354 · Back to the Future Part II & III

• 2 action packed adventures in 1 great game
• Is this a good deal or do you assume its gonna be half assed?
• Gameplay Loop
• Side-scrolling Platformer & Item Collection: The game combines side-scrolling platform mechanics with a puzzle-solving element that involves collecting and using items.
• Time Travel Mechanics: Players must navigate different timelines, which include 1955, 1985, 2015, and an alternate 1985. Time travel plays a crucial role, as players need to correct events to ensure the timeline remains intact.
• Each stage involves retrieving various items that have been scattered through time, and players must use these items in the correct places to fix events in the timeline.
• Key Features of the Game
• Multiple Playable Time Periods: Players get to visit several time periods from the Back to the Future series, each with its own unique visual design and enemies.
• Item Inventory System: Collecting and using the right items at the right locations is crucial to progress in the game. This feature adds a layer of strategy beyond simple platforming.
• Unique Objectives per Level: Unlike many NES platformers that focus on reaching an end goal, this game requires players to fulfill specific objectives, in the form of mini puzzle collecting games
• DELOREAN
  • After finding the remote control to summon the DeLorean, players can time travel between 1955, 1985 and 2015. However, adequate fuel must be collected before being able to time travel using the DeLorean.
• Each time the player time travels a clone of Marty is created in that year which, when touched, will instantly kill the player.
• Some platforms are out of reach in certain areas which need to be accessed to progress through the level. A player can plant an acorn in 1955 and then revisit that same location in 1985 or 2015 where a full-grown tree appears, allowing the player to access the previously unattainable space.
• What Makes It Unique/Different from Other NES Games
• Non-Linear Progression: Players must figure out the correct sequence of actions across different time periods, which sets it apart from the linear design of many NES games.
• Challenging Puzzles Mixed with Platforming: The combination of platforming and item-based puzzle-solving offers a different challenge than purely action-oriented NES titles.
• How Closely It Follows the Movie
• Thank goodness Marty didn’t need to fix all these things
• Frustrating Parts of the Game
• High Difficulty Level: The game is notorious for its unforgiving difficulty, with relentless enemies, strict time limits, and challenging platforming sections.
• Confusing Item Usage: The item-based puzzles can be cryptic, often leaving players unsure about how or where to use certain items. This lack of clarity can lead to a lot of trial and error.
• Repetitive Gameplay: The constant backtracking between time periods can feel monotonous, especially if players don’t solve puzzles quickly.
• Limited Lives & Continues: The game's harsh penalty for failure, including losing all progress upon running out of lives, can make it frustrating for players.
• Other Back to the Future Games
• Back to the Future 4 (NES): Pirate game for China. Just has a BttF 4 logo and then its blaster master
• Back to the Future 2 on Genesis starts off with a hoverboard level that feels like paperboy
• Back to the Future 3 on Genesis starts with Doc riding a horse and dodging every fucking thing in the wild west
• SUPER BttF 2 on Super Famicom gives a chibi look and involves platforming with the hoverboard to defeat enemies. Much kinder than this game.
• Back to the Future: The Game (Telltale Games, 2010-2011): A highly regarded episodic adventure game that serves as a narrative sequel to the movie trilogy, praised for its storytelling and character interactions.

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Back to the Future Part 2 and 3! Two action-packed adventures in one great game!

00:22 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. The game wants you to believe, based on that back of the box, that this is a deal you couldn't possibly pass up. But is this a good deal? Just before you even talk about the game itself, is this a good deal? Or do you assume, because they have now condensed one video game into two movies, do you assume it's going to be half-assed instead? Or are you like, oh, this is going to be two totally different games? Let's be honest. Let's be honest. That the amount of, you know, cultural zeitgeist that two has, it's multiples of what three, I think, you know, at least in modern memory.

01:14 So I think, like, if we're talking about how much of each movie is in this game, I think, like, it's the appropriate ratio. I think I recall Joe being a three apologist. I am a three apologist. I was just about to apologize. But I, um, I do think two is better than three. But I think three is good. And I think that... Yeah, three's good. It was a choice to be like, yeah, we're just going to stay in, like, one time period. It's not related to anything else that's happened in this series so far. And, like, I get why people are upset with that, because you want more of it. But if you go into it and you're, like, you're okay with that, it's a good movie. I was looking for more of the Oedipal stuff.

01:56 Yeah, well, I'll say that. I'll take two and three over one, regardless of that stuff. I just... One is just like, ah, yeah, that's the classic. It's like, you know... That is crazy. One is so much better than two and three. One is, like... But it's the classic. Like, you've seen one so many times. When it comes out, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen this. I want to see what happens next. That I understand.

02:17 It's also, like, again, from my kid brain. Like, if I'm looking at them all, which is a better, more solid, like, just film, I'm sure it's one. But from my kid brain, I'm like, I want to see, like, time travel stuff. Interesting things from time travel. Yeah, seeing Jaws 3D is pretty freaking cool. And you don't really get so much of that. Yeah, right, right. And you see the future. You see an accurate representation of 2015. Yeah. It had the Cubs winning the World Series, but I think, like, a year later or something? Yeah, that's why I can't take the movie seriously. Right, right. They came close.

02:51 And, you know, there's obviously, there's a lot of funny things that came true as a result of Back to the Future Part 2. Like, those Nike self-tying shoes, like, eventually Nike did release those, but only, like, a hundred of them. And they made people cry, kind of like the Shishwan sauce from Rick and Morty. And Rick and Morty is basically just a ripoff of Back to the Future. That's true. So it's all full circle. But just to get back to the original question here, you know, we played Back to the Future Part 1, and that was worthy of being its own game. Worthy in the sense that they managed to fill out. It had all the classic scenes. It was really a great tie-in. They filled out a full game.

03:28 To answer your initial question, like, when you read that back of the box, it immediately makes me think this is a Mario Duck Hunt situation. Like, there's two games in this? They gave me both of these good games in this? It's like, no. They've taken one move. Like, all right, I'll spoil it right here. I didn't beat this game. But just looking through all the footage, I'm like, wait, when does Back to the Future Part 2 end? And Part 3 really begin here? Like, it all kind of blends together. It's not like, it's not two separate games for the price of one. It's also not either of these movies. But we'll get into that. No, yeah. It's actually, I thought Joe was going to go in that direction. Joe, it is Mario.

04:06 It is Mario. I don't know what is happening. But before we talk about the game, I would like to read you what I would consider the core gameplay of Back to the Future Part 2 and 3. Is this from the instruction manual? It's a mix of the instruction manual and a little bit of paraphrasing here and there. So I'm just going to lay it all out to try and present to you the game as a whole. And then we'll talk about it. Does that sound fair? Yeah. Yes. It's a side-scrolling platformer and item collection game in which you travel through various times or years. 1955, 1985, 2015, and eventually all the way back to 1885. And throughout this, you are platforming and stomping on enemies like you would Goombas or Koopas.

05:07 And along the way, you find areas that become puzzle-solving mechanics where you have to collect a certain amount of a certain thing for the object to appear or do something within a time limit. And these little quick mini-like stages reward you with a prize that you must then bring that prize item to the correct location in order to fix the events. Time and location. What's that? Time and location. Yeah. Time and location. Right. To fix the events in the timelines. So there are multiple items to find across the various different stages. And then there's also different places to put them. All this to say, while that is the core game, this is a game where right away I just felt lost. Oh, absolutely. So. Yeah. Shall we?

06:10 Yes. Because I would like to know, you know, for me, I would say I gave up on the idea of this game being any good the second that I jumped. But. Yeah. I mean. But realistically, the most challenging part of this game is finding anything to do. So I very quickly realized that the game was a lot bigger than I was expecting. Or not even just bigger. Like, it was a lot more complex than I was expecting. Like, there's no, like, levels here.

06:50 Really. There's, this is like one giant maze. Um. And basically, the, the, the plot reason why you're going to all these places and grabbing these things and bringing them back to the time and place is, Biff, Biff hit everything. And he's going to break the space time continuum if you don't fix it. Um. And I don't think that that's what happened in the movie. But fine. Um. But basically, you, they drop you off in 1985 and like some 1985 hellscape with Biff being like a, like a, a, a, a multi-millionaire entertainment mogul, whatever. And you have to just sort of navigate all of these very samey levels. Like, they are kind of levels in that they're like screens at least.

07:39 Um. That some of them have landmarks. Most of them don't. You just kind of have to remember how the platforms are arranged. Um. And you, you have to go around and find these hidden rooms and find these hidden key items. But you are given no guidance. At all. And you are kind of expected to create a really complex map. And when I kind of, I figured out what, what was happening. Like, games like this, I usually can't even get like a, a very basic wraparound until I do some secondary research. And I found a video of this guy explaining like how he made a map. And it's this like 4D chess looking thing going back and forth between streets.

08:34 And it's, it's really, it's, it's wildly complex for what I was expecting out of a movie tie-in game. Yeah. I think, I think you could even maybe say it's overly complex. Because it has, it's way more vast than it needs to be for what, for what is included in all of the vastness. If that makes any sense. Like, you have all these time periods. And that's a cool idea. On the, you know, at base value. But you have all these time periods. But each time period is like a pretty long, I'd say full side-scroller level. And maybe then some length level. But then each of those has elevators that go like up and down to other just like almost identical looking full side-scroller levels.

09:24 And, I mean, I don't even know. I feel like there's like 10 layers of these. There's 16. 16 layers of these. So here's the thing. Basically, those, in each of these screens, you'll have any number, like between one and four, I think, gateways that kind of bring you to a different street. Like, you're technically like all in the same neighborhood in this town. But they're all like the cross streets. And you're kind of going north and south on these streets. And there are 16 streets. And there are three versions of each.

10:01 And the way that you get between them is different depending on the time period you're in. So they're kind of like mazes that have sections that are kind of cut off. So you have to... It's kind of a cool concept. And I remember Titanfall did something like this in the first-person shooter space. But we won't get into that.

10:18 But it's the way that they've designed this. It's turned into backtracking the game. Yeah. Which is okay if it's like a really small space that has a lot of bespoke, highly detailed, fun elements. But not so fun if it is a very bland platforming level. Right. And it's like there are things to be found in it. But it's spread out. It's spread out over too much space. So like all this space is like most of the time when you walk from one point to another, it was a waste of time. You know? Like unless you just know exactly where to go.

11:03 Right. And that's the issue, right? Is that the stages themselves, right? So if you're in the alternate 1985 and you're walking around, you are doing this Super Mario Brothers style platforming a little bit. It doesn't feel anything like Super Mario Brothers other than the fact that you stomp on enemies and have a fireball power up. So I don't, I just, we could talk about why they decided to do that later. But like you're mostly just wandering around that hoping that you find the minigame portion of this that is like a smaller, a larger, smaller Marty in a big area where you have to collect items of like, you know, like 50 pizza slices or something. And then as a result, you're rewarded with the piece of treasure.

11:56 But that's all this game. Like that would have been the moment where like, oh, now you're doing something specific from the movie. Like now you're doing a hoverboard chase or now you're, um, uh, help me out. Another thing that happened, another action sequence in Back to the Future 2. Now you're jumping off a roof and landing at a DeLorean. There you go. Yeah. It's like those kinds of things could have happened, but instead it just becomes this weird, like a different version of platforming and collecting that's very small and bite-sized.

12:28 And then once you get that item now, it's like, okay, now go back out to the main world and just continue to roam around aimlessly, hoping that you've either find another one of those minigames or find a place to put this damn item that you just, that you just picked up. But it better be the right place because if you try to put it in the wrong one, you will lose it and have to go back and do the minigame again. Right. And so, and do that at minimum then like what? There's like 30 of these items? Yeah. So minimum 30 times.

12:57 It's just, yeah, I'll say what, just watching the, you know, always after I finish one of these games, I watch like the YouTube, like long play of it. And usually it's like between 20 minutes to like an hour and a half. This is to beat this game, which I'm assuming someone who's very well versed is not necessarily a speed run, but someone who knows exactly where to go. Two hours and 58 minutes. It took three hours for like the expert to do it. Okay. But like the one thing I want to catch, I think like we get into this and we, we sort of come at this criticizing it from the point of view of three guys that have to play these games in a week.

13:35 And it's like, why the fuck do they take this long? Like, how can I be expected to do all this? And like, I'm very, I'm, I'm, I'm very guilty of this, but I'm not even saying that like no game should be this elaborate. No game should be this long. That's not what we're saying here. It, it seems to be this complex in this long with no context, like without any reason for that, without any reason for that being. And without any real thematic, uh, without any kind of thematic, uh, relation to the movie.

14:18 Right. And just to agree real quick with you, Sean, like it's, it's not like, you know, if I see this length of time on this, this quote unquote speed run or expert run for metal gear or, or willow or something like, regardless of how I feel about those games, like that makes sense. That fits. And it could make sense for this, but it's like three hours of doing this. Like, it doesn't, it's just like, wow, that's, that's a lot of this.

14:46 Right. That, that is the, that is the biggest problem. And, uh, you know, sorry to sound so negative about the game. We try to, uh, hide these a little bit, but like, it is, it is incredibly dull what is happening in this game at all times. And I think that's because it called itself back to the future part two and three. And I barely feel like that character is Marty McFly in any way. Like, well, here's the thing. There's nothing happening. They got the DeLorean.

15:14 Like the DeLorean. Sure, but you don't get to even fly the DeLorean. Like it just, it picks you up when you die and you can use it to travel to the other things. But you get to interact with that cool, like, you know, uh, control panel. I also like how the DeLorean will sometimes just drop you off directly into like your death. Yeah. Like, you know, just like depending on where you die, it's like, we're going to drop you off exactly over this pit.

15:37 But there is like one or two instances of the movie other than like, you know, forcing cut scenes that explain Biff taking the almanac and everything. Like there's only like one or two moments in this entire game that feel like they are tied in any way to back to the future. And that is the back to the future logo in the bottom left. That's just always there. It's just always on screen. Oh, I forgot I was playing back to the future because it's nothing like it. Thank you for reminding me what I'm playing. And then the other instance is that, and this is just a, this is a, there was probably just one employee in this whole thing that cared about this game and said, guys, don't forget. We're making a back to the future movie, uh, video game.

16:18 We might as well like, you know, talk about like the consequences of time travel and everything. And that is that when you do travel between 1955, 1985 and 2015, uh, no, no, that is, that is something else. But, um, no, this is that every time you do one of those time travels, uh, it creates a clone of Marty in the year in which you, uh, were. So if you go back to that year, you might run into that clone, touch it and die. Just like how the, in the movie, they're not allowed to like see one another because it causes you to instantly faint.

16:52 Oh yeah. Like that's a thing. That, that's, you know, that is a good level of detail. It's not what I thought you were going to bring up. I, I'd forgotten about that, but like, I thought you were going to bring up the hoverboard, which is, it's not a hoverboard. Such a half ass. It's just a moving platform. It's a floating platform. It's a moving platform that disappears after a second. Anyways, it's just like, yeah, we put it in. It doesn't really help you in any way. There's also all of the background elements, at least in 85. That's just like, you know, evil Biff. Uh, like lights everywhere.

17:24 Uh. Yeah. But then shouldn't it like, I don't know. Just shouldn't the mini games also just be related to whatever like area you just, so like, say you were near Biff's casino. Can't the mini game be a casino mini game at least, even though there was no famous casino scene? I'll say about the mini games. I don't know if they're not themed at least on the movie or, or at the very least. Yeah. Just on like the environment that is sort of related to the movie, like the casino or whatever. But, uh, I do think that the casino, the, the mini games have mostly interesting concepts.

18:03 Again, not related to what we want, but like, I like the idea, like there's where every time you pick something up, like the, the, the environment will either like appear or disappear, like turn invisible. So you have to like, remember where were the platforms. Like, that's kind of cool. You pick something up, you can see it again for a second. Pick something else up. Now it's all invisible again. You got to remember where to jump to next. That's a neat thing. There's a bunch of little fizz. There's one where it's like a bunch of Marty clones copy your every move.

18:29 And theoretically the idea there is that like, Oh, if they're all following you and they're all like delayed by one moment, you got to be careful of like what they hit. I don't, it was actually not executed properly because there's no moving things on the screen. So it doesn't matter. You have to like dodge yourself at one point, but.

18:47 Yeah. But, um, but I, I, I did want to point out that if the main, uh, side scrolling section or a ripoff of Super Mario Brothers, I do think that the, um, the mini game sections are at least somewhat a ripoff of Mario Bros. The arcade game. Oh, hell, absolutely. In fact, I think there's even one that's very obviously like a Donkey Kong, uh, the first stage level just recreated, uh, you know, in, inside this game. I, I think there's a lot of those examples in these mini games and the mini games. I agree, Joe. I think that there are some, uh, and I keep going to mini game, but they're really just like collect items or get to the end.

19:27 Um, I do agree that there's some good ideas in these. Uh, in fact, I think that one that you guys were just talking about with the multiple Martys and you can't touch any of them. That's something that like eventually Super Mario Brothers does steal. Like that is, that becomes a thing in later Mario games where there's like a shadow Mario that follows. Yeah. I know in, in Super Mario Wonder, the most recent iteration of 2D Mario games, uh, that's a big thing. So it is, it is posing some interesting ideas. The only problem is there's such short bursts between long stretches of trying to find them that, uh, ultimately you're just left wondering like, what's the point?

20:08 Yeah. I mean, I guess it, the, the individual puzzle rooms, I guess we can call them. I don't, they're, they're fine. There's some, there's some fun design in those, but yes, I think like 80 to 90% of the time you're playing this game, you're going to spend lost in the quote unquote overworld, which plays more like, like, like a Euro jank version of Super Mario with a weird jump. And, uh, spineys that you can jump on for some reason that kind of broke my brain. Um, you remember the spineys?

20:40 Yep. Um, they, well, they have the spikes out. So you would assume you, you would assume you can't jump, but you can, you can jump on them. Uh, and you should. Yeah. Also, I wouldn't say they look like spineys. They are spineys. Yeah. They're just spineys. In the same way that exactly like there's like that, that fish from Mario. That's just also there. There's also just warp pipes.

21:00 They just, he just goes down warp pipes. Yeah. Um, so I, I think like either, even though there's still some stuff good about those puzzle rooms, uh, you're, you're not going to be in those very often. And they're, they're simple enough that you're probably going to solve them very glee without having to reach high. And you're just going to spend more time in this overworld.

21:27 So here's one who deserved a raise for the making of this game. The guy who had to title all of these, uh, puzzle rooms. Mm. Title. Like, like, okay, this, this room needs a title. Like it couldn't just be like, you just go into the puzzle room. It had to be like, and this one's called cloning owned. And this one is a teddy bears on parade.

21:48 Yeah. It was, it was always like a reference to something, a school's out. Uh, this is your life. But not back to the future. Not a reference back to the future. Not a reference at all. And I can't, I just, I can't figure out the need to title those for any other reason than like strategy guide purposes. Like. I was just going to say, like they, they, the foresight, like now in, in 2024, I'm like, Hey, great. They're all titled. If I want to look one up, I just Google it. And like, it comes right up because everybody's talking about these levels, but you can, yeah, like maybe he, maybe he had the foresight. Or she. Wait, is there any rhyme or reason to where the items go?

22:26 Uh, no, I don't think so. Um, I, maybe. That's gotta be the worst part, right? Offensive of it all. Is that you get an item. Maybe they are items that are like, because I wasn't paying attention, but maybe they are like older items. The one that you have to like retrieve and then put back in 1955 or like, well, I assume like you get like a malted milkshake at one point. I'm guessing it's a malted milkshake. I just. Yeah. That's gotta go to 55, right? Right. But I don't know. I never got it to the right place.

22:57 Well, we were talking about how it's, uh, Super Mario Brothers stole from, um, Back to the Future here. Uh, Chrono Trigger also stealing from Back to the Future as Joe referenced or maybe Sean referenced it. Yeah. That was me. You plant. Yeah. You plant the seed. I knew about the tree. You plant the seed in 55 and then if you go to the same location in 85, now there's a full grown tree there. Uh, however, that could be. You gotta go to 2015. It's only half grown in 85.

23:22 Ah, okay. That could be a read as an actual reference to Back to the Future because in, well, but it's only the, but it's the first Back to the Future. It's not part two or three, so they still didn't get the movies they were talking about. But in the first Back to the Future where Marty lands in 1955, he runs over a bunch of trees.

23:43 And they're not there anymore. Or runs over a tree and ruins it. And then in the present, originally what was called Twin Pines Mall is called Twin Pine Mall. I totally forgot about that.

23:55 And I think we did in the regular Back to the Future episode too. It's one of the best attention to detail things. It's like constantly brought up in there. Even though that kind of time travel doesn't make any sense. But continue. Yeah, I think we also talked about that in Back to the Future part one. So we need to make sure we don't repeat history here.

24:12 I mean, I want to talk about it. I gotta address what Sean said before we move on. No, no. We don't need to. That kind of time travel could make sense as long as it's consistent with the rest of those world's rules. But in Back to the Future, it's true. Which is why it doesn't make sense. Yes. Yeah. Good. I'm glad you got that out of your system. I have to. Well, yeah. We had to get it out of the way in Final Fantasy episode as well that Garland's time travel

24:40 does make sense within the rules of Final Fantasy. So Back to the Future's rules could make sense within the rules. Did we come to that conclusion that it did make sense? We did. Yeah. It was pretty amazing. It took us 25 minutes. I think we came to it live. Yeah. I think we all thought it didn't make sense. And as we talked about it, we were all like, oh. I feel like I was still pretty. I don't know. I can't remember what I think about anything. Go back and listen to it. In fact, everybody go back and listen to three hours of a Final Fantasy episode. Can you just insert the entire Final Fantasy episode here like a soundbite? The entire episode. Sure. Okay. What I was going to bring up was, you know, we were trashing the game almost entirely.

25:18 And not that I have anything necessarily positive to say. But I do think that one thing that makes this game unique compared to other NES platformers is that, you know, you don't have stages, right? In the first Back to the Future game, it was just level clear. You know, like the objectives were different in the levels. And then once it was over, you just moved to the next stage.

25:41 Here, you are just trying to, like, find the mini- Like, it's a little bit nonlinear, but nothing matters. It's not Metroidvania in any way. It's not like, oh, because you did this sequence instead, like, history is altered. There's very little consequence as a result. So it's just like, oh, I can see how a game could make this approach interesting. But ultimately, what they chose is just to make a very empty wasteland.

26:09 Yeah, it's kind of like what I've said many times of just, like, I just want more systems-based games. And it's kind of like, this kind of is one where it's not, you're not going from level to level. Yes, there are different screens that kind of act like levels, but you're going to be revisiting these. It's like, it's not a linear going from one to the other. And you have an overarching goal that you are accomplishing slowly via, like, things that you will figure out over time. But sometimes I'm just like, oh, maybe I don't want those things if this is how it ends up being. You know what I mean?

26:54 Yeah, definitely. Like, again, it was like, they had to, because they chose to try and make it like, oh, there's this, we're going to base this on the time travel element of Back to the Future, which sounds like a no-brainer, because that's what Back to the Future is. That's like, it's the, yeah, you do expect, like, it to work in some sort of counter-triggerish way, which I think is, you know, maybe a little, a lot to ask from an NES game. So, like, when I boot up this game, I'm expecting and would be just happy with just a platformer that takes me to familiar Back to the Future tropes in it.

27:30 I'm not expecting it to be, like, actually, basically, your actions matter and everything in the present and the future. It'd be great if they could pull it off, but, like, it's like they tried, like, that was their idea, but they didn't do anything to make that happen. So it's like, you might as well have just given me the basic game. I think we weren't very into the original, but if I had to, between this 12-hour extreme

27:58 puzzle of where to put time-displaced items and a minigame about trying to avoid tongue-kissing your mother, which did exist in the first game, I think I would... Yeah, and technically exists in the movie. And, yeah, yeah, but, like, you know, a super gamified version, I think I'd choose the minigame about trying to avoid tongue-kissing your mother.

28:25 Yeah, it's funny, because it's going to seem like we... There's no, like, pleasing us, because... There really isn't, though. Yeah, that's true. What we did complain about in the first one was, like, well, this isn't about time travel, and now this one's, like, about time travel, but, like, they did it wrong. That's the problem. Yeah, and thank goodness Marty didn't need to actually fix all these things in the movie. Could you imagine that movie, where, like, he has to find the correct positions? Like, man, that's boring.

28:50 Thank goodness it was just grab the almanac. But this is the section now where I do want to talk a little bit about part two and three of the movies, because I feel like there's still a nice way to come at that with the game. And as I was watching Back to the Future Part Two, which is a classic, so many great scenes, so many memorable moments, I love that movie. But I couldn't help but feel like a lot of Back to the Future 1, 2, and 3, it's not about suspension of disbelief from the audience, but it does, like, they write themselves into

29:24 situations that are easily, like, solved by just doing this one other thing. But they feel like they must do it this way. And with Back to the Future Part Two specifically, why is Marty, like, acting like he has to get the almanac, like, as if he's a spy? Like, he should be doing... Like, if all it is is just grab the almanac and run, like, just ask Doc for a gun, point it at Biff, take the almanac, and get the hell out of there. This movie can happen, Mike. No, I know, I know what I'm talking about. Like, I get that. No, I get that. So that's why the gun thing doesn't work, because that's also out of character for Marty, right? Because in Back to the Future Part Three, he won't even do the duel with Mad Dog Biff or whatever, Mad Dog Griff.

30:09 So I get that. But then, like, okay, now the principal had the almanac at one point in the movie, and he's still acting like he needs to, like, go on his hands and knees and, like, when he's not looking, like, snatch it away. But, oh, the principal always looks at the last second. It's like, what's going to happen? Marty's not even a student at the school. What's going to happen if he sees him grab the almanac? Yeah, but what's going to happen is this guy is going to see you in there, and then you're going to either get thrown out or arrested or whatever, and then you're not going to be able to get the almanac.

30:40 Also, he... Marty is not a student at the school, but he kind of is, because in the previous movie, that exact person was go attending school there. The principal knew who he was. So, like, you know, I don't know. Yeah, you could just punch him in the face and run, I guess. Yeah, I just feel like if... You know, I could understand if I had to, like, finish up some other things there, but if that's, like... If I just need to dodge the cop for three hours, I think, like, most people could do that. But, you know, if it's... If you put me... All right, if it's Principal Strickland, Marty McFly, I think based on Back to the Future Part 2, like, you see that Strickland is not, like, a pushover.

31:13 I mean, he's got, like, a machine gun in the BIF future, and that's when he's 30 years older than he is there. Right. And he's, like, taking on thugs and stuff. Like, I don't know, I think that guy, uh... I think I might have seen some shit, and maybe he'll just beat the shit out of Marty. As far as the gun thing, I mean, this is, you know, maybe me doing some gymnastics to, like... To, like, um...

31:33 To make it work, but... It's the... I mean, yeah, he doesn't... Marty doesn't exist in 1955, so it's like, what are the consequences? But the consequences are the same as now. The same reason that, like, when I need to solve something, like, the idea of me threatening someone with a gun is scary, because if I get caught, I go to jail. Marty will go to jail in a different time, he doesn't even exist then, and then definitely everything's screwed up. So you go... You go... This is what I would have done.

31:57 You go back to the time and date that the Almanac was published, fire to the printing press. Yes. I like that. You don't have to go fight any principles, uh, you just... All you need is a high-vis jacket, a clipboard, and a lighter, and some lighter fluid. That's all you need. But I do think one good, like, ace in the hole that they have in the storytelling of this is that Doc is very adamant that, like, we can't change anything. And I know that's kind of a joke, because they changed so much.

32:30 But, like, yeah, going back and destroying the Almanac in the past might have consequences even worse than what you know, you know? Because, like, the butterfly effect, they're trying to undo the butterfly effect by putting everything back the way that it was. I can't believe they ripped that off of the movie, The Butterfly Effect. Yeah. The great, the great Ashton Kusher movie, The Butterfly Effect.

33:16 The Butterfly Effect.

33:20 And then with Back to the Future Part 3, which I swear does exist in this game as well, but it is just doing the same thing as Back to the Future Part 2. None of us got there. With a cowboy hat. But with a cowboy hat. It takes so long. Yeah, the cowboy hat's a nice touch. It is a nice touch that they give you a different look.

33:35 But, no, it is basically doing the same things again. So there's nothing new to cover. But just the biggest surprise of this whole game is that there's never, like, a Biff boss fight. Like, it's just the minigames. It's just the puzzle of putting the item where it needs to be. There's never, like, a moment for the hoverboard. There's never a moment for the train.

33:56 Like, it's just, it is what it is. And that, this game isn't hiding anything. So instead, Back to the Future Part 3, when I watched it as a kid, I didn't watch it, like, immediately after Part 2. So watching it again now, 2 and 3, right back to back, I never realized, like, how obvious it was. Because they were filmed back to back. And it was all planned to begin with. And, you know, they shot both movies at the same time.

34:19 There's so many references to, like, they're gonna, the third one's gonna be a Western. And they're gonna go to 1885. Yeah. In 2. That it's like, why are we doing this again? Like, I understand, Joe, that it's, like, it's not a bad movie. I agree. I, I, I did like 3. And I, I think my, just my biggest problem is, like, but why is the whole thing in the Wild West? Like, it just... Well, I mean, why is the whole first one in 1955? No, no, but that's cool. That's the aesthetic of the movie. I know, yeah, yeah.

34:47 But why is that cool in the Wild West? Is it cool? Nobody existed in the Wild West. You know what I'm saying? Like, there was no reason to go back and fix that. Like, Doc just went there because he likes the Wild West. And now we have to, like, deal with that. Like, it was an episode of Back to the Future. It wasn't, like... But do you want to rehash the first movie? Like, like, the first movie is, like, we have to fix this.

35:08 We have to fix you screwed up by coming here. The second movie is, like, okay, now we're in the future. But now the bad guy has the thing and we've got to stop. We've got to undo the thing he did. The third movie is we're stranded and we've got to find a way back without, like, screwing anything up. It's, like, there's three different plots. I am on Joe's side here. It's, like... No, I just... It's, like... It's... Yeah, it's... I just think the third one feels more like an episode of the week for Back to the Future rather than as big and stakes-y and related to Marty as parts one and two were.

35:37 Well, it's related to Marty in the sense that it's Marty that's stranded and needs to get home. He's got to get literally back to the future. No, I know, but it was more about his family in one and two. You know, and... Yeah, but that's fine. Like, it's... Yeah, it's not about his family in this one. Yeah, I... Well, yeah, but I guess that's what I'm saying. It just felt like it was just another adventure. It was literally a Rick and Morty thing for Marty and Doc instead. It was just, like... It didn't feel like it was as additive as the first two were for, like, what the series was going for. Instead, it's like, hey, Doc felt like going back to the West, so we're gonna hang out for the West for the next 90 minutes.

36:16 I mean, I know what you're saying about the episode thing, because I've felt that way about other properties. Other elements and other, like, properties. Like, I think I felt that way originally about the West. It's the third movie in most trilogies. Yeah, yeah, but, like... It didn't bother me in this one, because it's like... It doesn't feel like, oh, this was not an important part of the story. It was like... This, like, this kind of gives Doc his arc, and it gives Doc his happy ending, and... I get that, like, it's weird and it's different than the other movies. Now, looking back on it, have you not seen them in a while? I think that, as much as growing up, 2 was my favorite. I think that 2 is the most different.

36:58 Because... Because 2 is not about getting back to the future. Like, it's the only one where that's not the priority. Right. 2 has the fun of, like, the events of the first movie are also happening at the same time. I love that, yeah. So, there's something interesting about that.

37:15 Just because Sean brought it up about, like, trilogies and stuff. I was thinking, in a weird way, just a parallel to this, is the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles live-action trilogy, and how the third one, they, like, went to feudal Japan for the third movie. Like, the first one is this fun thing in Manhattan, the second one, right? It's not... They don't really... We all know that the first and second one are just steeped in really deep themes and symbolism, and reasons to exist.

37:43 Maybe the first one. The second one, not so much. The second one... The second one is a bit of a mess. But the third one is just, like, okay, yeah, the Ninja Turtles are there, but, like, why are we in the past now? Like, it's just... It feels like... It's funny, because I think it also came out, like, a couple years... Only a few years after Back to the Future Part 3, so there's maybe, you know, like, a weird way that they're connected, coincidence or not.

38:11 Yeah. I haven't... I wasn't really a big live-action TMNT guy, so I don't really remember those movies that much, but I think that's a good analogy, because I think I do sympathize more with what you're saying about the third one, now that you mention it that way. But I guess the other reason that it doesn't bother me that it's so different is because it's a time-travel franchise, so, like, this is why they're in this other time. And, like, I gotta love the... I mean, not... It doesn't necessarily defend it, but I gotta love the end of Back to the Future 2 when Doc gets struck by lightning, and then the guy comes out of the van, he's like, we've had this letter for 90 years or whatever. Oh, yeah, with Western Union. Yeah, that was good.

38:48 Yeah. So good. So, like, it felt right because it, like, the movie before led to it, and like you said, there were all these hints that, like, that was a part of it. And I think there was... There's even the... In the second movie, this is a little thing that, again, doesn't explain what you're asking,

39:06 but there is, if I remember correctly, a moment where Doc puts into the DeLorean the date of, like, 1885 as, like, to prove a point to Marty. He's, like, saying, like, what, do you think we want to do this or that? I don't remember exactly what it is, but he puts it in there, but, like, not ever intending to go there. And that's where the DeLorean is left set when he gets shy lightning, which is why he ends up in 1885. I do. I just watched... I just watched the movie the other day. I'm pretty sure I can give that.

39:38 Okay. Like, that's cool. That's cool on a rewatch. Yeah, I agreed. That's what I'm saying. It's like, I didn't know, actually. It's funny, because in Back to the Future Part 2's ending, this became a film podcast. This is how much we hate the game.

39:50 But in Back to the Future Part 2, like, after everything, after the game, credit, like, trailer for the third movie, like, showing, like... Oh, I never knew this. It's just showing the footage that they must have captured already that, like, you know, like, oh, this is what, you know, like, you won't believe the adventure that they'll have in Part 3 and everything. There's no VO or anything, but it shows so much of the movie that it even shows Marty getting back together with his girlfriend that he left on that porch in the trailer. And it's like, wait a minute. This is the end of the movie. That's the end of the movie. It's like, there's just no way that they would have thought.

40:24 That, uh, oh, you know, like, yeah, they're gonna go leave the West and then come back. Like, this is just Back to the Future being very prescient about the future, about how most trailers will give away too much of the plot of the movie.

40:38 I just think it's funny that it shows all that footage. In the future. Yeah. It shows all that footage, and then it just says, like, Back to the Future Part 3 coming in 1990. And if you watch the movie on Peacock, uh, where it's currently streaming, you will still see that. No, no, no, you'll just still see that. Coming in 1990. Yeah. Coming in 1990. It's like, this can't be chopped from the movie?

41:07 I would like to get back to the game for a minute. Oh. Okay. I thought you were, I was certain you were gonna say, but what can't be chopped from this podcast is... Oh, if only I was that smart, Joe.

41:20 No, I want to talk about the game again, because I mentioned very briefly that I knew that this game wasn't for me the second I jumped. And that's the first thing you do in this game. Uh, and I just want to make it clear that, like, it's not the worst jump I've ever seen, but it is something that you have to calibrate for every single time you do it. Yeah, it's very momentum-based. Yeah, you eventually learn it, but there's a bit of a stutter to it, too, though. You will end up jumping backwards if you try and... And that really messes with your, uh, your jectile weapons, and it'll lead to a lot of

41:57 accidental collisions that way. So, yeah, it's not great, but I think, you know, once you get used to it, you learn the little, you learn the little weirdnesses of it. It's all, it's all good. Yeah, one more weirdness of it, though, is the platforming overall, is that you jump normally from these, like, girder thing to another girder thing, and these girder things are sitting on bricks. So, like, when there's a pit that you can fall in, there's still bricks there.

42:27 So, like, it looks like floor. Like, you have to, like, train your brain, at least in the Biff version, like, the Biff world. That is true. That is a thing that exists. Where it's like, yeah, you're, like, you're standing on this platform, and then there's, like, these bricks in front of you, but bricks are just empty space. Like, just get that through your head. Like, as soon as you jump onto these bricks, you fall to your death. Like, through the bricks. Them is background bricks. But they're not, because, like, yes, they are, like, that's their intent, but they're not, because the thing you're walking on is sitting on those bricks. So, it's like, well, if it was sitting on it, it's gotta be up here in the foreground. Ugh. Don't get me started.

43:02 Well, I was so disappointed, Back to the Future Part 2 and 3, that I checked out a couple of other Back to the Future games that I would like to talk about right now. Oh, did you play the Telltale one? I didn't, because I actually hear that one's pretty damn good, so I don't want to rush through it just to talk about it. Yeah, I want to play that game. That's an episodic adventure game where there's, like, multiple episodes and everything. So, maybe I won't like it, because apparently I don't like episodic Back to the Future, but I do, I do like that movie.

43:30 Well, it's also supposedly, like, canonically, the fourth installment. Yep, yep, it is. I don't know, like, I don't know how that works, like, if Zemeckis was involved or just said, like, yeah, sure, like, I'll bless it, you know?

43:44 Yeah. But, yeah, it does serve, at least it picks up the pieces from the end of Part 3, and that makes you wonder, like, eh, like, you know? To your point, Joe, like, Doc, you know, that was more of his story and his journey in the third one. Like, shouldn't we just, shouldn't we just be glad to see him, like, be done and have a family and, you know, live a happy life, and now we have to bring him back in just for some more shenanigans? I don't know, that's what I kind of hate about, like, Toy Story 4 and now 5. It's like, weren't they done? Didn't they do enough?

44:14 Nothing should end. Didn't they do enough? It'll never be enough. Nothing should ever end. Well, it, you know, since we're talking about Back to the Future 4, I think it's worth mentioning Back to the Future 4 on NES.

44:27 Dear God, no. No, we will not play it, because it is a bootleg game from China. Oh. That just has a Back to the Future 4 logo on the start screen, and then it's Blaster Master. Oh. The rest of the game. That sounds better than this. It is. You get Blaster Master. Huh. That's awesome. That is pretty cool. I don't know why they called it Back to the Future 4. Never any, like, I thought there was going to be a cool moment where you'd get some cut scenes where you can, like, find out, you know, like, the story. But it's just Blaster Master with a Back to the Future 4 on the start screen.

45:06 Then there's Back to the Future 2, not 2 and 3, just number 2 on Genesis, which starts off with a hoverboard level that feels like one of those Paperboy-style games, you know? Don't try to, like, weave in and out. So, like, most of the Back to the Future. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's like that skateboarding level in the first NES game, but now with a hoverboard. And, you know, you can punch out Biff's goons and everything like that. But I only played that first level.

45:35 It was hard. I didn't really get past it. So, I just wanted to rush through these. So then I was like, oh, well, what's Back to the Future 3 on Genesis, like, then? And that starts with you as Doc riding a horse and dodging every fucking thing in the Wild West all at once. It's like, you're out in the desert, right? It's not a desert. But, like, you're out there with no landmarks. You're not in a village or anything. You're just out there in the West. Do trains drop out of the sky?

46:07 No, no. It's like birds and barrels and other things. So, you have to constantly be jumping over things, ducking, and shooting at things. And it's like, what is Doc doing here? Like, it was just a very, very hard first level of the third game. And apparently, for both these games, it's not just like, oh, this is a hoverboarding game and this is a horse riding game. Like, every level is a different thing from the previous thing. So, once you get good at the hoverboard section, forget about it because it doesn't matter anymore. Now you have to do this, you know, this next thing, which is, you know, one of them was, like, I think it was Back to the Future Part 2 from Miga.

46:50 One of the levels was just, like, one of those sliding puzzle games, you know, where, like, you have to keep sliding. Like a three by three? Yeah. And one of the, you know, like, one of the squares is empty, so you have to keep sliding blocks. It was like, you have to form a picture of Marty performing, you know, at the prom. You have to perform that, you have to, like, finish that picture. And I'm like, what is happening here? What are these games? Why can nobody get these right?

47:17 Thankfully, the most interesting of the batch of these older ones, Super Back to the Future Part 2 on Super Famicom only. So it raises a couple questions. Why would they make a Back to the Future game that never came out in America? Right? Like, that just feels like they left money on the wall. And then where's Super Back to the Future War 3? Like, who just says, like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? Let's make Super Godfather 2.

47:42 Like, you know, you gotta, you gotta, like, at least start with the first game. I'm pretty sure there is, I know this actually, a Super Nintendo Super Star Wars line. And that one starts with the first game before moving on. So Super Back to the Future Part 2 gives everything that chibi look. So maybe that's why it didn't come to America. You know, they were like, oh, we can't have that. Too cute. But no, it actually looks great, Sean. I really liked it. The aesthetic. And you are... Yeah, but like, you, you like those things. Yeah, yeah, I'm a weeb.

48:16 And it's a platforming game with Marty on a hoverboard. He's on the hoverboard the whole time. And you're, you kind of, like, use the hoverboard to attack enemies. And it's still a platforming game. But the platforming and it is level to level.

48:33 It's much kinder than this game. There is a clear objective of get to the end of the stage. And while it's still no explanation for why, like, robots are fighting you or Koopas are fighting you. There's no reason for why these things happen in either game. I just look on it more favorably in Super Back to the Future Part 2 versus Back to the Future Part 2 and 3. And I'll tell you one thing we're not going to look at favorably because I just know it. From the way this episode's been going. And that is Back to the Future Part 2 and 3's Essential Games List Vote.

49:09 Is that legal? The way you said it? The way I said it? Can I say that? I don't think it's legal. You said it very strange. Because I had to add vote at the end. Yeah. You kind of botched this. Yeah. Maybe I should. Let's start the episode. Yeah. No, maybe I should just go back to the past to arrive at the future. Plant a tree. I know they have to go back to the future, but they do go to the past.

49:30 It took me a little bit as a kid to work that out. Well, yeah, in the first movie, they're trying to get back to the future. But then after that, it's like- No, then they have to go back to the future in the second one. They have to go back to the future. I mean, I guess- But that's- They've never been there. But yeah, yeah. Well, Marty's never been there. So yeah, that's not- Right. But Doc is going back to the future. Yeah, that's true. Also, Back to the Future Part 2. This is not Essential Games List Vote. Who are we kidding? I botched it so bad, I'm going to try it again. Back to the Future Part 2 also tried to predict a lot of things about the future.

50:05 We'd never predict also that we'd all be- All of our bosses would be Japanese, or we'd be run by Japanese companies. But then there's that- He gets fired via fax, and it's like, you guys really thought fax would still be around? And it's like seven fax machines in the house go off? It's still tele-firing, which is a thing that happens. So- True. Yeah, it's like the Zoom equivalent. Yeah. Yeah, like the idea of the future of fax machines would just be like, well, they'll be everywhere. Not like, we'll have moved on. It'd be like, no, we'll be able to have more fax machines. They'll be in every wall of the house. Right, right. Like just how they had one TV in 1955. Now it's like, we have seven fax machines.

50:56 A wall. The movie that we just played, the- Total Recall. It's kind of in the same way- How ironic that you couldn't recall. Yeah, ha ha. It's kind of like how there would be these video phones that you have to stare straight into, and if Arnold Schwarzenegger is talking to somebody on the video call phone, they will be perfectly framed, but he's obviously just kind of staring at it from a weird angle, and is almost

51:27 definitely not in the screen. Yeah. It's kind of like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, the one thing, the technology I'm waiting for is like, when you throw your back out, I just want like a thing that carries you around upside down so people can't tell you're not Crispin Glover. That's funny. Does anyone know about that? Can I drop this fun fact? You can bring it up. I did read about it, but go for it. Okay. Crispin Glover, who plays the father in the first movie.

51:54 There was some discrepancy. Yeah, I probably get it wrong. It was a pay dispute. It was something where, yeah, like they weren't going to give him the pay that he was in his contract or something, so they just replaced him, and so people couldn't tell it was a different actor. They just made him upside down the whole movie by saying he threw out his back, and in the future, you hang upside down all day when you have a bad back.

52:16 So like that actor, I didn't know when I was a kid that was not the same actor because it worked. And when he's upside down, it's like the Mona Lisa upside down thing. You can't tell, you can't recognize the face when you're upside down, so I thought that was hilarious. I've never heard of this Mona Lisa upside down thing. You've never seen like the picture of Mona Lisa upside down? You're like, what's wrong with this picture? And you're like, it looks perfect to me. And you turn her right side up, and her eyes are all like screwed up. Oh, I get it.

52:39 Have you ever seen that? Now I'm understanding it. And I just want to make it clear that the paid dispute thing stems back to 1992, which was only two years after the release of the movie, so probably the more likely story. But Crispin Glover did change his response in 2013, stating that he decided not to do part two over a philosophical disagreement on the film's message. Interesting. I don't appreciate you implying that time travel is possible.

53:10 He felt the story rewarded the characters with financial gain rather than love. Well, like the bad guy, right? Well, I guess Marty was also trying to do it, but... But that was like wrong. He realized that that was a mistake. Yeah, but I just think it's funny that this guy's trying to say that he didn't want to take a pile of money to make this film because he had a philosophical disagreement. Stop arguing against Mike. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure Crispin Glover loves part three. He loves this episode. Yeah, he loves this episode. And I love the Essential Games list.

53:50 I love the Essential Games list. I just said it two seconds ago. But... Play the song again. No, no. But I hate this game. I really think this is one of the worst we've played yet. And it's maybe just because it's so large. Like, if it was just these little collecting minigames and then a series of like, okay, you just got the fax machine and then here's three locations. Which one are you going to put it in? And you just guess right or wrong. I would actually review that game more favorably than this empty, barren wasteland of a game that really frustrated me because I just kept trying to find the game within it and not the stupid Super Mario Brothers clone of stomping on enemies that barely fight back.

54:37 There are enemies that know how to come at you, sure. And those ones you're better off just getting out of the way. But nobody in this wasteland is really like a challenging encounter or, you know, really the most disappointing thing. None of them... There's no boss fights. There's no other video game tropes here. So the whole Super Mario Brothers thing is just odd. It just felt like, oh, this is popular so we can do it too. It's like, no, man. There's a reason why, you know, you can't just copy someone else's homework.

55:08 You have to do your homework. Or, sheesh, bad game. What about you, Sean? Yeah, so going back to Total Recall, I had one of my main complaints was that they skipped most of the movie. Now, outside of skipping most of the movie, they did put a lot of the movie in there. And now this is going a step further in Back to the Future Part 2 and 3 where they took the branding and some of the imagery from the movies and just said, like, that's close enough.

55:39 And I don't think that that works. I think that they needed to figure out a different way to brand this game. Maybe I wouldn't have hated it if it had something to do with something else. I still would have had a huge problem with how repetitive the actual moment-to-moment gameplay is and how, just how long they make those repetitive things go on for.

56:07 But I think that branding this as Back to the Future, yeah, it's got some time travel stuff. But it's just not for me. It's not for me. Not essential. Joe. So, there's like, there's two icons of Back to the Future. One is Marty McFly. And, you know, he's got his 80s look and he's the cool guy. The other icon is Doc. Doc has not been in it. We've had three adaptations, if you count this as two, of each movie. And there's been no hint of Doc. What is this? How is this possible? Maybe he wouldn't release his likeness.

56:44 There's a cutscene at the end of this, which is actually a very good cutscene of the whole train thing. It's like right out of the movie. It's like the only thing in this that is right out of the movie. And there's still no hint of Doc. It's just like when the lightning hits and time travel's about to happen, it just goes back to the menu screen. And then you see the DeLorean on the menu screen. And I was even looking. I'm like, please tell me. Doc is in there. You can see him as a sprite on the menu screen or something. He's not in there. That is just one of the many crazy oversights that they had on this game.

57:20 Everything else I've already kind of gone over and you guys covered in your votes. I just had to have some justice for Doc there as I vote this game not essential. I would even say Doc is better as you get older. Like, I think Doc is actually the star of the whole trilogy. Even when I was younger, Doc was my favorite. I was like the wily scientist. I don't really. I think there's something a little sketch about him. He's got himself. He's got himself like involved. His 15-year-old best friend. Yeah, he's got a 15-year-old best friend. He's got involved with some Haitian terrorists. I don't know how into Doc I am.

57:54 Interesting. They're Libyan. That's what I think. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just worth mentioning that we're going to continue to see film video game adaptations here. And I think we're just going to have to try to be a little more balanced in the future about how much of the episode is about the movie versus the game. This is your fault, Mike. I know. I just think I liked both these movies, Back to the Future Part 2 and 3, and I like Total Recall. So maybe we just have to wait until I watch a bad movie.

58:26 But when's that going to happen? I don't know. They're taking the hits. The next movie video game is Little Nemo the Dream Master, and I freaking love that movie too. Well, I've never seen it, so I'll let you do the talking there. Maybe I'll give it a watch. See you next time.