, information that doesn't feel like it's necessary. But then you find out you're going to be quizzed on it by the guards. And that's not great. Or there's, like, information that you might need to know how to, like, do new moves or,

09:49 you know, deal with a certain enemy. And that's why I'm making my first recommendation for anybody who even tries to check out this game. Don't do what I did and start Phantom Fighter at the fastest tech speed. Because it does let you choose your tech speed. But fast is... It's the first thing it lets you choose. Right. And fast is for those who don't care at all about the plot or have memorized it. Because it just scrolls right through it so fast that you just get the very last thing before you push the A button to continue. You don't even get a chance to read what happens next.

10:21 One thing, you mentioned the quizzing. And I imagine you mean, like, getting to a part in the game that I did not, where it actually quizzes you on things about the game itself. But I, like, you know, you go to actually learn these moves. You have to go to places where they will ask you trivia questions. But it's just general trivia, like, in our world. Like, a question that I was asked in order to then learn a move was, who created Ultima? And I'm like, okay, in a vacuum, that... Okay, maybe Ultima is also a thing in this game's world. And, like, it's the name of, like, a wizard. It's like, no, it's just Lord British. Like, that is the answer.

11:04 Or, like, how many states are there on the American... How many stars are on the American flag? Like, oh, there's just answers in the real world. It's a very strange, like, fourth wall break there. Yeah. Yeah, and I wonder if that, like... Does that tie into the movie somehow? Yeah, they're, like, weird, like... Is bar trivia a part of it? Contemporary trivia, yeah. But that was very weird to me, too. Because when, you know, what you were describing, Mike, like, at least there's, like, stuff you can pay attention to in-game to get it. But this is just, like... I wasn't told when I played this that I'd have to have, like,

11:42 historical knowledge, you know? So, like, that is... So, when I got the Ultima thing, I thought at first, until I, like, read the options, I guess, that, like, that was some piece of lore that I missed. Because Ultima is often used in games or stories. Square games, yeah. Yeah, square games specifically. Anyone play Final Fantasy XVI?

12:06 But the... So, I was, like, wondering what, you know, what that was all about. But then, also, just to back up a little bit to what you were saying, Mike, about how you can kind of... How you have to visit and take out each of these phantoms in order to progress. But you can go in any order. It felt like they missed out on a little bit of, like... I feel like there's two reasons to do this. And maybe there are more, but there's two that I can think of. Where letting you go out of order and having significant differences in your play style because you went out of order is one reason. Or the other reason is, like...

12:50 You can skip over these things. Like, that's what... You can skip over these things, but then when you get to the end of the level, you just can't progress. So, the only reason I can see wanting to skip over something is if it's, like... Again, a risk-reward thing where it's, like... If you skip over it, you might miss out on a power-up that'll help you later. But, like, it doesn't matter. You have to go back and do it later.

13:10 So, I don't really get why they made it, like... Optional to go into each of these areas to fight each of these bosses. If, like, once you get through, like, the 25 of them in the first level... And if you skipped one, it's just gonna be like, Well, you can't move on until you go back and do that one. Like, I don't feel like there was incentive to change it up. So, in a purely mechanical sense, you're right.

13:32 There is no reason for them to do it this way. But, I guess, in a storytelling... Or, I guess, in an immersion sense... Like, it does make sense to have it be houses you have to go into. And there's, like, a hub area that... Just to give it more of a sense of place. And maybe that sense of place is very important to the movie. I don't know. That's grasping... But there's at least, like, the narrative aspect to it, too.

14:01 Yeah. I mean, definitely, there's the narrative aspect. But I guess it's just... Why could... The narrative aspect would be the same if I could not skip a level. If you want to call it a level. But, like, I go past the house and, like... Maybe I should have read the manual. And maybe it's all in there. It's very clear. But, like, I go past the house and I'm like, Oh, cool. I don't have to do all these. I have to decide to do all of these. Then I get to the end and it's like, No, you had to do them. Go back. And that just feels weird to me. It's like, why are you letting me skip things?

14:30 Yeah, I think that having to do them all is the part that I would be hung up on, too. It should be that, like, you need to find a key item. And once you find that key item, it doesn't matter if you've done everything. Because you've got the thing you needed. And, you know, that could be some kind of cool, like, boundary breaking or whatever. Sure. Right? Like, especially because these rooms you go in are quote-unquote levels. I don't think that's really what you'd consider them. But these sections that we're talking about are really not... They're very, very, very cookie cutter. So it's not like, oh, I don't want to do the Mario World 1 level 4.

15:09 I can skip that. But, like, okay, that's a floating side-scrolling thing. It's different. Like, I'm thinking about it. I'll skip this because this is... This is just like, okay, I've done 10 where there's a medium green ghost hopping at me. And I've done 10 where there's a large red ghost hopping at me. And I've done 10 where there's a small blue ghost hopping at me. It's like, there's not a lot of variety in these things to, like, to have any context to, like, what I skipped and why I skipped it. So it's like, it makes me want to skip them because it doesn't feel that different. And, like, but then it just doesn't matter. I don't know what exactly I'm asking for. Or I guess I just want... You want intentionality.

15:45 Yeah, yeah. Which this game doesn't seem to have. If you're going to let me skip it, give me a reason to skip it. And if I have to do them all, just make me do them all. If it's not clear, though... If it's not clear, the game, essentially, we said side-scrolling action game where you enter buildings and stuff. The game really just becomes an updated version of the 1985 game Kung Fu, where you just are going, like, floor to floor fighting. At least in Kung Fu, they give you a couple enemies per room. This is just, you're fighting one Keonji that hops at you slowly in each room. And the door doesn't open until you defeat said Keonji. So, you just have to attack, run, attack, run.

16:25 Which, by the way, is something that the manual actually suggests. The game knows that the only thing worth doing, the only thing that you could do to even beat these Keonjis, is to run up to them, punch them in the face, run away, hope that you don't run into their hop. And then when they land, punch them in the face again and get out of there. It's like, that's not a combat system. But we'll get into combat. No, yeah. We'll get into combat in a second. I did want to, I hate to do this, I have to go back to the guard thing, the questioning.

16:54 Because, unfortunately, guys, we were talking about the same segment. I just didn't get the silly questions that you got about how many stars are on the American flag and the ultimate stuff. I got questions about Keonjis. And it turns out there are a good deal of questions. So, maybe that's how that happened. But my questions were about Keonjis. And remember, I played on the fast tech speed. So, I assumed that they were just telling me these things in the game about, like, you know. Okay. So, look. There was one silly one that was, like, where do Keonjis live? And, like, one of the choices was New Jersey, right? And I was like, okay. Well, obviously not that, right?

17:31 But, nope. You could actually pick that. And you would still get it? Yeah. It's like, is the, there was a few, actually, where you could pick any of the options and not be wrong. There was no, like, two are right, but one is wrong. It was either there's one correct one or all three are correct. And I get that for something, like, now that I'm looking at the list. There was one that was name an FCI video game. It's like, yeah, why would they mention their competition or bother making up a game when they could just tell you three FCI video games that are currently available at your blockbuster for rent, right? Like, it makes sense. But to do, like, a joke answer, like, Keonjis usually live in New Jersey?

18:11 Like, is the joke that, like, the spirits just always live amongst us, like, everywhere in the world? Yeah. I don't know. I would take that as, like, oh, yeah, these, yeah, these spirits don't, aren't tied to any specific location. They can go anywhere. They could live anywhere, you know? Imagine if you're a little kid in New Jersey and you select that answer as a joke and they say yes. Why do we think that all of the, like, haunted characters in America are Americans, right? They might be from anywhere in the world, right? Like, you don't have to stay in China if you're a Chinese ghost.

18:43 That's true. And yet they are always Americans haunting in those, well, I guess I shouldn't say that, right? They're demons, but usually related to, yeah. Same thing. Ha!

19:13 All right. Anyway, moving on, we have to talk about the combat because there's a couple things going on, all right? Like, let's first talk about just why there are so many frames for the animation of punching and kicking. It's, like, there's so many frames in general in the game, so it's not like it all of a sudden becomes extra fluid, but it's just a noticeable, like, time response to, like, what I'm used to for a punch. It's weird to have a game have so much, like, detail in the animation for it to also feel so stiff.

19:49 Because in the, when I first started, it was like, oh, this almost feels like a proto-fighting game. Like, you go into an arena, it's one-on-one, you've got the health bars, you got your punch and your kick button, and I imagine, you know, the direction buttons would come into play for, like, combos or something like that. But then, yeah, what Mike was explaining about the actual combat of it being run up, punch, run away, or, like, you know, get the momentum to run away and then try to slow down and stop and then turn around and punch again, that's basically the fighting, the combat system. And it just, yeah, there's too many things going on for it to feel fluid at all.

20:33 And even when you get your upgrades and you learn these special moves, they're just replacing your normal moves. Like, it's not even, like, a special move that you have to, like, do a combo for or some other button configuration. It's instead of kick once, you kick twice. Right, and I mentioned earlier that it kind of felt like, you know, the original Prince of Persia. And if anyone's played that, like, it does feel similar where it's like, yeah, pressing forward once

21:00 starts, like, a little bit of a long-ish animation for one input where it's like you kind of run a few steps and it's, like, very smooth animation because of it. And I think that works really well for Prince of Persia because Prince of Persia is about a guy running and doing basically parkour.

21:18 This is about the exact opposite. This is about somebody doing, like, fighting in, like, a martial arts, like, one-on-one combat where it's like sharp, quick movements. And to that, it felt like a weird decision to be so fluid and floaty where it's like it's hard to back out of a decision. You know, it's hard to, it's hard to even walk up to the distance away from the enemy you want to be.

21:44 Because it's like you stop and it's like if you're not through the cycle of walking, you're going to keep walking until he, like, slows down, you know, after a minute. And, like, that makes it, that makes it feel, like, it's an impressive and interesting type of movement that is just completely in the wrong game, in my opinion. Yeah, well, whatever relief I felt when first playing this game and fighting the first Kionchi and being like, huh, it's not like every other beat-em-up or action game that uses fists and kicks. It's like, oh, this actually, like, handles a little differently.

22:22 Like, that'll be a nice change of pace. It was immediately discarded when I got to the second Kionchi and realized, like, oh, they're just doing this. Like, this is what I'm up against. Like, it's weird that, like, my moves are kind of, like, neat and interesting for, you know, a limited amount of time, but at least, like, something different in an NES game. And then every enemy proceeds to be the most boring thing I've ever faced, and I'm facing them one at a time. Yeah. And to go, to kind of go back to what I said earlier about, like, the way that they move and attack, like, it, like you said, Mike, like, it feels like you have these specific moves.

22:59 They are, like, so floaty, and, like, they kind of just attack you with their outstretched fingers in this, like, it's hard to explain, but it's, like, the hitboxes are a little confusing, or, like, when they'll hit you is a little confusing. Sometimes they can land, like, right on top of you and not hit you.

23:16 Yeah. And then you move, and then they hit you, and it just feels like, yeah, you have the wrong, you don't, you're not, it doesn't feel like you're equipped to actually fight these people in a way that you're, like, that you're, like, consciously or strategically planning on what you're going to do next. It just feels like, going back to what you said earlier, like, run away, kick before it gets too close. Run away, kick, and I only kick. I don't punch, because punching.

23:38 Well, punching is stupid in this game. Yeah, punching sucks. Yeah, it's not beneficial. You can knock the person back with a good kick. Yeah, and it's the same speed with longer reach, so I don't, I don't see the reason to punch. And I don't think I ever landed a punch in this game.

23:51 You know, I really think I can bury this whole game with one comment here, and this is, this was my, like, big in bold in my notes. And that is that, just given the way that Super Mario Bros. levels are designed, an appropriate placement of a Goomba can be more challenging than any fight in this game. And that is just an enemy that you jump on and stomp, and it can't fight back. And yet, sometimes, you will, like, accidentally touch it and then become Small Mario, or you were Small Mario and you die, and it's like, damn, like, man, that Goomba got me.

24:26 Whereas in this game, nothing gets you unless you let it get you, because you can just run away from it. It's hopping ever so slowly towards you, and then your only options are just to punch and kick on the same flat level as it. There's never, like, a, oh, let's introduce stairs or platforms. Like, they never do that. You can do, like, a jump kick, but there's never a reason to do that. Exactly. But I don't know if I agree with, like, or maybe, you know, it's just me, but I don't know if I agree with the fact that you can't get got by these guys. I feel like I got hit a lot by these guys. Oh, I didn't mean it like that. But go ahead. But I was going to say, like, I didn't mean, like, you're invincible.

25:08 Yeah, there's, like, designed challenge in Mario that is not here. But the challenge here is, like, I don't really understand how close I have to be, how to get that close, and when to attack where I'm going to hit them and they're not going to hit me. There were so many times where I got hit where it was, like, I feel like I just did the exact same thing I did a minute ago where I hit the enemy where it's, like, it's very difficult to time.

25:33 It's game. And it's usually easy to, like, kill a bunch of them in a row, but your health keeps going down, and eventually, like, your health is lower than, you know, because you go into each battle. You got to hope for, like, a good timing for one of those gems. Exactly. And you go into each battle, I don't know if we mentioned this, you go into each battle, you have equal health with every opponent.

25:53 At least maximum health with every opponent. So, like, your health might be down to halfway, and theirs is still at your maximum. And you can hit them a bunch of times, but there are a lot of times where it's, like, you get hit, and it's, like, I don't know how I could have avoided that and tried to hit them. You know, it's, like, if you want to go in for an attack, you're risking getting hit in a way that doesn't feel like you have a ton of agency.

26:13 I'm sure there's technically a way, but it doesn't feel like it feels too specific and, like, timing-based so much more that we can, like, you'd have to think really far ahead in, like, when you wanted to press forward on the D-pad in order to get to the point where you're going to hit them, where I feel like a lot of times it's, like, I just mistimed it, and I just got hit. And that was kind of annoying, too.

26:53 All right, so we covered a lot about the game, but without talking so much about it. So, to recap, you go to these buildings, you find the Kiongis, you get the, sometimes you get, like, a scroll that, as Sean mentioned, you can then, like, learn a new move, but is it really a new move? That's up to, I guess, what you envision a new move to be. I agree. I would expect some kind of cool combo in addition to my punch and kick, not just, like, hey, your punch is stronger now. And I also think, like, just the earnedness of the new move could either just, and not that, like, other NES games do this any better,

27:32 but it's weird that you have to just travel to the school and then just choose your thing. Like, there's no, okay, prove that you learned it, or here, I'll show it to you, and you fight somebody. Like, it's just, like, pick which move you want and then get out of there. Um, there's also items that you can get, but there's only four of them, and the annoying thing about that is that if you did need one of those items, the only way to, like, recollect it is to go back through the building and refight all the Kiongis again to get that item, and I think that that's just, like, not worth it. Just move on with your life.

28:06 After you defeat all the Kiongis in that village, you get to the next village, and so on and so forth. And while there are many different types of Kiongis, um, the manual is so poorly scanned that I can't even read the different names, but just, like, just know that Joe wasn't joking when he was, like, yeah, I fought the mid-sized green one and the large red one, and, like, yeah, there's some that have cool, like, animation effects. There's that gray one that kind of looks like he's moving so fast that there's, like, multiple copies of him.

28:36 But he's still... He's a spooky one. But he still doesn't behave differently, and that's what's weird, right? Like, all these guys, yeah, they've designed different sprites for them, but they don't really do anything? No, absolutely.

28:49 That's... There's just different shapes and sizes of the one behavior, which is arms outstretch and jump in front of you, and sometimes jump backwards. Sometimes they do jump backwards, but you forgot about that. Honestly, that's what turns this around for me, is the backwards jump. Well, wait till you play as Dale.

29:12 Wow, what a reference that no one understands about. Well, actually, I'm gonna keep that one in the episode, because when we get to that game, everybody will understand.

29:21 Dale Earnhardt? No, Dale of Chip and Dale fame. Ah. But, um... He's got fireballs. But, um... The, um... The, uh... The thing is, is, like, the premise could be cool of... Of... You go into each of these things, and you have to face a different phantom.

29:44 If even, like, there were five different types of phantom, not just hopping phantoms. I know there are different types, but they're all very, pretty much the same type. But, like, not just hopping phantoms, but, like, other things where you have to... Like, mini boss battles, where you have to think about, how do I fight this guy, or how do I... But if it's... It's always the same, I just don't get the reason to making these, like, one-on-one battles. If it's, like... It's just the same kind of lame and boring.

30:09 Well, because, Joe, they probably playtested it, and it sucks when there's two of them in the room at the same time. I'm not saying two of them at the same time. I'm saying you go into this one, and I'm like, oh, my God. It's a... It's one where they do this move, and I gotta think about it this way, because it's a different type of enemy than when I go in the next room.

30:24 But, like, I... Like, I didn't really even think about this until right now, but these hopping ghosts literally don't even have any animation, like, other than, like, their leg bending a little bit. Like, it's just, like, they're not actually doing anything but moving towards you in, like, the same motion. No matter what... Which version of it it is, even if it's that... That gray one with, like... That leaves, like, a trail of itself, it's still not doing anything different, where it's, like, I gotta think differently. And that is a giant missed opportunity. So are you guys surprised to find out that there's no sequels and spinoffs?

31:04 For the movie as well, there were no sequels for Mr. Vampire? Oh. Shocked, honestly. Come on. Sean doesn't... Yeah, Sean. That's about the response I expected. Sean logs off. He's done. Yeah. Come on.

31:20 Unbelievable. All right, probably the most important question I'm gonna ask you guys tonight. If you woke up 2 a.m. in your current bed, you're not a child, you're in your bed that you go to sleep in tonight, and you wake up at 2 o'clock in the morning, and there is a Gyeonggi hopping at the end of the room towards you. Is that spooky? Is that scary? Well, okay, hold on.

31:47 Question number one, does he have that weird piece of paper just sort of like taped to his face? Absolutely. Okay. You're referencing the beginning of the game where they have that, it's like a cutscene? Well, that's the beginning of the game, and then it's the same kind of paper that's all over the walls in the levels, and you also get the power-up where you can put the piece of paper on their face and they kind of freeze for a second.

32:10 But yeah, that piece of paper. One, two, yes, I'm scared because there's an intruder in the house. Yeah, I think you've just convinced me that this is scary. If this showed up in my house, it would be scary. But like, that would be the case with almost anything that doesn't belong in my house. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I guess in that sense, it is scary. So, Kionchis are scary, just not necessarily when you can fight back in a video game. Yeah. Yes, that's true. And it would be less scary if my good-for-nothing sidekick would actually come into the house with me instead of waiting outside and asking if I'd like to use the menu. Yeah, now there's something we didn't talk about.

32:59 That is how you access the menu. Is you go to, instead of going forward, you turn to walk out the door you came in and your assistant pokes his head in the door and be like, Oh, sir, like, is there anything I can do for you? Would you like to use any of these items that you don't have?

33:15 And, yeah, like, that's how you open the menu is by, like, going to walk out of the room you're in. Your guy pokes his head in. He has this stuff. And, yeah, it's like you can, there's like three things you can do. And one of them is, like, use items. And it lists out all the possible items, even if you don't have them. And then you select it. It's like, oh, you don't have that item. Like, why did you ask me if I wanted to use it then, assistant?

33:37 And how does he know all the items that exist? Is he in on it? He's probably in on it. I didn't see the ending of the game, but he's probably in on it. You know, I don't think many people saw the end of this game because I'm looking at the long play. Two hours and 13 minutes. And that's not a terribly long NES game, but for this it is. That's a terribly long NES game. For this it is. Like, you know, I'm sure there are, like, you know, RPGs that are way longer. I'm sure Final Fantasy takes that long, if not longer. But, like, a game that's just a side-scroller like this being two hours, like, at the speed run playthrough speed on YouTube.

34:14 That's long. Well, the funny thing is, is that the comment section is the actual revealing part. Is it like, yeah, two hours is long in itself. But the comment section is all like, huh, just when I thought I had seen every NES game. It's like, how did nobody know about this? Like, is it because a nobody made it? Like, FCI wasn't a nobody, so they would have had enough money to market it. But it certainly gives the impression that just like Magic Johnson's Fast Break, that this is another one of those games, maybe like the 90s, just had a, you know, there was too many games coming out that they didn't all go right off the shelves. This feels like something that not a lot of people got their hands on. So we're special.

34:55 All right, now for the real most important question of tonight. And that is, or today actually, because I post these episodes at like two in the morning. So two in the morning is night, right? That's Kionchi time. That's Thursday night, yeah. I think it's technically morning, but I consider it night. Two a.m. Friday is Thursday night, Sean? Yes. We'll talk about that later. Right now, we're going to talk about whether Phantom Fighter is or is not on the Essential Games list.

35:26 No, it's not on the Essential Games list. Come on, you didn't even need to wait for the music to finish to know. We haven't been talking kindly about this game, and I really don't think I need to add anything else here. Sean? If there's one thing you can take away from this episode, it's don't mix your beat-em-up with a momentum-based movement system and forget to program any kind of interaction or attacks with your enemies.

35:50 But yeah, not essential. Joe. So, I know we said a lot of bad things about this game, but I kind of really think that this is... This is a hidden gem. There's some really cool stuff about this game, and I think that... I think it might be essential. And I wish that, Sean, you didn't interrupt me, because I was really going to try to be as serious as possible about that and see if I could get anyone to think that I thought this game was essential. But no, the game is not essential.

36:18 It's... I don't really have anything else to say. It's not essential very, very clearly. It really worked Joe up into a tizzy. Yes. I have plenty to say about the... The... Is... You know, what time it becomes nighttime, or date in morning time versus nighttime. So, hopefully we get back to that soon.

36:37 Next week, we will be recording episode 300 of this podcast, which is just insane. Thank you all for listening for the last 300 weeks. Wow. That's a lot of weeks. Of course, episode 300, we went back in time and moved it so that one of the most important NES games would be episode 300 because we record chronologically. And that is Pinbot. One of, arguably, the most important video games of all time. Right, guys? Pinbot? Piece of media of all time, I'd say. Yep, there you go. I can't wait. Yep. And, you know, we'll have some fun on that episode, but not too much fun, okay? Don't think of it as, like, episode 100.

37:18 Episode 100 was Major League Baseball. Is that, like... Is that an exciting game to have as your 100th episode? Yeah. We had a game called Major League Baseball. That's what it was called, Major League Baseball. It was our 100th episode.

37:34 Do you remember our 200th? Yeah, 200 was... 200, I feel like I'd remember if you told me, it would be like, oh, yeah, that rings a bell. But 100, I don't remember. Okay, yeah. Because it was kind of not, like, super interesting, but then I had my very interesting who said it quiz. Yes, yes. That was fun.

37:54 Just to be clear, the game isn't called, like, MLB or feature... It's Major League Baseball, and it was made by Atlas, the guys who make Persona games. Oh, yeah. You know what? I vaguely remember that being the game we played, but I don't remember what it looked like. Cool. And then if you want to get in on more Nostalgia action, especially, come on, 300 weeks in a row, you guys know we're dedicated. Are you dedicated? Join us on Patreon, patreon.com slash nostalgia. Just a dollar, you get access to the Discord, where you basically find out all the other stuff anyway that the $5 a month people get, but the $5 a month people get a audio...

38:30 Why am I calling it what it isn't? It's a podcast, guys. It's another podcast. An audio show. It's an audio show. It's an audio book, actually. Joe reads... An audio play. Joe reads Japanese books and translates them in real time. Not true. The schoon manual. Yes, over and over. Anybody who's listened to this show by now knows what we do on that $5 a month thing. We're not finding new people who suddenly tune in for Phantom Fighter and are like, huh, I wish I knew what they did or I would have given them $5.

39:02 That would be unfortunate if that wasn't the case, but it's not true. This month's episode... I'm not kidding. When you said Phantom Fighter, I was like, which one was that again? Like, I'm not kidding in my head for a second. It is crazy. It's Phantom Fighter again, forgetting that that is this game we're talking about.

39:16 So, this month's episode of Nostalgia Bites, the show that we do for $5 a month, is Hono no Michikoji Dodge Dempai, which is all Japanese, so thank you very much for that. But it's actually just a dodgeball game on the NES. It's on the Famicom, I should say, NES. But, yeah, we're going to check that out and see how it compares to Super Dodgeball, which we were all fans of, some of us more than others. I think Sean voted that on the Essential Games list. That was me. Great. So, since Joe has a lot of thoughts about nighttime and when it becomes something, and Sean made a pretty declarative statement, join us on the post-show, which happens right after the song, for the remainder of this conversation.

40:24 All right, Joe, let's hear it. Well, all right, I've had this thing before where someone says, like, someone says, like, oh, Thursday at midnight. And the question is always, like, well, do you mean Thursday night? Like, 11.59 on Thursday, then the following minute is Thursday at midnight, which is technically Friday at midnight. And there's this, like, discrepancy of, like, well, wait a minute, is midnight the first moment of the day or the last moment of the day? And the answer is it's absolutely the first moment of the day. That's just the fact of it. Like, it's not, it's not like an interpretation or an appeal. Sure. Like, if you want to be a fogey about it.

41:01 Like, I don't understand why there's ever, why we have two ways of interpreting it. It's just making it confusing. Why doesn't it just, like, Thursday at midnight is literally Thursday at midnight. Because people, when they're awake at midnight, they're coming in, unless you work weird hours at, like, an overnight thing, you work nights,

41:24 that is some of the last moments of your day. No, but it's the first moment of, I mean, yes. But, like, would you say, would you say that, like, 2 a.m., then, if you didn't go to bed, is still, like, Tuesday night and not the beginning of Wednesday night? I would say I probably didn't go to bed until 2 a.m. last night, instead of, I probably didn't go to bed until 2 a.m. this morning. Sure, sure. But if I'm saying meet me at midnight on Thursday, there shouldn't be any confusion. No, but there is, because I wouldn't know what you mean. But there shouldn't be. Because we, then that's my point. I know that there are these two different things, but it just, we should just,

41:57 just all work on what the way it really is. This is like, if I say meet me somewhere Thursday at midnight, that means meet me somewhere Thursday at 12 a.m. Joe, if you, let's make me clearer. If you want. 12 a.m. Thursday is 12 a.m. Thursday. It's not 12 a.m. Wednesday. If you're telling anybody, in regards to anything, let's just all look at it the way it actually is. You might, and then they agree with you, you might solve all world problems. Well, that's what I'm here to do on Nostalgia. Joe, just so I'm clear,

42:30 Thursday at midnight, we're talking about the minute after Wednesday, 11 59 p.m. Yes. Great. I'm right there with you. Right. 100%. Cause that, and I realize, and I totally understand the confusion. And if someone told me that I would be like, I want to make sure I would double check. Cause I would want to make sure that I'm talking about the same thing. I'm just saying it shouldn't be that way. We should just all agree as a human race that the way that it is, is the way that it is. And then we don't, there doesn't ever have to be any discrepancy over what I mean by Thursday at midnight. Okay. So here's my followup question. Sorry to make the podcast an extra hour long with this next question, but is 11 a.m.

43:15 Afternoon? No, no. Can you say, can you say good afternoon at 11? No, no, not afternoon has to be 12 o'clock. Unless you're talking about like good afternoon from yesterday's noon. Right. But so you can't say good afternoon until after 12. Yeah. I, yeah. So the people who have lunch at 1130 are having breakfast. That's bright. That's brunch.

43:40 I mean, look, I think that your meals can be like based on your own schedule, but when it is afternoon ways, no, that's not both ways. It's like, yeah, breakfast is the meal that I eat when I first wake up. Okay. But if I have three meals, if I have three meals back to back to back, it's not breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You know, if I'm having breakfast at 10, lunch at 1130, like, no, that's not how it works. I would say that you could base it on like, okay, yeah, I'm eating an hour after I woke up. That's breakfast. And then like later on. And I, you know, it's like if someone works overnight, it's like, Oh, I woke up and I ate breakfast. You didn't wake up and eat dinner.

44:14 Fine. But if you're saying I woke up and it was morning because I just woke up. No, now you're deciding what the rest of the world's time is like. No, that's a universal thing. And no one is saying that. No one is saying that. Yeah. If you say I woke up and it was, you know, if you say like a little midnight, we're going back to this. So you say midnight on Thursday is, is, let's say that, let's just say you, you woke up in the middle of the night at any time. Does that mean that it has to be.

44:42 But before midnight in the middle of the night, you wake up, but that's the morning Joe. Yeah. But that's not, I mean, I guess if you wanted to be technical, if you wanted to hold me to it, then yeah, you're being pretty technical right now. You did. Yeah. And then in that case, you woke up in the morning. If we're being technical, you know what? If I were to draw my, my opinion to a logical conclusion, that would be the ideal to eventually get to, to be like, Hey, last night. It's like, no, actually this morning. It's like, now we all are on the same page.

45:12 If you wake up at three in the morning. Okay. It knows that says in the morning, right? No one's saying three at night. Okay. Yeah. Nobody says that. Right. If you woke up at three in the morning. But you can wake up in the middle of the night in three in the morning. Sure. Okay. Yes. I agree with that, but don't want to unpack it. If you wake up at three o'clock in the morning to go to the bathroom and then you go back to bed, and then you wake up at six because you have to get ready for work or whatever. Did you just take a three hour nap?

45:46 No, you went back to bed.

45:50 Okay. Because I can tell people are really going to enjoy this. Final question. Probably more than the Phantom Fighter episode. You know, we're mostly doing this to make up for a really weak episode. Final question. When does good afternoon expire? Okay. What is the time? Did you have like a terrible email conversation earlier today? That one is tougher though. I understand like, because good afternoon, of course I wouldn't say good afternoon at 11 o'clock because it's not afternoon, but it's a lot more arbitrary of when you wouldn't say it because it's 429. You know, at 1130, it's still technically afternoon. So like that's a tougher, more arbitrary. It depends on the season.

46:31 That's true. If it's in the middle of the summer, you could say good afternoon up until I'd say like 429. Yeah. Is it like sundown? Is it like how far away from sundown? But if it's 429 in the middle of winter, then you're saying good evening because I am not going to see the sun on my way home.

46:46 And don't make me think that you have a better life than me. And you live in like California and it's always sunny 24 hours a day. Don't do that to me. Say good evening. So I'd say, yeah. Depending on when sun's down, you could say good afternoon. Sean, you just created a whole new question. Is good evening immediately following good afternoon? Yes. Like, so when good afternoon ends, you must say good evening. There's no like weird window where like it's not quite evening, but it's definitely not afternoon. Well, you could just say hello. Right. I guess that's what I'm asking.

47:27 Yeah. I don't think that there's another one. I think it just goes from master afternoon to evening and then goes tonight. Well, no good night. No, good night doesn't work like that. Good night is, is basically goodbye. Okay. There's no, nobody says good night as hello. Like I've said it. I say that to you all the time. You say good night to start our conversations.

47:48 Yeah. I, I've always thought that was weird though. Cause yeah, you're right. Good morning and good evening are like, I'm hoping you're having a good night right now. Okay. No, but you changed it. You just changed everything. Yeah. Good night. How are you doing? Yeah. It's like, no, I would think Joe was, was like trying to tell me that he doesn't want to talk. Yeah. Bye Felicia.

48:10 Look, there's a lot of gray area here. There's a lot of gray area. All I'm saying is to avoid confusion for, for everyone in the world is that 12 AM should always be the beginning of the day because that's what it is. On the calendar. Yes. So if I say meet me at 12 AM on Thursday, you should meet me at 12 AM on Thursday on the calendar, which is what I go by to, to measure my days. You know, it's so funny. We were so close to ending the episode. Like Joe wrapped it up so nicely started over again, but Sean like refused. Sean like refused to have let Joe have the final say. So he just needed to be like, sure. But I will continue to do that.

48:57 Me too. I'll die on this hill. All right. I'll meet you again next week. Mike, let me have the last word. Let it end here, right here, right where I said this. Good night.