104 · METAL GEAR

• Back of the Box
• Manual
• Introductions
• One of the first stealth games
• Overview
  • an overhead military action-adventure stealth video game
  • The game revolves around Solid Snake, an operative of the special forces unit FOXHOUND, who goes on a solo infiltration mission into the fortified state of Outer Heaven to destroy "Metal Gear", a bipedal walking tank capable of launching nuclear missiles from anywhere in the world, as well as rescue a number of fellow agents who have been captured by the enemy.
  • A port of Metal Gear was released for the Nintendo Entertainment System. Kojima was not directly involved in the production of this version and he has openly criticized some of the changes made in the porting process, including poor translation and no ending boss fight with the titular weapon.
• Gameplay
  • Stealth?
    • Cameras
    • Dogs
  • Sense of direction/exploration
    • So much wasted time not making sense of what to do or where to go
    • Switching Access Cards
  • Low Health at start
  • Coming out of places with respawn and sometimes being knocked
  • Cool Items
  • Passcodes are used in this version to save progress. When Snake is killed by the enemy, the player is given a choice to continue the game from the last checkpoint or quit and resume later with the given passcode
    • the player types the expletive "fuck me" and fills the remaining spaces with "1", will transport the player to the final battle with no equipment.
• The NES version sold over 1 million copies
• MSX VERSION
• Kojima on Metal Gear
  • According to Kojima's account, the port was developed by another Konami division at Tokyo which was given the source code from the MSX2 version without the consent of the original team.
  • Masahiro Ueno, who worked as a programmer for the NES version, has stated that the staff who worked on the port were given a three-month deadline and were ordered to make the port as different as possible from the MSX2 version by Konami executives.
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • World Of Power - Metal Gear Book
    • Big Boss is not featured in the book, but instead, two different characters, Commander South and Colonel Vermon CaTaffy, serve as Solid Snake's commanding officer and Outer Heaven's leader respectively. The book also gives Solid Snake the identity of Justin Halley and changes the name of his organization from FOX HOUND to the Snake Men.
  • Snake’s Revenge
  • Which leads to METAL GEAR 2: SOLID SNAKE for MSX
  • EGL
• 4:55 Joe coughs
• 38:15 Sean resets
• 58:40 EGL
• 1:08:30 - Sean stops

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Crazed Colonel Vermin Katafi poses new terrorist threat to the world.

00:20 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Guys, today we are talking about Metal Gear. Metal Gear? Sean, you're a resident Metal Gear expert. Do you want to say anything to start the show? I feel like I shouldn't be starting this episode.

00:43 I really, I wouldn't say that I'm the expert on Metal Gear. Among us. I probably played it more than the rest of the people in this room. I have avoided Metal Gear in my life so much, but I'm so adamant about not having anything spoiled for me that I have never, like, I've never looked at anything for Metal Gear. You don't even want to play it and have it spoiled that way. It's crazy. Like, I don't know anything other than that, like, maybe he has a clone or a twin or a younger brother. I don't, that's all I know. Well, you see, Solid Snake is actually a clone of Big Boss and a big boss. That would be crazy.

01:14 Even more so, what's funny is that I do know all of these, like, Metal Gear memes, though. Like, that long ladder in Metal Gear 3. That's not a meme. That is a meme because, who is it? Dunkey just did a whole thing on that, like, last year or two years ago. Sure. And it, like, became a thing again about, like, why was that ladder so long and, like. It's called storytelling, Mike. Okay. And ambitious design philosophies. Got it. Well, that ladder would be just, like, the longest ladder in Death Stranding, right? Like, Death Stranding is a game where you can have the ladder be as long as you want it. As long as you want. Really, this episode more than Metal Gear is actually about a little guy named Hideo Kojima.

01:59 True. Hideo. Hideo, I go, actually. I always did Hideo when I was young. Hideo. No, it is. But I just think that's funny if, like, I keep it to my world. I don't want to do any immersion breaking for myself. Same with your Mario bullshit. Yeah. Mario? You say Mario? I used to be a Mario. You used to say Mario. I used to be a Mario guy. And then, like, I don't know. Enough people started saying Mario. And I was like, it's fine. Right? It's not Mario Lopez. So, it is Mario Lopez. So, like, I'm cool with it. It's fine. That was the final straw.

02:27 That's, like, the comparison. That's the litmus test. Anyway. Yeah. Anyway, Kojima. You got to have some thoughts on him, too, right? I very much appreciate Hideo Kojima. I think he's got a lot of great ideas, and he really doesn't know how to tell them to people.

02:44 But I think, you know, it's like one of those misunderstood artists things that's just sort of cute. Okay. Yeah. I never take any of his stories all that seriously, but he really knows how to... It is entrancing stuff. This is arguably the third, or maybe, no, sorry, fourth important name we've heard in video games so far on this podcast. If I had to argue, the first one would be Miyamoto. Sure. The second one would be Sakamoto.

03:10 Oh, actually, you got to throw Iwata in there. You got to throw Iwata in there. There's also, like, do we count, like, composers and things like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that's right, right? Yeah, because we already had Nobuo and everything. Yeah, so, you know, even William Wright did Raid on Bungeling Bay. So, not the... Yeah. But definitely one of the bigger echelons. Yeah, I mean, yeah. It's been a while since we've... The video game genre, right? Yeah, it's been a while since we've heard a name that is still relevant. Yeah, I mean, nobody in this room could even tell me who made Major League Baseball, and that was four episodes ago. Exactly. Correct. I have no idea for the record.

03:42 LJN. LJN did it. I remember the rainbow. Yeah, Leonard James Nimoy. Do you use that to help you, like, picture things and all this stuff? I'm off the rails now. Did you accidentally stumble on Leonard Nimoy there? It was accidental.

03:55 Anyway, time to talk about Metal Gear, which is like an action stealth game, if you would describe the stealth as such in the game. I'm sure we'll get into that. But, yeah, it's actually, like, one of the first stealth games ever. This is. And, I mean, it's still very, very rudimentary. But this, I mean, what other games are you supposed to avoid all this stuff? Right. Like, most of the action games that we play are just, like, kill everybody on the screen. Like, kill everybody. That's why going into it knowing it was a stealth game, at the very beginning, I was, like, still trying to figure out, like, what is a stealth game on the NES? Like, they're trying to figure out, like, is it going to be, like, puzzly?

04:36 Like, you've got to avoid these people by doing this? Or is it literally just sneaking around? Which is kind of what it is. But it surprised me. So just to give those not in the know, this is an overhead action-adventure stealth game. It revolves around Solid Snake, an operative of the Special Forces unit, Foxhound. Foxhound, who, and, Sean, you tell me afterwards if this is all, like, still true to the Metal Gear lore or not. Okay. But, so he's an operative for Foxhound who goes on a solo infiltration mission into the fortified state of Outer Heaven to destroy Metal Gear,

05:06 a bipedal walking tank capable of launching nuclear missiles from anywhere in the world, as well as rescue a number of fellow agents who have been captured by the enemy. That is all still canon. Cool. That's great.

05:20 And, you know, throughout the game you collect different weapons, key cards. Boxes. Yeah, cardboard is important. But the only thing you start off with is a pack of cigarettes. Yeah. And that's still, like, most games start with a pack of cigarettes. I love it. Can you actually do anything with the cigarettes? You can't actually smoke them. I tried to. I was expecting to lose a little bit of life or something.

05:43 But this is back when cigarettes were cool. I thought they were going to come in handy or something. Like, you know, some weird purpose later in the game. What they should have done is be, and again, we're getting into more complex territory. Just say it. In Metal Gear Solid, you could use your cigarettes to show the laser beams that would trip an alarm in, like, some parts of the game. And there is a part in this game where there are laser beams that could trip alarms. And I thought that would be where it would be used, but it's not.

06:16 So let's get into the gameplay. I, rather than, like, walk through this game, I actually would rather talk about, like, specific categories of the game. Okay. And we can just cut. You can go anywhere with your examples. I feel like at this point we've set up what the game is about. You have to free these agents. You have to try and be stealthy, though you can get into hand-to-hand or weapon combat if necessary. Yeah. So let's just talk about, overall, the stealth aspect of this game. Does it actually translate well on an NES title?

06:48 No. Yeah, I'd say no, but that doesn't mean that you can't, like, get past it. Like, there are things you can walk, you could be walking right next to an enemy and they don't notice you. Yeah. Things like that where it's like, okay, it's hard to make this believable. And I thought I was going to hate this game right away when I started playing it. But as I played it, I was like, okay, I can still feel like I'm being stealthy in some scenarios. There's a lot of imagination involved, but, yeah, the actual stealth aspect doesn't really work. I'll start off praising the stealth just for a few reasons.

07:21 You have to get over the jungle where you start because that is almost like it sets up for the game for you that it's going to be very hard to be stealthy. And, actually, what is stealth in this game if, like, whenever you just show up to a random place, like, they can spot you automatically, right? It's like, well, then it's really hard to be stealthy.

07:38 But I really did like that, you know, I didn't mind enemies not noticing you if you were nearby because they did face specific directions. Right. If they faced you, they would be able to detect you. But also if you were behind another object, they wouldn't be able to detect you. And I thought that was pretty smart for this level of game design, you know, being able to detect whether you're hiding behind something.

08:02 Later on, you get the cardboard box. And as long as you don't move, nobody knows anything, the better that you're there. But I also thought, like, some glitches that clearly weren't intended were fun. Like, the cameras, you can just go up against the wall. I don't even think that that... Okay, so this game is rife with glitches. Like, it is an entirely broken piece of software. But one thing that I did... This is a pretty, I think, good headcanon if it wasn't canon. But I think it's just like, if there was a...

08:37 If there's a camera on a wall and you are leaning against that wall, it's entirely possible that you're just not in the shot. You're just below the camera, yeah. And I agree with that, and that was my logical reasoning for it, too. I was fine with it. The reason why I know it's a glitch is because in the actual official version that Kojima made on the MSX from Japan, it doesn't work like that. We'll get all into that complicated history later on, but I think it's important to focus on the NES port. But I like the cameras.

09:05 The dogs, though, at the beginning of the game, that was like an option where, like, stealth wasn't even available to you. I was able to... And maybe it was just because there was only one dog on this specific screen.

09:16 But I guess what our point is right now is that, like, the dogs can just detect you automatically if you get close enough. But I was able to, like, if I just moved one square at a time, like, not wake one up, at least. I was trying to figure it out because they, like, vary, like, to a rhythm. They lift their heads and then lower them. And I feel like maybe when they lift their heads, they're, like, listening or they're sniffing or something. I don't know. But I couldn't really make it work that way. So I don't know if that's really true.

09:43 But... Yeah. And then there's also, you know, enemy involvement in stealth, too, where they'll fall asleep. Yes. And then you have, like, your moment. And did anybody ever have anybody wake up on them? I was good enough that that didn't happen. Yeah. They wake up sometimes automatically after a few seconds, right? Well, they'll say, like, I overslept or something like that. Yeah, I feel asleep. I feel asleep. Yeah, I feel asleep and then I overslept or something. But you have a generous amount of time. But I like those touches. And they don't happen right away, which helps, too, because you're not entirely sure.

10:18 I think early on in the first building, there's also another guard that will just be like, okay, my shift's up. And then they walk away. And it's like, it takes about five to ten seconds for that to happen. So you almost, like, you have to wait out some certain situations. Because if you don't, if you're just like, oh, well, I have to fight this guy, you might get into a heap of trouble. You have to do some recon. It's not just a run and gun game, even though you could treat it that way if you have enough ammo. Right, right. And speaking of, like, when you get caught and stuff, because that's definitely a stealth element, too,

10:53 that kind of progresses throughout the game what it means to, like, get caught. I don't know how you guys felt about that. After, like, a while, there's a point where, like, they'll just keep coming. Well, that's another, like, problem with this game is that, and again, comparing it to the MSX version, it was always supposed to be global alert if you were spotted.

11:15 And if you move to the next screen, you are still getting chased. Whereas, at least in the early parts of this game, all you have to do is walk off screen and you reset. Right. And actually, that kind of encourages this weird, like, well, I don't really care if they spot me because I see my next exit point. Defeats the purpose of the game. And then I enter back in and know that I can shoot this guy.

11:37 And shooting also doesn't, in this version, shooting doesn't alert anybody. Yeah. No, it does. I know it has a silencer. I mean, if you kill... If you don't have the silencer, as soon as you fire, everybody looks at you and starts running towards you. But what if there's only one guy? Well, yeah, he will start looking at you and running towards you until he hits your bullet, which is moving slower than him. I didn't always have that experience. I had that every time. Interesting. Until I got the silencer.

12:01 Yes. And I see what you're saying, but I guess what I mean is, in the global system thing, when you shoot a gun and somebody registers it, now multiple people from different screens will be coming towards you. In this one, there's no consequence. Even if you do get targeted by that guy, he's going to be dead when the bullet hits him. No, that's true. For me, it was more if there were five people on your screen already, it'll alert everyone who's already on your screen. I don't know if it called more people in or not. The stealth right now is at 50%.

12:31 It's an element that you could appreciate. Yeah. But I mean, flip-flops on being good at certain aspects and then just not really pulling it off. And that kind of makes it a less stressful game overall, though, because you have these little keys you can constantly do to get out of the situation.

12:48 It cuts away a lot of the tension you would normally feel in a stealth game. And I think this has potential to have a lot of tension in it if it worked the way, Sean, that you just said. But if it was a global alert. Yeah, alert. And I feel like, to sum it up for me, it feels like, honestly, most of the elements in this game are really well thought out and could work really well. But it's like somebody took it and it's like every aspect that's really cool is broken. Everything's broken in some way, but it doesn't work now.

13:21 And that's how I feel about the stealth. It is really cool, like you said, Mike, that you look at the direction they're facing and it actually has, like, you know, it works in that way. But then it's broken in all the ways that you can cheat it or sometimes it can completely screw you over. That's just out of your control. I'll have more ways that this game is broken as we go along. Yes, I'm sure there's no shortage. Yeah, maybe this next one will get you started. This next category, I titled it first Exploration, but I think it's more of just, like, sense of direction or thing to do. Like, your mission as it evolves.

13:54 This game is not very kind to the person who just continues moving forward. You do have to do a lot of backtracking. You do have to know your place in the building. This one would help by drawing a map. It would, but it also, in most cases, like, there is a good sense of place. Like, most of the screens do look different than each other. Like, yeah, they all have the same palette, but the arrangement and the different elements that are in each screen are recognizable enough that you could create a map of this place in your head to some degree.

14:31 So, in the very beginning, like, when you finally get through the stupid jungle sequence and into the first building, like, you will probably have the first floor memorized once you see everything on the first floor.

14:45 And it's a little harder as things go along and you're trying to find doors that were locked before. Like, that is where that really starts to help when you have a map and you can mark locked doors. Right, especially because outside of the manual, there's very little clues about where or what to go next. Yeah. You know, even in the beginning of this game, it's never implied that you should go inside the cars. And if you do, you have to go in from the back of the car to enter, like, the cargo part. Whereas, like, most people would probably think, well, if I could go in these, it would be through the front door. There is a line in the manual that says that there are things in the trucks. Right, no, totally. And that's what I'm saying.

15:27 You know, the game didn't miss that. And it is, a lot of stuff is actually covered in the manual in terms of, like, figuring out, you know, a process of elimination on what to do next. I just think that with a game that had a transceiver. Yeah. You know, that, like, the fact that it doesn't help you kind of figure out what you have to do next. I mean, you can go all the way to the first gas chamber, right? Yeah. Without your gas mask.

15:52 And only in that room. I forgot to tell you. As you're dying, he finally says, like, hey, you know, I should have mentioned this, but you should go get a gas mask. But now it's, like, it's up to you now to figure out, like, well, I never saw that thing. Where the heck is that? Okay, so the other things that happen in this game, like, it does tell you.

16:08 It just, it's hidden. So when you're walking around and, like, your secondary objective is to rescue hostages, aside from, like, the main hostage, like, Gray Fox. And when you talk to them, like, sometimes they'll just say, like, oh, what a relief. I'm so glad I get to leave now. But others will say, what a relief. I'm so glad I get to leave now. Also, did you know that there's a gas mask in this floor, on this side of the place? And, like, just really random things. And there are other times where it's, like, you should talk to Schneider.

16:41 And Schneider's on this channel. And so you do end up fiddling around with the transceiver. And you end up finding Schneider. And he's, like, this is where this stuff is. So, I mean, like, it's all there. Yeah, I would say, like, granted, it wasn't perfect in the way that it, like, guides you and directs you into where you've got to go.

17:00 But I kind of felt this little, like, satisfaction of exploring and kind of piecing it together. Like, oh, okay, so I'm going to need this now because there's gas here or whatever it is. You know, like, piecing it together and being like, oh, where was that door? Now I got this card key. I go back in there and find something. Like, oh, this will help me get through the, I don't know, the area where you've got to blow up the electrical floor.

17:19 And, you know, everything kind of comes together in an organic-ish. Yeah, I'm not trying to compare this to, like, Metroid levels of, like, where the heck am I? And then I go all this way for nothing, right? It's not like that. I think what's weirder, though, is that if, and this isn't even true on the MSX version, but if enemies, like, perma-died, right? Like, when you took care of them, it might make exploration a little more, like, it might make it more enjoyable. Because sometimes, especially on this NES version, when you backtrack, you go through doors where guards are standing right on that door.

17:57 Yeah, yeah. One of the biggest technical issues with this game is that, like, if it was on a timer, maybe, if it was, like, every 40 seconds to a minute, everything respawns. Yeah, but in this game, if you just open your menu, if you go to the transceiver, if you go and change your weapon, everything in that room that you're in respawns. And it just breaks the entire experience, because now you have to expend health. Now you have to expend ammunition. Now you have to run like a chicken.

18:30 Like, it really breaks whatever immersion that they've created through this stealth system. And I don't think that that—so that was also present in the MSX system? In the MSX version, when you go back to a—it doesn't do the reset thing when you go to menus and stuff. But when you go back, even to the stage you were just at, it has, you know, it has them there. And that's the same thing that's true of the global alert system is, like, the enemies that pour into the screen from other areas that they can enter from, they're not the enemies from the other screen.

19:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not actually tracking the whole building. That would be quite a feat. Yeah. But I actually—I'm okay with, like, the timer thing, you know, because it makes sense that, like, they would have more guards that would be able to, like— Eventually, yeah. Yeah, check this out. But then also, at the same time, wouldn't they be like, hey, a bunch of dead bodies over here. Maybe we should start, like, looking for a guy. And you start having to make Metal Gear Solid out of it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

19:35 One of the sequences that you have to go to—like, we were going back to the gas mask thing. Mm-hmm. You have—like, it's just the entire inventory system. Like, the controls are all weird on each step. Um, then you have to be carrying the card key. That must be your primary item whenever you're going into a door that needs a card key. Yeah, you have to select—you have to go in and select the card—the specific card key out of, like, 17 of them.

20:01 So you're, like, guess—no, aren't there more than that? There's eight or nine. There's eight, yeah. Um, and then you have to immediately, in this gas-filled room, you're taking damage, like, from the first frame. And then you have to change into your gas mask. And then you have to walk to the other door and take out your card key again. And then you're immediately taking damage again.

20:19 And, like, I—maybe if they just had a—this is a nitpick to an extent, but maybe if they had a separate slot for the card key. Yeah. Or if you just, like, if your card key was just something that you didn't have to select. And once you got—like, here's the really annoying part about the card key system for me, was once you get card key number two, right? Now, all of a sudden, you have more than one card key to manage.

20:42 The card key number two doesn't have, like, level two access to, like, one and two. Right, yeah, yeah. If you go to a door now and you have, let's say, key cards one through eight, and for some reason—I really don't think this is going to happen. I think once you get to, like, key card eight, you really only have to worry about seven and eight. Yeah. But let's just say, for the record— But even one through four, isn't it?

21:00 But, yeah, exactly. If you had to, like, try to guess, like, oh, which door is it this time? Is it level five? Like, you have to select through, select equipment, select the key card. It's a lot of menuing for nothing. I think that people that might defend this system would say that, like, if you're just going to simplify it down to an upgraded key card, then that removes some, like, puzzle elements or challenge. But you still have to find the key card. It's really just adding busy work in your inventory system.

21:31 Like, it really—it should just be you have the key card. You now have access to all these doors. You don't have to select anything. You have the next key card. All right, you have access to all these, too. Like, it shouldn't even be a selectable item. But, again, this is also, like, a new—not a new idea, but it's an iteration on boss keys. And so I can kind of—like, from the time that this was made, I can forgive this mistake. Me, too. But it's still very annoying.

21:57 Yeah, I mean, they could have went even more aggressive on this if you think about it. You might have had to actually, like, go to the menu to reload. Yeah, that's true. You know, like, thankfully, it's like when you get your ammunition, you can exit the room, go back, and it's still there and just stock up as much as you want. But that's also a problem.

22:13 Like, if you pick—like, other problems with this whole inventory system crop up that are bugs. Like, if you pick up ammunition before you pick up the gun, that ammunition goes nowhere. That happened to me. I was so mad. Then I was like, where was that ammo again? I don't know. I don't remember. You have to go pick up more ammo now. And then when you—if you're in a room that has an item, like rations or ammo, all you have to do is go into the menu and come out, and there's the ammo. Right. You don't even have to leave the room.

22:38 You have to leave the room. Every time you find ammo, you can very easily just max out your ammo. Which is—I mean, of course, I did that every time also. But it is kind of sad because I feel like with, you know, you get 20—you find ammo with how scarcely you do find it, and you get, what, 20 rounds? Yeah. Then it is kind of this ammo management kind of level of the game that we're kind of missing out on because you don't really have to do that because it's really easy to just get as much ammo as you need. I don't know if it's like a RAM issue or— Yeah. But a lot of things could have been vastly improved if this game had a longer memory.

23:13 Yeah. Like, you just, like, remembered enemies dying, remembered—I don't know. Yeah, because, no, it's all exploitations that are too easy to ignore. Right. Right? Yeah. Like, you almost, at that point, you could do some of these things on accident. Yeah. You could be like, oh, well, my health is low, so I'm going to eat the rations right now. And then you exit out of the menu, and it's there in front of you. Yeah. And you're like, hey, that's exactly what I need. That's how I discovered it. Yeah. And that's what happened to me, too.

23:37 And before I knew about that, I was—I don't know why I'm hung up on this, but I did think it was really cool when I was playing that, like, every time I would fire the gun, I would think about it. I'd be like, wow, do I really want to waste this bullet? Like, it had some weight to it. And then afterwards, I was like, I guess if I get caught, I can just shoot everyone. Like, it's not a deal. Right, right, right. Right. And we'll get to combat, but the next thing I wanted to talk about was finding the agents.

24:01 Okay. And the reason specifically, if I can make a topic starter here, it's because this could have been an added element of the game that could have been a lot cooler if they were not—if they didn't feel like such a natural progression part of the game. They're only hidden behind door key cards that if you're playing this game correctly, you're checking everything anyway.

24:21 Right? Yeah. You don't know when the next, like, important item is going to be, like, you know, the next weapon you find is going to be behind one of those doors. So you're checking for everything. I almost wish that the agents required, like, some kind of—not puzzle solving, because I understand that would be very hard to do in this overhead aspect, but some kind of, like, extra—additional searching.

24:42 I liken it to, in the first building, there's that rolling log. Yeah. Right? And you go to one side, you've got to get the plastic explosives. Then you go down again, and then you let the rolling log come by, and then you exit out the other way.

24:56 Little things like that, or the pitfalls, you know? Having things like that make it perilous to get to the agent would have been more rewarding than just, well, I'm going to see what's behind this door because I have to check every single thing. Oh, it's an agent. Great.

25:10 I think then you would— I'm going to free them. You would need to also—I know that you get, like, a class upgrade for every, what, five agents you get or something? Yeah, I don't know how it happens per agents, but that class thing is important. Yeah. But I think you would also need more of a—because you can go through this game without getting most of them, if you so chose to.

25:36 I think you might need a little bit more of a carrot to—if you're going to add extra challenge to get to these guys, I think you need more of a reward for getting to them. Well, I think the rank is actually really important, though, because if you're, like, rank four, you can hold so much more ammunition. You can—you have double the health bar than what you start with at rank one.

25:57 I think— All right, I'll concede that. That's actually a really good incentive because that, like, makes you feel stronger as a player. All right, I concede that. Yeah. You know, it reminds me of in Legend of Zelda how, like, you can beat Ganon with whatever you have at your disposal, right? You really only need the sword. You just have to get to the room. But no one's stopping you from picking up the white tunic, you know, or the—it's not the master sword in that game, but the more powerful sword. Like, you can get those things, and when you get them, you feel better as a player. It's the same thing with the agents.

26:30 The thing I don't like about the agents is that they're—there's not really, like, a discovery system to them. They're just there, and so it feels natural that you're going to progress with them. It almost feels like it's just punishing people who don't check every door. True. But I feel like in this game— And they do also give you, like, a bit of information. Right. In this game, as a stealth game, it's almost like you want them to check everything, you know? Like, you want to encourage that kind of behavior.

26:58 So maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Joe, any thoughts on that? I'm in. I agree. Okay. Cool. All right. So now let's talk about the combat of the game. And this includes all the weapons, so if anybody wants to talk about some cool weapons or anything, I'm totally down to talk about those things as well. But just, you know, now that you have just your fist to start, how do you feel with just your fist? I mean, I feel vulnerable with just my fist, especially around the dogs.

27:29 But thankfully, as soon as you get into the building, if you check another truck, you're going to find the gun, and you're going to find some ammo. And then you just feel a lot more comfortable. And I feel like it does a good job of, because if you sneak up on someone and use your fist, you win. Like, it's really hard to lose if you get the first hit in.

27:52 But then if you get caught and a couple people come over to you, you might be in some trouble, which is a good way of kind of right off the bat rewarding stealth. And, like, no one had really played stealth games before, I assume, back then. So it was a good way of kind of showing people right away, like, you want to stay hidden in this game, rather than just do what you probably do in most other games you played at that point, which is just go all in. Yeah, having the gun alert, I think, is a better design decision. We got into the ammo thing already of, like, when you don't have a lot of ammo, it is a tense situation.

28:30 But not, you know, I actually appreciate that they made it that it's one shot kills anybody for the most part, other than the guys later on who have, like, they look like they have body armor on or something. So that makes sense. But I like that they have the one hit kill thing. But at the same time, when you're being, like, rushed by five or six guys, and you just, yeah, and they go in a single file, and you just shoot them down the line, it's like, maybe that's how it would happen in real life. But I have to imagine that a terrorist organization would be a little more tactical. Maybe they wouldn't be just running at you. They'd be using their guns. Right, right, right. Exactly.

29:05 Sometimes. Sometimes they use their guns. In fact, there's one guy early on in the jungle. Yeah, he's very trigger happy. Yeah, when you go into the van to get the first key card, he automatically spots you. It's like the immediate, I don't know what they were trying to teach you there, but you have to, like, just get up very close to him and punch him. Yeah. And knock him out. And I don't know about you guys, but, like, replay throughs of this, sometimes I just would, like, fuck up the first couple of punches, and then he would, like, just get out of my way, start shooting at me. Then I'd go run towards him. He'd move in a different place. I was like, who is this guy? He should be in charge.

29:43 He should be in charge of this organization. He knows what's good. So you get the handgun. You have the silencer. You got a couple more thoughts? Well, I got a thought on what you said about them running at you single file and being kind of easy to take out once you get caught, which, again, harkens back to the global alert system where that would at least – even though everyone's easy to take out, there's a consequence to the fact that you're using your gun and you're making a commotion.

30:09 That would, I think, be the, like, remedy there. I don't think even – I think the fact that we keep coming back to this isn't just that we have the foreknowledge of these games end up having global alert. Right, right. It's that even if I were playing this for the first time in 1987 or 1988, I would expect the people 20 meters away to also hear this. Right, yeah. So, I mean, I think it's very – I think it's deserved criticism to keep bringing it up. So we also have the plastic explosives and the landmines.

30:46 Not entirely, like – I didn't use them very often. Yeah, not entirely useful. I think the landmines are good in certain routes for the enemies. Like, if you see a guy who's walking around in, like, a square or something and you don't want to try to just, like, sneak around him, you can leave it. Yeah, also, like, a couple boss fights. Yeah. Yeah, there were a few times where I was being chased and I would drop him and at first I was like, this is great.

31:11 I'm being able to kill these people without having to turn around and fight them and then I can get off the screen. Then I realized, like, oh, but I can just get off the screen. Just get off the screen. Which brings me back to the global alert system. They're going to bring up after every point that I make. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the plastic explosives, they do come into use at the very end of the game against the supercomputer. You have to plant 16 of them against the supercomputer. And it's just like – I think you can also just use the rocket launcher, though. Hmm. I wonder.

31:42 Maybe. But maybe you would need, like, a lot more rockets. I mean, I – yeah, but again, it's ammunition that just – Right, that you replenish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. For some reason, I remember, like, I think someone in the game tells you about the 16 thing.

31:56 I don't recall that. Yeah. But also, if you don't want to do that, I thought you were going to hint to the other thing. That is, if you enter the room with the supercomputer at the end of the game and you immediately, as you're up against the door, just hit the right button on the D-pad, you'll get warped to the final boss.

32:12 It'll just – it's just a mistake in the game that'll just take you right to the final boss and you won't have to worry about the supercomputer or escaping the room or anything like that. You're totally fine. You go right to the final boss. So if you don't have 16 explosives on you, maybe try the right button. Because you may defeat the final boss, but the supercomputer is still at large. That's true. And the supercomputer – You can't really beat the game. But does a supercomputer have Wi-Fi?

32:35 No. Okay. Then I don't think there's a much of a problem. Yeah. It's just contained, you know, pure evil or whatever. Yeah. He's just seething. Right. And then – oh, this one was cool. The remote-guided missiles. Yeah. That was unexpected, right? Yeah, I did not expect that at all. I remember that, again, from Metal Gear Solid.

32:53 I just think it's funny that, you know, in a game like this, you can launch something and then take control of that missile. It's weird, like, seeing the character that you've been controlling throughout the game. All of a sudden, now you're in charge of this missile. It would be like if in, you know, in Super Mario Brothers, you just all of a sudden shoot the fireball, and it's like now you have control over the fireball. Or, like, if you're in, like, Super Smash Brothers and you shoot, like, a rocket and you can control it there. Oh, gotcha. But you can do that, right? Oh, you're right. And you only have Solid Snake, though.

33:26 Oh, you're right. Ah, no, no, no. You can do it as Samus 2. Oh. Sorry. Depends on the type of missile you shoot, though. She has one that's the super missile that you can't control, and then the missile, the regular missile that you can't control. Yeah, missiles. But this one was actually used in a cool place early on in the game, the remote-guided missile. Oh, yeah, to turn the switch off. Yeah, you have to, like, shoot the circuit breaker. Yeah. And then it turns off the, what I'm going to guess is, like, the electric voltage floor. Yeah. Which is just like, is nobody else walking there? Right. Does nobody go through that section? Well, they're not patrolling there.

34:00 It's funny, though. Do, like, military bases have, like, little traps like that? Like, electrified floors and stuff? Military organizations, no. Terrorist organizations, yes. I did also appreciate, like, the, like, just cute little scripting things of, like, if you walk into one of these areas that has an electrified floor and there's another, like, guard there, he won't try to attack you. He will run to the switch to electrocute you that way. I'm like, you know, a lot of the AI in this game is trash, but stuff like that, you know, adds a little bit of flavor.

34:34 Yeah. And it's clearly just programmed to do that. Yeah. But, like, hey, you know, it is something. Yeah. Then you also have the grenade launcher and the submachine gun, but both of those are just kind of, like, increased firepower to take on the heavier enemies of the game.

34:49 Yeah. Which is fine. You definitely need stuff like that. I think it would be kind of immersion breaking if I'm shooting a handgun at, like, what is the, is there a helicopter in this one? No, that's the original version. You have twin gunner or double gunner. Gotcha. Just two guys on turrets. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So at least there's some reason to it. Mm-hmm. And then the rocket launcher, which you'll definitely need because it's the only way to take down the final boss of the game, Big Boss himself.

35:18 Yeah. And is that a twist? That is a twist. Yeah. It surprised me. So this is something that I've been wanting to get into. And while this is still, again, very basic, I really appreciate how complex this world is. It's, like, in most of the games that we've played so far, you have this very basic reason to be playing this game. Whether it's digging up blocks and burying people or shooting or throwing fireballs at little Goombas.

35:52 Whereas in this one, like, the transceiver tells a story. And later in the game, not only does it break the fourth wall and try and get you to, like, and try to throw you off the tail that way. But there is a twist ending with this whole, sorry for the spoilers, this whole, your superior Big Boss is the enemy. And, yeah, it's really basic by today's standards. But, like, this is the biggest story we've played so far. And I feel like, I mean, I can't speak for you guys, but I feel like even in today, knowing today's standards, this shocked me. Because thinking of it as an NES game, I did not expect there to be a plot twist that was that, like, unsuspected. This is the biggest twist on this show since Double Dragon.

36:42 Joe, you weren't here for that episode. But at the end of the arcade version, not the NES version, when you're playing co-op, after you defeat Willy, you have to fight each other for who gets the rights to the girl. Oh, I knew that. I didn't know that.

36:58 We actually had a listener write into the show last week, Diego. He was talking about Double Dragon and his memories with it. And he brought up this funny one that I know has nothing to do with Metal Gear, but we're going to talk about it real fast because it made me laugh. He said, at the end of Double Dragon for Master System, you have to fight each other to decide who keeps the girl or something like that. My brother suggested we both jump at the pit, so both die to see what happens. He said on three, we both jump, but only I jumped.

37:31 And I think that's so funny that he has, like, that memory forever now. Now I want to know what happens. If they both jump at the same time, right? Don't fall for it. If you're ever playing Double Dragon with Sean, don't fall for it. If you ever find yourself in an arcade with Sean.

37:45 Going back to Metal Gear, though. Because, I mean, I say that the story is, you know, a bit more complex than what we played. But I guess technically Rambo tells the story of Rambo. I was just thinking about Rambo when you were mentioning it. But when I think about the storytelling of Rambo the game, it's more like a toddler, like, vaguely recalling the movie that his dad was watching. And it's like, and then he just talks to the stranger at the dock. And then there was a snake everywhere.

38:13 You do a good toddler. And now this game is actually telling a mostly coherent story with a little bit of poor translation thrown in. Yeah, just bad English is the problem. That's all. But you understand at least what they're getting at. Yeah. You know? I feel asleep is fine.

38:29 Yeah. So thank you for that, Sean. I'm not going to fight you on the story part here. I thought it was pretty immersive. I think it is weird that Big Boss can only be defeated by a rocket launcher. Yeah. That just seems strange. Well, he's big. Yeah. And he's the boss. Yeah. How big is he? He's pretty boss. But it's just like, you know, I don't know. I'm not saying give him the handgun, but if I have the grenade launcher, it should work the same, right? But only the rocket launcher will do damage to Big Boss.

38:58 And the select glitch is in total effect here. So if you want, you can always just select him back to reset in his place. All of the bosses can be menued back to their original spot. I didn't know that. Do they gain their health back? I mean, I don't really... In all the mini bosses, I didn't even fight him. I just walked around them.

39:22 So I can't really... I can't go into that detail. Yeah. I think... I can't speak for whether he does that or not. But you don't even need to know if it resets the health or not. Because actually, there's an even bigger exploit that was... Whether or not it was programmed in the game is anybody's guess. But if you just go to the top right corner, Big Boss will just stay in the lower left... Lower right corner. And he'll just stand there right at you so you can just aim the rockets right at him.

39:46 It's unbelievable. But it happens every time without failing. It's used in speed runs and everything. It's just known. It's like, yep, that Big Boss, he's really good until you put him in a corner.

39:57 All right. That's mostly what I had to say in terms of topics. Oh, the low health at the start of the game. It made you appreciate it when you got more health, right? Absolutely, yeah. I actually liked the idea of...

40:15 It was very similar to in Legend of Zelda when you get more hearts and everything. You feel like a stronger player. So I did notice that I was dying a lot early on. But in the later half of the game, unless you're being careless, you can think about your situations and plan things out. And I appreciated being able to do that in a game as opposed to in most NES games that we have. You have to always be on or at least the best you can do is just pause and try to think about what might come next. In this game, you can actually check your screen or use the binoculars, which I would never recommend.

40:51 If you're in a place that has enemies in it originally. Yeah. You can use the binoculars, see what's ahead of you. It feels like there's maybe a very small baseline of strategy added to this game that feels good. Yeah. So I appreciated that. Thank you.

41:42 The passcode system. Okay. It's long. It's very long. So there's a lot of things going on there. I mean, I guess it is saving a good amount of information. Yes. Especially with all the items and everything you have. Yeah. And the ammo for each or the amount of each item. Yeah. So, I mean, I get it.

42:04 I'm not really, it's not really going to be a make or break for me if the passwords are long. Yeah. And obviously they weren't going to put like save slots into it because they weren't, Konami was not going to pay for the batteries to do that. Yeah. So I'm fine with the password system as it is. Apparently there are some fun passwords you could put in there though. Yeah. Are you talking about the F me one? Yeah. If you put in F-U-C-K me and then fill the remaining spaces with one, like one, one,

42:38 the player to the final battle, but with no equipment. Truly telling you to go F yourself. That's crazy actually that somebody planned that and put that into this game. It's very cute. I love that. There's also some other things you can do though too with the Metal Gear passwords. Yeah.

43:11 with Bailey, whatever, Justin Bailey. Oh. You put his name in, and then you can play as Samus without her clothes on. Ah. In her swimsuit. Zero? Oh, okay. Not Zero Suit. That didn't exist yet. That was in Zero Mission. Whatever. I don't care. All right. Hey, I think you do care, actually. I think you're pretty into Samus.

43:35 He's like, do I say that on the podcast? I do. The NES version of Metal Gear sold over 1 million copies. That's a huge success. Yeah. But I need to talk to you guys about the MSX version because I did play it. I would love to talk about it. You did play it? I didn't. That's why I want to talk about it because I watched some videos on it, and I really want to play it. It is a much better game. It looks like it. It is so good. It seems like it's everything I like about this game without all the things I don't like about this game. There are better story beats if that's what you're looking for. There's better stealth mechanics if that's what you're looking for. Yep. Better graphics. Yeah, better graphics, too, and also better sound.

44:19 The music is throughout the entire game. I can't remember now. Yeah, there's music pretty much throughout. It's the same two tracks. Right, right. That's fine. It's the same thing there, too. You don't start in the jungle, though. The jungle was just a made-up thing on the NES version because you know what else was weird about that jungle in the NES version? You parachute after three other guys parachute, and we never hear from them again. They all got caught in the trees. They were unrelated. They were not part of your mission. They were just parachuting in there for other reasons. They were just tourist parachutists in South Africa. I'm going with Sean's idea.

44:55 They landed in the trees, and it's up to Rambo to go find them. That's somebody else's problem. Yes, I played through the MSX version. The map system is also a little different. It's not the same exact one-for-one as the NES. It was a maze. Yeah.

45:13 The NES took some liberties on how to redesign the game, and interestingly enough, Kojima had no say in the NES version of the game. He wasn't involved at all in the NES version. He's completely disowned this version of the game. I was reading about that, yeah. Yeah, which I would expect out of somebody as protective of their work as Kojima. Right. But also because it's such an inferior version. Right. He says the port was developed by another Konami division at Tokyo, which was given the source code from the MSX2 version without the consent of me or the original team.

45:50 Masahiro Ueno, who worked as a programmer for the NES version, also stated that the staff who worked on the port were given a three-month deadline to port the games of the NES and Famicom and were ordered to make the port as different as possible by Konami executives. Why? Yeah. I don't know, but this is a thing that is kind of common in this era. If you play Shadowrun on the Super NES, it's a completely different game than Shadowrun on the Genesis.

46:21 I think that even went into the PlayStation and even PS2 eras. I remember there being some games that were like, maybe it's different, because maybe not on their counterpart console, but I remember the game on the Wii is a totally different game. Oh, yeah. Because it had to be. Yeah, that totally answers the question. You're absolutely right, Sean, because that also happened with the Aladdin game on Super NES.

46:45 But I was thinking of this strictly as a stupid American, and I was like, why would they want the MSX version to be different than the NES version? But the Famicom also exists, so clearly they would want people to double dip on that. Exactly. Well, I own it for the MSX2, but now this Famicom one looks totally new. I want to play the one where nothing works.

47:07 Wait. Mommy, I wanted a Bolt system. It's like, you know, like, we already own that game. We have Metal Gear at home. Metal Gear at home. Yeah, that's true. Old memes brought to you by Sean and the boys. The MSX version is playable, though, without the need to get an MSX. I don't own one, for the record. All you need to do is have Metal Gear Solid 3. Yeah, it's on subsistence. I also think it's included with the HD collection. It is included with the HD collection as well. It's like a downloadable, and I think it's also on Wii? Is it like a virtual console thing? Get out. That's awesome. I think the MSX got some games on the Wii. That's cool. I mean, the Wii Virtual Console, whenever it was update day. Update day, yeah.

47:55 That's what I want to say, but I'm not entirely sure. Cool. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm glad that it's included in some regard and that this NES port is just ignored completely

48:07 because as good as I felt about the NES game, the more I played it, once I played the MSX version, I felt like I have a legal responsibility to tell everyone who's listening to this podcast that if they can, they absolutely must play the MSX version, not even if you're just a fan of Metal Gear, but just to see how this game should be done. Yeah. Everything we've complained about in this episode is mostly fixed with the exception of, like, you having to swap through the card keys. Yeah. And, like, look, it's never going to be your favorite Metal Gear game. It's no one's favorite Metal Gear game. They're lying to you if they say that. It's always your vengeance. Yeah. What about, is that the Rising one, Metal Gear Rising?

48:45 Oh, I don't know. With Raiden? Yeah, yeah, I think that's it, yeah. People love that game. That's Platinum Games, right? I think so. So people love Platinum Games. I know. There's a whole fan base right there.

48:59 Yeah, so definitely put the MSX version. It's Metal Gear Survive, I'm sorry. Yeah, Metal Gear Survive. Metal Gear, the VR missions. No, VR missions is great. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Here we go. I haven't even heard of half of these. What about Metal Gear Acid? I never got to play it. I never had a PSP. You guys are just saying, like, Metal Gear and then like a noun and then... That's basically how Kojima names things. Metal Gear Survive, though. That's the one without Kojima, right? That is without Kojima. It's basically...

49:24 I thought it was like a... With zombies or something? I thought... I think it's like a Rust-like game or a Battle Royale. I don't remember. Now, is it weird that in this NES version of Metal Gear, there is no Metal Gear? That is. I'm surprised it took us this long to even mention that. Yeah. I don't know why you would even bother making the game if you weren't going to figure out a way to put at least the sprites. Yeah. I mean, how hard is it? Even if it doesn't operate the way it did in the MSX version, just have it stand still. Have a photo of it.

49:57 It's anything. It's on the box. But that was something I read in an interview. You might know more about it than me, Mike, but an interview with Kojima where he just said that just shows something along the lines of that just shows how little respect these people have for the players. Right, right. That they're not even putting the thing that's the name of the game in the game.

50:16 Exactly. And then there's this other game, Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes. And I always thought that this was a remake of Metal Gear. No, it's Metal Gear Solid. It's a remake of Metal Gear Solid. Yeah. And the only reason why I even know about this game is because I owned it. And then sold it. And now it's worth a lot of money. Really? Yeah. I made a big mistake, but I really wanted Fallout 3.

50:43 You know what? I think that that was okay at the time. I know you don't, but... No, I'm fine with it. Again, that was my only chance to get into the Metal Gear Solid series, and I haven't. Yeah. You know, I've never played that version. Got it. Yeah. I don't know anything else to say about Metal Gear. Metal Gear. I will get into the sequels and spinoff section, but we've been doing that. Yeah, we've been doing that. So, just everything... This is a one-off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to list all the other ones. You know, we don't have to... Though it would be fun, maybe in the post-show, if you guys stick around. Sean will, like, explain to us some Metal Gear stuff.

51:18 There was a World of Power book. Remember, we talked about this for some other NES games. World of Power Metal Gear, which was the, like, scholastic version of the Metal Gear story that kids could buy in there... Oh, yeah. ...at their book fair. Like, airbrushed out the gun and stuff. Yes, it airbrushed out the gun. I got a little bit about the plot here. Big Boss is not featured in the book, but instead, two different characters, Commander South and Colonel Vermin Katafi, serve as Solid Snake's commanding officer and Outer Heaven's leader, respectively. The book also gives Solid Snake the identity of Justin Haley. Which is weird. Right. So close to Justin Bailey, too. You know, this is strange.

52:07 And changes the name of his organization from Foxhound to the Snake Men. I love it. The Snake Men. I kind of wish that they would, like, give a nod and a wink to that in some future game, but I know that that's not going to happen.

52:22 Yeah, and as mentioned, this version, the NES version of Metal Gear, sold gangbusters. One million plus copies. It was great for video games back then. So Konami was like, well, we gotta make another one. So we will be playing Metal Gear Snake's Revenge. Which is apocrypha. It is only a sequel to the NES version. It is not in the main storyline. Yes, and it made Kojima so mad that it existed that he went on to make Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake for the MSX, which is, like, official canon. Yeah, it's the official sequel. Yeah. And where does that fall in the timeline of things?

53:05 I mean, I think it takes place very shortly after the first game. I don't know the actual plot. Got it. Never played it. But this Metal Gear game, it takes place, is it the first one? Metal Gear? Yeah. Metal Gear takes place midway through the actual timeline of this entire series. Whoa. Snake Eater is the first game. Snake Eater is the first game? Yeah. Not Phantom Pain? Chronologically. No, Phantom Pain. No, yeah. Phantom Pain is later. Okay. It's still, yeah. I'm just making up shit as I go along.

53:34 All I have to do is assume that 4 is the end, because he's ancient in that game. I think 4 is the chronological end to the Solid Snake saga. Got it. I think that's a revengeance, whatever. Right, right. Because then there's Liquid Snake, right? Like, eh. He's dead. And I think I know these things, but I have no idea. I know these things you're saying ring a bell to me. These are like buzzwords to me. Before, yeah. Liquid Snake is the equivalent of, like, a dad hearing TLDR. You know, they have no idea what it means, but they're like, oh, yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that. My kid says it. TLDR. I'm like, Liquid Snake. Sean's like, shut up. You don't know shit about these games. Play Final Fantasy VII first.

54:11 Exactly. All right. I think that's good. Any other straight thoughts? Pause sound. Yes. Here we go. Not that interesting of a pause sound, but I do think we will find out eventually. I recognize this pause sound, and I think it's one that we hear in a lot of games, and I think it's in my memory from Blades of Steel. Okay. Sorry that that's the least interesting thing that we've ever said. No, it's not. I love that. On the same, like, on the same talking about sounds, the codec sound pretty much is what it was throughout the entire series, and that brought me nostalgia.

54:45 A lot of the weird elements in these games sort of surprised me that they've sort of stood the test of time, like the codec sound, like there being a fourth wall breaking conversation at some point in the game. Just the ridiculous naming conventions of the bosses.

55:08 So I think that if you just take it as the inferior version of the original game, there is still a lot to like in the nostalgia factor here. Yeah. And when you're talking about that sound, you're talking about the... Like when you get caught also. Oh. Because there's also the sound when you get spotted. Yeah. Which that's in later games, right? Yeah. And it's even more authentic in the MSX version itself. Yeah. It's even closer. Yeah.

55:34 I just have to, again, just say, like, oh, there it is. The breaking the fourth wall thing. Can you talk about that? Because I don't exactly remember. I can't remember. So... Because I remember at the end of the game... Later in the game, you will... Later in the game, you will end up being contacted by Big Boss saying, go here, and then it's a trap. Or like, go here, and it's a trap. Because he's like, he realizes you're getting closer, and he didn't expect you to get this far. And then at one point, he will call you and say, turn the game off. The mission is accomplished.

56:07 Oh, I didn't even catch that. That's really funny. Yeah. I pretty much stopped picking up the phone, honestly. Yeah. Like, when it says call, because it... Yeah. In the beginning, it's just like, hey, by the way, you're supposed to be infiltrating.

56:18 Yeah. It's like, your mission is to infiltrate. Don't get caught. Yeah. And even when Big Boss explains his whole thing at the end, like his big plan about, like, you know, I wanted you to do some of the work, but you got too far. Yeah. You're too good. Right, right, right. You couldn't have distracted him with something that wasn't leading him to, like, the goal. But at the end of the game, too, as it's telling you on the transceiver, everything that's happening, it does kind of say, like, this is your computer speaking. Yeah. Like, we want you to know the people that made this game, and then goes off to list them. Yeah. It's the credits. Yeah.

56:55 Always good stuff. Yeah. That's another thing that, like, I vaguely know about in Metal Gear Breaking the Fourth Wall stuff. Psycho Mantis. Like, I know that he reads your memory card. I have no idea what he does. Yeah. Let's do the Essential Games list.

57:12 I mean, so we've been talking about this game at length. I feel like at some point in the last five minutes, you actually did your Essential Games list, like, speech. Accidentally. Would you like to give it to us? Yeah. I'll say that, like, while this has a lot of nostalgia factor, and it was fun, because I hadn't actually played this game fully before this episode. It was sort of my excuse to finally do it. Like, it was a cool exercise in exploring the lore of a franchise that I like, but don't entirely understand. And, like, the lore of the game itself and the stories surrounding the franchise.

57:57 But, like, since there's... Like, as this game exists, there is a superior version that, like, wasn't really... It wasn't really available in the States, but it still did exist. I can't put this game on the Essential Games list. It's so broken. Like, I can't put a broken game on the Essential Games list. So, I imagine you guys are going to feel similarly. But that's my vote. That's my vote. All right. And that's one down. Joe? So, I said at the beginning that when I started playing it, I immediately thought I was going to hate it, just because of the way it played. I surprisingly had a lot of fun with it. Like, I really enjoyed this game.

58:37 It's really our first time, I feel like, having something so big. Like, feeling like you really are infiltrating this base and you find all your clues as you go and everything. Big but contained. Yeah. I don't mean necessarily big as in, like, literally, like, a big map. It looks like we've had big. Yeah. The size of Resident Evil. But, I mean, this feels like it's a pretty... I shouldn't say the biggest, but, like, it's a pretty big experience. Yeah. Like, I feel like going back to it, you're like, okay, where was I again? What information do I have? You know, it's pretty immersive.

59:10 Yes, the problem is that it's broken. And I keep having this, like, memory of when I was playing Skyrim. I was playing Skyrim on the PS3 when it first came out. I know, bear with me here. Okay. And there was a glitch that I didn't realize had been patched. And the glitch was that if you touch water, your game crashes. I didn't know that. And I still enjoyed playing Skyrim that way, but it was really, really annoying.

59:39 Until I realized it was patched out and I fixed it. But that's kind of how I feel when I'm playing this. Like, wow, this is such a cool game, but nothing works. So that is the biggest reason why I, as much as I want to, I also can't put it on the Essential Games list, but I can't speak to the MSX version, but I really want to play that. And I feel like maybe if I played that, that one could get on the Essential Games list. The MSX Essential Games list. Yes, when we get to that. Right, right, right. Whenever, somehow.

1:00:10 All right. Here's what I have to say about all this. Forget that there's another version. Forget that this game is so well-contained and tells a great story. The biggest problem I have with this game is that the flaws that are in this game, for me personally, it's fun despite all of these flaws, right? Yeah. It's so much fun to actually play this game. But every single time something happens that you don't want to happen, you kind of laugh it off. And you're like, oh, this game would be a lot better if that didn't happen. I'll keep playing.

1:00:47 But man, I wish that didn't happen just now. And you just keep going and going. And then eventually, you might die and get reset back to a point that's just a little too far for you for that day. So you just write down the password or whatever and kid to yourself that you're going to go back. You know? I'm not speaking for personal experience here.

1:01:04 But that's how I felt about this game overall. So it can't go onto the essential games list for me. But I do have to call out that it's fun. Especially I feel like this game is more interesting now than it was maybe when it first came out. It was maybe too obtuse back then. It's so innovative. And it's aspiring to be something so much bigger than we've seen recently that you have to give it credit. What is it? Like Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future when he's like, you know, you guys might not like this, but your kids are going to love it.

1:01:43 It's like, that's how I feel about this. I feel like it could actually be appreciated more now, especially with everything we know about Kojima. Like being able to like, imagine if you could go back to one of Spielberg's like earliest films that like you don't even know about and be like, oh wow, this was the inspiration for so much of his stuff. You can't because you'd watch Duel and be like, oh, that's weird.

1:02:04 But like, you know, imagine if you could. Like that's really cool. And so I think that's kind of what we're getting here is like a glimpse of like Kojima thinking about video games in a way that not many people were thinking about at the time. And you can sort of see the little cogs of like how it all works and like, oh, this is what they were trying to accomplish by doing this little trick. Right. Because even the MSX version isn't flawless, you know, but there's a cohesion between story,

1:02:31 gameplay, and level design here that is more advanced than say something like Super Mario Brothers, which nails everything it does. But maybe, you know, like after a while gets outdated of playing it a lot. Whereas in this one, you know, as long as you're not beating the game, you're constantly exploring like new stuff all the time. It feels fresh as you go. So I appreciate it, but sorry you're not making the essential games list.

1:03:05 Maybe Snake's Revenge. Maybe. That is all the time we have for this episode of Nostalgia. Join us next time because it's been a while since we did a baseball game. It's been a wild five episodes, but we are going to do another baseball game. And it will be RBI Baseball. That stands for Runs Batted In. Thank you. Oh, I thought it was like really big integer. Just, wow. Maybe. That's actually more compelling of a stat. I would like to know, you know, Mark McGuire's really big integers.

1:03:40 But also like RBI Baseball. It's like, why go off of Runs Batted In? Why not like, you know, home run baseball? That's probably already taken. You know? Because that's too showboaty. All you need are RBIs. I want OBPS baseball. OPS. Whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I guess like, yeah, OPS is different than OBS. So yeah, you're fine. OPS is like the culmination of OBS plus like your average. I thought it was on base plus. Yeah. Go get off. Yeah, let's just do it. Yeah. We'll get off this boat. Join us in the post show because, which is happening in like two minutes because Sean is going to tell us all of our dying Metal Gear questions. I'm Michael Esposito. You can find me on at Esposito Film on Twitter and I'll talk to you soon.

1:04:53 Welcome to the post show. Thank you for having me. The first one where, yeah. I'm here too. Joe. Joe's here. We are going to right now on the fly come up with questions about the Metal Gear saga, as I'm going to call it. Would you call it a saga? That's my first question. Okay. All right. It's a saga. Great. One question down. We'll alternate. Okay. My question. Who is Metal Gear Solid?

1:05:20 Okay. So it's not a person. What is the Metal Gear? Metal Gear is basically a walking tank that has the capability to launch nuclear warheads to any place in the globe from any position. Should I have not said the Metal Gear? Do I sound like someone saying like the Google? It's kind of like that, but it's okay. Yeah. Okay. So following up on that, why does he need to walk? If he can launch them from anywhere? Because there's also anti-personnel weapons that can be used with typical warfare. Got it. Okay. So he's a walking nuke machine. Yes. Is it like sentient or have it like AI or is it controlled?

1:06:03 It is not sentient. It is controlled by a person. Okay. Is Metal Gear... I think. Is Metal Gear a like recurring villain? Metal Gear, not a villain. It is a thing. Okay. That... Would you... It launches nuclear warheads. But it's like, is the...

1:06:26 Like, is the Death Star a villain or a place? Yeah. I understand. I understand now. Much better. I guess I was rolling off of Joe's tension question and just not listening. So there are new Metal Gears and Proto Metal Gears in pretty much every game that I've played. Got it. So the Metal Gear Solid 3, right? Yes. Snake Eater. Yes. That one takes place in like the 70s? Yes. So that one, the game is easier because the technology is less? The game is easier? Yeah. Like, you know, the technology... If you're playing these games in the future for the most part and then you go back to the 70s, the technology isn't as good. So the game must be easier.

1:07:08 Right? Like, the enemies can't be as hard. That checks out. So Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater. The big thing you're trying to destroy is like, it's what Metal Gear was before it turned into like a walking mech. It's basically a giant... It's just a big tank that goes really fast and then shoots an ICBM and it's called the Shagohod. And it's... I mean, it's not as sexy as a big walking tank. But, you know, it's still a thing.

1:07:42 Yeah. That's what that is. Great. Okay. Cool. So this is a little bit of a vaguer question. But, you know, knowing about Metal Gear Solid, what I hear about the most is like just how convoluted and confusing the story is. Yeah. It is entirely on the same level as like one of your Kingdom Hearts games. That wasn't where my question was going, but it was in the back of my mind.

1:08:07 What element makes it so confusing? Is it the clone thing or is there something like... It's the same shit. Is there time travel or something? It's the same shit. Like, what is it? It's the same shit. Like, I mean, spoiler... Whoa. No spoilers.

1:08:18 Yeah. Seriously, no spoilers. We've been spoiling things. No, no. I just think it's funny. I think it's funny to have to do this without spoiling. Without spoiling too much. To Joe's question, it's like, yeah, is it time travel? Like, what is the actual... Yeah, like, what could be the element of the story? So, not only is there this whole geopolitical mess that's going on and it's a soap opera on that level, but there are also characters who are clones of other characters who have doubles that are different characters.

1:08:44 Sounds remarkably similar to Kingdom Hearts, but like not Disney. Yeah. So, it's almost self-parody. Metal Gear, right? Yeah. Nuclear warhead thing, right? Japanese. Godzilla. Also Japanese. True. You know, formed from a nuclear warhead, right? Yeah. Not in the same universe as Godzilla. But not in the same universe, but if they fought, like, you know, Godzilla versus King Kong's coming out. Yeah. Godzilla versus Metal Gear.

1:09:14 Who's winning? I guess it depends on which Metal Gear, because there's Metal Gear, there's Metal Gear Rey, there's Metal Gear Rex. I think that Metal Gear Rey would win. Okay. But it's really, it's really a, like, who's turf are we on sort of thing. Metal Gear Rey. Wow. This is, that's pretty crazy. I just saw. Right. Yeah. R-A-Y. Not to be confused with Rey Skywalker, the definitive best character in the Star Wars universe, says Disney. I thought it was, oh yeah, no spoilers for anything. Yeah. No, no, no spoilers for Metal Gear.

1:09:53 Yeah. Okay. Another Metal Gear question for you here. Okay. The cardboard box thing. True. That's a reoccurring thing. Very much so. If you are in the box, right, in like, let's just say any of the later Metal Gear Solid games, and you move while you're in the cardboard box, would that alert anybody, or do you have like free roam while you're in that box? So you would basically trigger a suspicious mode for the guard that you're near, where it'd be like, huh? What was that? And then he would very lackadaisically walk over to you and investigate, and then open the box, and then you'd hear the, uh, which would cause an actual alert, unless you were able to distract him in some other way.

1:10:36 Gotcha. Okay. Metal Gear Solid 4. Yes. Did you play all of it? I did. Okay. Does he get younger in that game, or does he die? Don't tell me if he dies, but like, but like, like, like, is it implied essentially that like, this would be Snake's last adventure? I will tell you that he does not get younger in that game. Got it. Okay. So yeah. Did you hate the character in Metal Gear Solid 2 that everyone like hated that you play as? I wasn't a big fan of him. Yeah, it's Raiden. Um, he's like, you've got, it's, it's a question of taste and culture. Like you've got the very alpha snake who is entirely just, um, just, uh, Russell, I'm sorry. Uh, what's his name? Russell Crowe. No, no, no. Brad Pitt?

1:11:25 No. Okay. Russell Westbrook. The basketball player. He's just Kurt Russell. Oh, Kurt Russell. Kurt Russell. He's basically just Kurt Russell from Escape from New York. That's what the character's based on. Got it. Um, and then you've got this weeb shit with Raiden and, uh, it can, uh, it can turn some people off. Got it. Yeah. That makes it. That checks out. Psycho Mantis. Only in Metal Gear Solid?

1:11:51 I think that he makes another appearance. Cool. Okay. Um, Psycho Mantis in Smash. I would love to see Psycho Mantis in Smash. Just like reading off, like, other game stuff. You like to play Fire Emblem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. Uh, okay. I think I'm good on questions. Joe, anything for you? I think I'm, I'm done. Other than what was any of that you all, you just talked about. Who's Psycho Mantis?

1:12:15 Don't worry about that. He's a guy in Gas Mask. Don't spoil it. Um, also now, Sean, it's your turn to ask me and Joe questions about Metal Gear. Okay, so in your, uh, from the information that you have at this point, um, do you know what Grozny Grad is? I would say no. Grozny Grad, it's a holiday. Right? That they have.

1:12:37 Um, would you say that if you were crawling in a very small cave, like you had to crawl through the cave and you happened upon a crab with a knife, do you think you could win a fight with that crab? Is this, does it? Like if you had, if you were in like a crab battle. Is it a giant enemy crab? No, it's just a crab. Oh, okay. Like normal size, but he's holding a knife. He's holding a knife and it's claw. And, yeah, and it's claw. Uh, I think I could be, I could be a formidable opponent to the crab. You think so? Okay.

1:13:08 Um, uh, I, I have another one here though. Do you know about Metal Gear Ghost Babel? No. Babel? I don't. Whatever it might be. It's a Game Boy Color game for Metal Gear. I had never heard of it. Well, it's a thing. Uh, I will also state for the record that I am not an expert on this series and a lot of these games I have a very foggy memory of. That's fine. Uh, I just think it's interesting because there's also apparently a Metal Gear in Snatcher. Um, oh, the original. The Kojima, yeah, one of his first games. Yeah, the game that he wrote, uh.

1:13:39 That's weird. That's on Sega CD if you want to play it in North America. Um, it's like a, it's like an ally. Hmm. Yeah. And it's mini. It's tiny. It's like a companion character. That's cute. I like that idea. I've never played Snatcher. Gotta play Snatcher. Gotta play Police Knots. Yeah. I haven't played that either. Like Scribblenots. It's like Scribblenots, but with the police. You can only fill in like you're under arrest. I think it's just like a visual novel, isn't it? Yeah. You actually just write in subpoenas.

1:14:02 Yeah. Um. I think that's more of like a DA thing. Yeah, that's probably true. Um, it's, it is like a visual novel, but there's definitely also like some, some gameplay to it. Okay. Yeah. Uh, would recommend, we all check that out. We should just do that. Let's do it. Kojima, you're the man. Um, he's, he's cool. He's a cool dude. I wish that you got to make Sound Hills. I'm sorry if you're listening. We'll be playing. Thank you.