195 · Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

• FRESH FROM THE CLASSIC COMICS COME HEROES IN A HALF SHELL
• NES Longplay
• Introductions
  • Interesting they referenced the comics and not the TV show
    • The reason why the Turtles all wear red masks on the cover is because that's how it was in the comics.
  • Joe, we have a lot of experience with TMNT. I’ve been working with them since 2014.
• Overview
  • Platforming game where you play as the 4 teenage mutant ninja turtles traveling through NYC to stop Shredder and other foes
• Story
  • Starts off - Rescue their reporter friend April O'Neil, who is being held captive
  • But there is a lot of story in the game
• Gameplay
  • The Turtles
    • Switching between them
  • Exploring NYC
    • In some levels, there is a specific objective (obtaining an item, defeating a boss, etc.). However, in most levels the goal is to reach the exit and return to the overhead map in a previously inaccessible location.
  • Bosses
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • The game has three sequels: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game in 1990, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project in 1991, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time in 1992.
• EGL
• Next week - TMNT

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, fresh from the classic comics come Heroes in a Half Shell.

00:21 Nostalgia And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Guys, what can we really say about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? What do you mean, Mike? Yeah, there's so much to say about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Are you stupid?

00:47 I guess I'm a little stupid for asking two people that are very hostile, but I guess what I mean is, is like, you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the NES game, is just like such a small fraction of a gigantic franchise. Do we even bother like going into the nuance of all of this? Do we just talk about the game? What do you guys feel like talking about? Joe, what do you feel like talking about when it comes to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I mean, I feel like talking about its relation to all its other games. Because I personally, as popular as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were, I was introduced to it through the video games as a kid. This is one of the few games that I played growing up on the NES. Not too much, but I played a little bit.

01:30 Oh, that's surprising to me. Sean, what would you say about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I'll say that all of my, you know, of all the bluster and hostility that I had earlier, I don't really, like, I was never really into the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Like, I played some of the, like, the beat-em-ups. That was really the top of my exposure to it growing up, though.

01:58 I really, I can actually just leave if you want. No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. Some people here are more acquainted with the Turtles than others. But it sounds like none of us really watched that first run on TV, the 1989 series that it's, like, super popular for, the one that blasted it off into, you know, Turtle Mania. Is that true? I did not see that. You're correct. I mean, I probably, you know, it's one of those shows that maybe I had, like, caught an episode of or two when I was a kid and I had nothing else to watch. But, yeah, I wasn't super into it.

02:32 Although I do remember, you know, I remember one of my good friends and my neighbor would always watch, um, would always watch the live-action movies. And I would watch those with him and I would like them, but I would also think, like, wow, this is kind of weird. But I liked it. Weird how? You know, it bothered me that they were, like, just so obviously people in Turtles. Monsters? I don't know. Oh, okay. I feel like I just wanted them to, uh, just stick to animation until they were able to make it look... I mean, look, knowing now as an adult what went into those costumes, I know how impressive they were. But still, like, as a kid, I was just like, well, that looks fake. I'll wait until the PS4.

03:15 Right, right. And it's funny, Joe, because you say, you know, like, you, you know, like, make them wait. But then we did get the, uh, you know, the Michael Bay iteration of the Turtles.

03:25 They're what you wish for. Some people might tell you that, you know, like, the costumes were better than the CGI. I'm sure they were. And I'm sure the plots of those movies were much better. I mean, I watched this when I was a kid. I don't really... All I remember was thinking, well, those are costumes. You know, it was my, you know, eight-year-old brain. Well, I've done a lot of work for Secret of the Ooze, actually, and that's the second movie. And I can tell you, the amount of times I've seen that movie, uh, it's awful, actually. So, uh, I'm glad this game isn't based on Secret of the Ooze, which is really not even a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. Can you say that? Are you allowed to say, uh, to say that about that movie?

04:00 I think so. I think I'm allowed to say not only... Yeah, Mike, Mike, Mike. You love that movie. You tell me all the time how much you love that movie. Yep, yep. Uh, I love that movie so much, and the reason why I love it is because the turtles don't fight at all in it. In fact, they, uh... It's a character piece. Yeah, they don't even have weapons anymore. Yeah, I heard that, actually, that's the only Turtles movie where no two lightsabers touch.

04:22 I don't understand. That could be true. Anyway, to get back to the point, uh, I was trying to get to the nice segue we had at first, because we were talking about the 89 TV show. So, it's kind of interesting that the back of the box referenced the comics instead of the TV show. I would think that the comics, having their limited run and everything, was more of a niche thing that definitely, like, started the interest in the turtles, but that the TV show on, you know, national television was the one that really, like, brought it up to speed and made the, you know, they made the toys out of that and everything, and that was the one that propelled it into the franchise it is today.

04:59 But you'll notice that they're, they're definitely didn't make a mistake by calling out the comics, because even on the box, the box art here, the turtles have, um, they're all wearing the red masks. It's not, uh, you know, orange for Mikey and stuff like that. It's each one of them has the red mask, and that was something that was only done in the comics. So, they were definitely saying, we're going for the comics here, not for the TV show. But, like, in the game, they have different colors.

05:26 Yeah, but that's, like, again, like, that's something where I think, you know, it's almost like two different design teams worked on this, right? Like, the box and the marketing was done by one section, and then the game was, like, probably, you know, updated along the way.

05:43 We just have to, we're just going to have to keep, keep changing stuff. Well, because I don't think anything, I don't think anything in the game is based off the comics. I don't think any of these were plot lines in the comics. You don't remember the fire people when they attacked? Fire people are, those are real enemies.

06:02 I imagine that, like, yeah, that, like, if the plan was to base it on the comics, somebody somewhere down the line of production was like, hold on, we can't do that. This, people recognize now the, the TV show, we need to change it to that. Maybe there was some sort of, you know, some sort of miscommunication or something that didn't line up between the creators or something. Yeah. And also, you know, Sean, just to go back to his name is Fire Freak. Oh, okay. You, you should know him very well, because he's an ex-pyromaniac from Brooklyn. He's, like, right up in your hood.

06:36 Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't here yet, you know? Oh, okay. He doesn't, like, walk down the street occasionally and be like, I'm on fire. I'm on fire. No, he's, he definitely is probably moved out to the, like, the Hamptons or something. I'm sure all of our listeners assume whenever there's, you know, cop cars in the background of our audio files that they're just reporting for Fire Freak.

07:00 We won't talk about Fire Freak too much longer. Let's, let's get into the, into the game here for a second. This is a platforming game. I feel confident kind of saying that. It's a platforming adventure game, we'll add, where you play as the four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You can switch at any time between Mikey, Raph, Leo, and Donnie, and you're traveling pretty much through the, the city, but also, like, the sewers of the city and the warehouses

07:26 of the city. You're just basically traveling through New York City with the main goal to stop Shredder and, and some other foes along the way, but stop Shredder from, what is it even that he really is after? Cause the whole thing is like, you gotta help. I think he's just like, yeah, he's just challenging you to come get it. Like, he's just like playing with us. It's like, Hey, I got Splinter. Like, you know, just try and get him.

07:49 Yeah. He's the bad guy. He's, he's doing bad guy things. Yeah. But before we even get there, I mean, like, you know, it starts off with like almost a mini episode. Yeah. You know, of like a larger plot where it's just like, you know, April has been kidnapped by Bebop and Rocksteady. And now you have to go like save her. And that feels like it's going to be the whole game, right? Like you, you get told that April's been kidnapped and now you're like, great, that's my mission. I gotta go like, you know, we're the four Marios and we got to save the princess.

08:18 Yeah. It turns out to be like sort of a prologue. And from then on out, she says like, I'll provide support. And then she doesn't do anything. So you're really just on your own trying to find Shredder after that.

08:35 Yeah. I thought I liked how they turned that trope on its head a little bit. Cause I used to always think that, you know, Final Fantasy was the first thing to do that, to do the whole like, oh, go save the princess like every other video game. And then you get there and it's like, aha, there's a whole deeper plot here. And it turns out TMNT on the NES did it first.

08:55 And, you know, even though that is just like a mini-sode, if you will, or like just the prequel to the real game starting up, there's a lot of story in this game. And I don't know, I was a little surprised by how much storytelling they're doing in an early NES game like this. Did you guys think, I'm not saying like, did you think the story was complex or anything? But like, was it cool that they actually tried to tell a story where you're traveling through New York City and your mission kind of constantly evolves?

09:25 I guess so. I mean, it seems to be more like just, they seem to be like episodes of a TV show. It's like, oh, well, here's the damn episode. And here's the Rescue April episode. And here's the, I'm driving a truck through the winding streets of Manhattan episode. And I didn't really see them as like a coherent or a cohesive whole.

09:51 But yeah, at least there's like, there's different settings at least. The story is kind of, like you said, it just kind of reveals the next plot point. It's not, it's not this grand adventure or anything like that. You're just kind of moving along. You know, there's like the overworld map, right? Where you see from like a top-down perspective, the turtles exploring the city or if they're not in the city, wherever they happen to be next, like the dam or the secret headquarters. But then there's also like, where is the dam in the city? Okay, where is the dam in New York City? I want to know that too.

10:28 But, you know, more importantly, I guess it's like, it's not, there's not levels, right? There's not like stage one, stage two. There are platforming portions of these, you know, whether they're the warehouses. They're like dungeons. Yeah, they become a side-scrolling platforming game where you have to make it from one side to the other. But not all of them are necessary. Not everything that you have to, like there's no specific objectives necessarily.

10:57 It's an interesting take on the platforming genre where they could have totally just done like, here's stage one, you start in the sewers and your goal is to free April by the end of the level. You know, instead they really branch it out and try to make, you know, maybe unnecessary paths, but paths nonetheless. I thought that was a neat new approach.

11:17 Yeah, I love the idea of, I love the idea of having this, like instead of an overworld map, like Mario Brothers 3, Super Mario Brothers 3, having this like overworld world that you walk around on and maybe there's, you know, maybe there's that little bit of like interaction with the overall world as you figure out, oh, I should go to this, you know, the dam or I should go to this part of the sewer and do that level because I want to get this item or I want to do this thing or like this should be the next part of my goal.

11:48 I do think though that they, it's a cool idea, but they didn't execute it on it perfectly because like you said, like it's a lot, I feel like there are a lot of dead ends and there's a lot of times where you're just like, I guess I'll just go into another sewer until I figure out which one's the right one. Like there's no, I feel like there wasn't enough to that whole overworld. I love the idea, but I wanted more from it.

12:10 Yeah, it felt very much like a classic dungeon crawler where, you know, you're going to find little dungeons to explore and they may have rewards, like in some cases like a pizza or some shurikens, but you also may just be wasting your time and maybe that pizza is really just going to cover all the damage that you accrued just getting there. So, yeah, a lot of it was sort of like not necessary, but I guess it does add to the scope of the game at least.

12:47 Yeah, it feels like, you know, there's two thoughts to it. Either it was one of those things where it was intentional in order to inflate the game, right? So that it takes longer and you're not really sure what you're doing and you get to experience more and try new things.

13:01 Or it could have been, you guys ever like go to those mini golf courses where like the final hole usually has like a complex system of holes where like you shoot it into one and then it goes down to another area. Like that's what this should have almost been is like theoretically, any way, which way you go progresses you in the story. It's just that one might take you to like the more dangerous area or another one might help you progress, like skip the next level because you found the back entrance to the warehouse. I feel like that's what this game was actually like trying to do in some ways, but instead you just get like what Sean was saying, the prizes don't even really become prizes at a certain point given how much it takes to get to them.

13:48 Yeah, what you're describing sounds like telltale game design for adventure games, but I think it works better in a system like this where you may get a different gameplay experience, but you're always moving forward. Yeah, or getting a good enough, at least getting something that's like substantial enough of a bonus that's not just another weapon that you could find in your regular levels anyways, you know, for the ones that aren't moving you forward.

14:19 All right, let's talk about the turtles, which the manual wants you to know should not be confused with the beetles. I don't even think that's funny. I think it's funny, like it's so not funny and doesn't register that that makes it funny. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's like now it's funny. So you got to laugh at a Sean. That was me. You know, but I guess like it could have, yeah, not to be confused with like, you know, the Italian Renaissance guys would have been like, I guess more on the nose.

14:48 But so the turtles here, you know, forget about the switching mechanic for a minute because I feel like that's a whole different thing. I just want to talk about what it feels like to control the turtles because there's not much changing between the four of them. So if you just think about platformers we've played or even like more adventurous style games that are side scrollers, right? In these kinds of games that we played, I feel like the first thing I noticed right away is you usually don't get a sprite this large as your character. These are some of the largest sprites I've ever seen for a platformer.

15:27 And I think that's like, that's where my problems kind of start is in some ways the worst part of this game is just what it feels like to be the turtles. They're always in these claustrophobic environments where they can jump so high but it doesn't matter, right? Or they can, you know, like they can reach things that don't necessarily need to be reached. And they just like feel like they're bonking their heads or they're walking into enemies that it's just not necessary. I almost wonder if this game,

16:02 if they had the turtles just the size of or the smoothness of a Mario or even a Mega Man, right? Mega Man would probably be more on point with the different power-ups that the turtles have. Just if they had that kind of layout to them, would this have been more fun for the side-scrolling perspective of it instead of having to do the chore of just, I don't want to say even just the movement in general, but like being these characters, I didn't feel particularly strong or dominating or even like a Ninja Turtle really. I just felt like I was a guy on his way.

16:39 Yeah, this feels like, okay, so developing a Ninja Turtles game with the control scheme that it has and the actions that you can perform to me feels like developing a Batman game with like Resident Evil style tank controls. Like it just isn't conducive to like the kind of property that they're developing for and they already have like the beat-em-up genre, at least the early iterations of it to like sort of draw from. They just didn't think to do that.

17:18 So instead we get this really weird combination. I didn't know that the Turtles could jump like three stories. I didn't know that that was a thing that they did. If the game property, if the Ninja Turtles are about martial arts and different melee weapons, I feel like they should have put a little bit more into making that feel good instead of like just press the button and that's all we got.

17:44 Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like the whole, the whole point of this is to feel like a ninja and that doesn't happen when everything kind of feels like you're trudging through mud the whole time. You know, everything feels, we've had other games that feel this way too, but it's, but, but they're not always necessarily as bad because you're not, you're not expecting to feel fast and to feel nimble.

18:05 Um, you know, I will say as far as the sprite size, I feel like we have had other games that like have this, like even Castlevania or, or like Metroid, don't they feel kind of like it's the same size sprite, but something about those games. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, you're right. Metroid, Metroid is a good example there. Yeah. But something about those games feel a little better,

18:23 you know? Yeah, the level design. you're, you're, you're primary, oh yeah, but Metroid, you're primarily using, like firing a weapon, you know, like a projectile rather than using like melee and while there's projectiles in here too, just something about it feels so much slower. Everything feels, I mean, the best way I can put it is like, yeah, like you're trudging through mud to do it. Yeah, definitely.

18:43 And you got to keep in mind, we have a great ninja game on the NES. We, we put it on the essential games list, it's Ninja Gaiden, and the way Ryu controls in that game is, is just really cool. Like he's always moving fast. He, his melee attacks, while not being like incredibly varied, I mean, it's the NES, but like his melee attacks, they feel good to make contact with the enemies. I think somewhere between

19:09 the way, the slowness of the turtles and just the way that their weapons behave is the two things that just immediately to me, it's like, I'm convinced I'm playing a turtles game. I, you know, like everything about the story and the look of the turtles and, and the environments, like I'm all for it, right? I'm, I'm believing it, but I don't feel like I'm a Ninja Turtle when I'm playing this game and even when you switch between the turtles, which is just something that is done pretty clever where you just like, similar to Mega Man's powers changing between screens, you just pause,

19:43 select which turtle you want and it's an immediate swap in. What a chore it would be if you had to go to like the base or, or a nearby area to swap between turtles. It's great that you can swap them on the fly, but it really doesn't mean much unless you, uh, unless you chose Raph, in which case, you know, your, your weapon sucks. So now you're basically like, you know, you have even less range, like at least with the other guys, they have a little, you know, they have, they have good range on their stuff, but they still don't do enough special. Like I would think Donnie's bow would be a lot different than what, you know, um, Leo could do with the, the Katana. Like something about that.

20:21 It just, it doesn't feel right that they're basically just like, Oh, the lengths at which they attack are different. Yeah. It should be, it should be cool stuff that makes each turtle feel unique. Well, you know what? Like between, between the fighting, not being all that great and the trudging through mud, it seems like the developers of this game went more turtle than they went ninja.

20:49 Sean, go back to your show.

20:54 And then what's funny about, what's funny about this whole, like, since we're talking about the combat for a minute, um, the, the forget that like, you know, the Katana, the bow, the nunchucks, which again, like the nunchucks, the nunchucks, what a cool opportunity to do something interesting, um, for Michelangelo there where like, you know, maybe he could, I don't know, spin them around and, and do a little, give him like some kind of, give him some hover ability for a second, right? If he can, if he can spin them fast enough, I don't know. But the,

21:22 the other power-ups in this game are like, I don't know, they're not like the boomerang, for example, right? Not necessarily something I associate the Ninja Turtles with, I'm sure you could find a comic panel or an episode where they used a boomerang, but it doesn't feel Ninja Turtles and yet that weapon is just so much more useful and better than the Turtles' main weapons. Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially you can, I mean, you can catch those,

21:45 right? You can, you can pretty much, if you're good enough with them, you can use those forever, they don't run out. Right, which you would think you would appreciate, but then they give you like 15 of them too or something like that when you pick them up. So, uh, you gotta be pretty bad to lose them. Like, you gotta be consistently losing 15 of these guys.

22:01 Yeah, yeah. I don't know, I feel like that they, it was just a whole, you know, missed opportunity with these weapons in general. I do think that the projectiles, if you have them and you can spare them, are usually better to use than the, than the main weapons. But also, I don't know, like, the manual seems to at least try to like, try to sell this, this idea that,

22:21 that it does make a big difference who you choose and whose weapon you're using. Like, there's like a little, description of each person and like, what they're good at based on their weapon. Like, but like, I don't know if any of that actually really changes anything. Like, Leonardo says like, oh, he's really good at attacking enemies in the sewers, especially the ones that lurk overhead. I don't know what. Well, I guess that would be, that would be true in a way, maybe because of like,

22:46 the, the distance he has so he doesn't have to necessarily be on the next platform above. Yeah, like he can reach from below. But it's not as useful as that. He has a longer staff. Right, right. And it's still, it's not as useful as they're portraying it to be.

23:01 The only thing I could imagine is that the, the power that they, the damage that they do does matter from like, a boss perspective where you actually have the health bar and everything. Like, I could see what they're talking about when they say like, Michelangelo's power is only average. Maybe he just does like, the nominal amount of damage to each boss. Whereas like, if you had, um, Raph, he might do more. Right. And I, and I was thinking that as well,

23:26 just to, my point is that I just didn't notice any of that. Like it wasn't, it wasn't prominent enough. It wasn't effective or it didn't change anything enough to, to make me even notice it. Like, I feel like if you're, if I can play through a chunk of this game and not even notice the difference between the turtles, then you haven't made the difference between the turtles good enough. you know, there's no reason, I don't feel a reason to switch between turtles other than I want a turtle with full health when my turtle has less health.

23:51 Yeah. In fact, I don't feel a reason to not, to stop using Donatello because he is the one that I did notice. He just has a longer reach. So like maybe he's doing less power, but like I didn't really notice it. It seemed just always better to use Donatello to me.

24:11 So we talked about the, the level design being a little claustrophobic or maybe just, you know, not, not platforming friendly given the way that your, your turtles move. But how about just the, you know, the amount of enemies in a, in a particular level or the,

24:31 the, the jumping challenges, the actual platforming challenges that they give you sometimes are like requiring of, I don't want to say perfect timing, but near perfect timing or other times you think you might need to jump, but then it turns out, oh, you can actually just walk over this, this hidden block. Like it, it doesn't, it doesn't actually count. They won't fall through. There's a lot of weird instances of like, just things that I don't know whether they programmed into it or not, but I certainly feel like these levels have a lot going on in them, but I wouldn't say it's a lot going in the right direction. It seems like, uh, they designed, they designed the level, like geometry

25:09 in one way, uh, for, you know, I guess it's, it's sort of, uh, side scroller-ish, um, but then they designed like the level layouts as if this was a shmup. Like you, you'll get, you'll get like these enemies that sort of spawn in these patterns and you're supposed to attack them in that pattern and then you have like random, uh, like mines and stuff that you're supposed to avoid or attack and, uh, it's, it's really busy and it, it doesn't really seem to,

25:44 uh, do much more than slow your frame rate down and frustrate. Um, so, they also have some problems there for me. Yeah, yeah, it's, something about it feels like, maybe this is just because I've played the other Turtles games on the NES and on the Super Nintendo and I, and maybe that's just my subconscious playing in, but like something about the whole game feels like it should just be a beat-em-up. You know, not like this action-adventure platformer, but like I feel like all, what, I don't know, it all kind of gets in the way of like what I want to be doing which is like fighting enemies that feel like enemies and not just feel like,

26:20 ops, not that these don't, these feel like obstacles, I mean they are challenging but they just, they're all just things that kind of walk at you and you gotta, you gotta attack them or fly at you. Like, I don't recognize any of these as Turtles enemies. Are, are they? Do we know if there's two-legged, pink, walkie, ceiling guys? Uh, the stick-em-ups?

26:39 Sure. I, I don't, I have no idea. That was an issue for- I wish, I know, I wish I, I wish I could be more specific but like, you know, there's definitely, there's definitely some Turtle stuff in here. Um, it's just that whether all of these guys were actually Turtle things is like not something I would know offhand. Yeah. But yeah, overall I do, I feel like it's like finding its, its footing but I, I will say that the levels as far as like the environment, taking the actual gameplay itself out of it for a second, the environments and like the, the feeling of like going to, to new places and stuff are really well done. Like, like I think everything is really nicely designed and like this,

27:19 it is fun to kind of go through these, these environments and to feel that progress. It's just the actual moment-to-moment gameplay sort of robs that from you. Right. And I appreciate that, you know, sometimes the, you know, the specific objective of a level is different, right? Like, I know we probably have to talk about the water level at some point but like, it, in a way,

27:43 like it was really smart of them to then like have that be about deactivating bombs that you have to find, find under the, under the, are you in the sewer at that point? No, you are in the, you're in like an underwater cave system with overgrowth and yeah, it's under the dam. Got it. Something makes me wonder like if the dam is damming this underwater cave system but I guess that's neither here nor there. Right, right. And so, but you know, like it's neat that the objective changes every now and again and I will agree with Joe that like the, you know, the traversal,

28:18 when you come out of a particular area of the side-scrolling part and you come back to the overworld, it is cool to see where you wound up and then think about like, okay, well where am I gonna go next? And I mean, that's even enhanced later on when you're in the, the party wagon and you have to, you know, like roam around town I did like that. I did like that that was a whole other system for this overworld that had, that actually had some engaging gameplay instead of like just going from place to place.

28:50 Right. Yeah, I like that a lot too. And for the record, I wasn't only talking about the overworld. I am even talking about the, the side-scrolling levels. I think that they're, they're really well designed and they, they have a really good aesthetic that makes them feel like

29:05 what, what visual design, We're going for in each places. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just that, it's just that something about the, you know, the enemies that are just sort of plopped in there or the way that you move just makes it a little more of a chore to go through these things. I mean, you know, I wish I knew the answer, but whether or not these enemies are, even are like official TMNT enemies, I don't see why they wouldn't be. They, I feel like they've got to be,

29:26 but whether or not they are, like, they're all cool on their, on their own right. Like they, they definitely all behave differently. And those, those guys who are like legs with spikes coming out of them, right? Or the, uh, the search helicopter things, uh, those robots, like these are early enemies, but they're, they're unique enough from just generic

29:49 Goombas or, you know, like it, you know, more advanced Koopa Troopas. Like they, they behave in a way that is kind of fun. It's just that there's, there's so many of them on the screen. And even if there's not a lot of them, that's why I was saying it's like a shmup design.

30:03 Right, right. It is. And in some ways it's more beneficial if you're trying to like live through this game, it's more beneficial to kill maybe like your immediate vicinity and then just continue to move forward. Like ignore everything else. You're going to make damage with a lot of these guys. So you might, it's in your best interest to just kind of like clear the way through and then get out of there. And I don't think that, that's really like a fun thing either. You know, I like taking care of bad guys. Taking care of business.

30:57 Speaking of taking care of business, there are bosses in the game too. a bunch of ones, and these ones we know are from the Bucketurtle franchise. Yeah, well, we know. I think you know Shredder. I know Shredder, but that's where it stops. You know Bebop and Rocksteady? I thought those were from Cowboy Bebop. Oh, interesting. Wow. No, I'm kidding. Okay, thank goodness. I just needed the clarification.

31:23 Even the Technodrome, I know that. So I'm glad that all these things are in the game and, you know, they're big boss fights and everything. How did we feel about the boss fights? Were they something that was like a step up and challenge? Was it just like fun to fight these bosses? Was it a chore? Sean, your takeaways? I mean, I don't think they're the worst iteration of like side scroller bosses. Like they are sort of, they all sort of have the same design of just like, here's the weak spot, hit the weak spot, do the thing, blow it up.

32:02 So, so I mean, they weren't poorly done. I did like the art a lot for them, especially that weird, like he has legs, but he doesn't have arms. I don't know, he's giant. I don't know his name, but yeah, I did like some aspects of them. Joe, how about you? They were average. You know, they were, they were better than I think like the rest of the enemies in the game.

32:25 But, you know, sometimes I feel like I'd fight one and I'd be like, oh, that was a challenge, but it was still, it wasn't like any like really good boss patterns or anything for the most part. And, and I even had some times where I don't know if it was glitches or what, but like, I think it was as early as, I think the second or third boss you fight is Rocksteady, the rhino. And he like just stopped.

32:45 He, he like, he like charged at me a couple of times and he just like stopped at his back turn and I just rapidly hit him. He just wasn't moving or attacking and I just killed him. And I was like, is that supposed to happen? Or like, is it, does he just that slow to turn around that you could just kill him and, you know, in one second or I don't know. And there were, there were a couple instances of things like that. And then there were others where, where it would be a little more challenging, but never like even on par with like other good boss battles we've seen on the NES. Yeah. Uh, you know, real time follow up for a second fire freak, not an official TMNT character,

33:22 only shows up in this game. Okay. Oh, you were so, you were so ready to call me out on that. No, no, actually the opposite. I think it's weird now that fire freak is all over this game. Like he shows up even in the later levels and it's like something that they just invented as an enemy for these turtles. I think that a lot of these are invented. I, I think so too, but, but you know, foot clan soldiers, anybody, that could be anybody.

33:53 That's true. Like, like, you mean like anyone could have been recruited into the foot clan? Like that could be your, recruited into the foot clan. Or you could just say, no, I'm just saying you could say any of these enemies are just foot clan soldiers. And then that just like works in. Yeah. To the, to the, you know, to the enemy environment, right? Like you can just call them enemies. Fire freak is just a foot clan soldier who got set on fire. That's the real story.

34:16 Um, back to the bosses for a minute. I do think it's surprising that, um, you know, the bebop and rock steady or the, uh, the version of you, the turtles, um, the gray turtle that you fight. Like, I think it's surprising that those battles seem to feel more like one-on-ones, but when you get to the bigger bosses, like the technodrome or the big Mouser, those are easily exploitable actually. And not even just like, I'm not being like, Oh, I watched this YouTube video and figured out the cheat. I don't know. Just read any of the strategy guides and big Mouser specifically is just something where like, as long as you're in the very middle of the screen,

34:56 the, he only ever just shoots lasers out of his eyeballs, which are to the sides of you and then exposes his weak point. So it's like, you don't necessarily like you might create more trouble than you need to by think, by out thinking the bosses for what they're capable of. And I think that's a funny situation to be in. Maybe that's the challenge is to think simply. Right. You're like psyching yourself out. Yeah. That's what they were going for. They wanted the challenge to be, to, you know, to challenge people to not think. And, you know, one more thought about the bosses, because, uh, not that I like, I'm not claiming I made it to the end of this game, but, you know, through the use of, uh, you know, the future technologies that we have today,

35:38 the shredder, um, the shredder boss battle is, uh, is like something that is, you know, very lackluster because it's one of those things where like, you see shredder, you attack him and you're like, Oh, like this is it. Like, you know, I'm going to take, I'm going to take on shredder. And it's supposed to be like one of those one-on-one boss battles, but he really just has like a lot of health. And then you think like you defeated him and he'll turn into like super shredder or something, or who knows what will happen next, right? Like that, that's just the, the phase one of the final boss, but no, that's just the end of the game.

36:13 It's just, it's just a one-on-one boss fight with shredder. And honestly, if you have like, if you have Donnie, you could attack him mostly while he's still like loading in. And, uh, maybe he makes it like a platform or two ahead and then he's done. it's really strange that, uh, shredder. I mean, maybe that's the point is that when it comes down to it, it's just another ninja running the, uh, you know, running the enemy crew, right? There's no, like shredder is just the man behind the curtain. And you're like, Oh, he was just a regular guy after all. Yeah. The moral is that like, you have to be ready for disappointment. Um, no matter whether you're a Ninja Turtle or if you're,

36:50 a middle school kid, you know? And it's funny that, yeah, it's funny that like, this is, this is the scope. We get on a, on a fairly long, uh, story and adventure. And again, I'm no TMNT expert here, but I'm surprised that we didn't see the Krangs or, um, anybody from the, when the turtles go up to space or anything like that. Like maybe those storylines didn't quite happen yet or anything, but there's just like so many turtle tropes that I know. And this game has, uh, you know, like the bare essence of it, which is why I'm just so shocked that they would even include enemies that aren't real life turtle enemies. Like, do you have to pay for like the, the, the license for each enemy, like a la carte? Um, was, is that sort of something that happens?

37:33 I don't think so. I feel like, especially not back then. I mean, I feel like this is like pre, you know, like Disney and Sony owning Spider-Man kind of thing. I feel like back then, like one, it was just like, everything was just owned by one, one company. Right?

37:48 Like, I guess, well, not everything was open. Like, you know, there were like, I feel like properties weren't like split like that, you know? Yeah. I mean, who knows? Maybe it was, but, but Sean brings up a good point because in the manual, like every major character gets a trademark next to their name. I noticed that even like Michelangelo and Donatello, like their names are trademarked. Like those were, those were other people before the turtles, but you know who they're talking about. Yeah, but you can't trademark their names. I now trademark Albert Einstein.

38:26 We kind of dodged it for a minute there for when we were talking about just the different objectives. but I feel like most people are going to want us to talk about the water level because that's where the experience of playing Teenage Ninja Turtles ends on an official NES cart for a lot of people. It's definitely where my journey ended in, in the normal playthrough. you know, I've, I've continued to play the other levels through some interesting methods, but the, you know, the water level in itself, it's, I don't know. Like, I didn't think it was going to be that bad. You have to thread the needle over and over.

39:02 And, uh, like the, the time limit you have to like, there, there are so many constraints. Like this is like hardcore mode. Uh, but it's the regular game. I, I never would have thought. It's like the third level. Yeah. And you, you have so little like slack, um, whether it's the time or if it's just the room that you have to get around the electric, uh, I don't know, seaweed or whatever, um, to diffuse these bombs. It's, it's insane. It's also kind of a common, you know, idea, especially back in the eighties that like water levels suck, like in the way that they control a lot of times. Right. But this is like, I feel like a new level as far as the control is like,

39:50 when you go, when you try and go like up, you can only really go like up and forward in this weird way. Like everything, I don't know. Everything pushes you like not exactly in the direction you're trying to go, which makes it so much harder because, because you are threading the needle this whole time. It feels very like it's very stacked against you.

40:10 I feel like if they just made the sprite, like one pixel smaller for, for the, um, for whichever turtle you're using and maybe had the, um, the speed at which you move in each direction, like normalized, it might've been a little bit easier and, and, and could be expected to, at least on your second or third play through,

40:35 uh, be confident that you could get through there. But like, no, I mean, I, I tried this many times the normal way before, uh, going into more interesting methods of, uh, going forward in the game. Um, but no, I, I couldn't do it, but it doesn't start off all that, all that hard though. Right guys? Like, I feel like it's very, um, you know, not, not like that controlling the turtles feels any better than them walking, but I didn't understand like what was going to be the big thing until like you continue along and you're just like, wow, I'm taking a lot of damage from, from all of this. And I'm not sure I'm going to be able to survive it. Let alone the time limit.

41:12 Yeah. You can't even really tell if you're going to hit the like seaweed or not. It's, it almost feels like luck. Like sometimes, a little bit of a crapshoot. Yeah. And you are like, like to, to Sean's point before, like about being like maybe a couple of pixels smaller as it stands, like you are exactly, I mean, it looks like exactly the amount of pixels that fit between some of these seaweeds. Like you are like, you have to be literally like to the pixel right in between there or else you're dead.

41:40 Yeah. And you're always slowly falling. So you have to find the correct rhythm of swimming, uh, to keep you at that exact level. Uh, it, it's, it's hardcore. Right. But my method to get through this was just to, was just to, um, switch my, uh, just switch turtles every time I was low on health. And that at least got me through it. This is actually the first part in the game that I realized that you could switch turtles. I had not been switching in the middle of the game. I only switched once I died. See that, that is something that I only learned. I only learned that after this level. So that makes a lot more sense.

42:19 Yeah. And it did make it a lot easier, but on the other hand, it's like, yeah, it's, it's a lot better than doing it without switching, but it still feels like I'm cheesing the game a little bit. Like, it feels like it, it actually took, like, I don't know. I just feel like it should have been designed a little better. So I could have tried it with one turtle, but it almost seems impossible with just one turtle. Okay. But pretend that they remove the, uh, even just the density of the seaweed that, that, that shocks you, right? Like pretend that we just, you know, make that a little more scaled back, but it's still there. I'm not saying remove it entirely. The time limit's still the same.

42:53 Um, the, the bombs are still hidden. So there's a chance you could go all the way to the end of the level and miss the very first one and not know about it. Um, would, would the water level then not have the stigma around it? Is it, is it really the seaweeds doing, is that really what's, what's pushing it over the edge? I think it would still be memorable insofar as like, if you remember the game, uh, it's, it's different than the rest of the game, but it won't be, it wouldn't be as meme worthy.

43:23 Yeah. I feel like you'd still be like, wow, this water level sucks, but it wouldn't be like notorious for being impossible. I think that it's the, the seaweed that like makes it almost impossible to get through there is what makes it like the, the one that everyone remembers as, as like that level that just, that just stopped your game.

43:40 Like in your progress in its tracks. Yeah. And you see it as almost like from the developer's perspective, it's, it's another set piece, right? It's no different than getting the party wagon or, um, the plump, right? It's like, it's just a cool, another engaging story moment. But I just feel like, did they really like play test that and successfully do it? And often enough, like, did they really think that it was worth the sacrifice here?

44:05 Because I feel like as much of a slog as it might be to be the actual turtles, I feel like you remove the water level and a lot more kids actually wind up beating this game over time. But the water level might be something that they just never overcome. Did you guys use the map? Like, like, was the map legible to you? I didn't even attempt. Maybe if I studied it for a little bit, but like sometimes that map is just like, looks like, just like a dot matrix.

44:36 Well, my biggest question is, are you the, are you the red? Like, what is the boundary? Is the boundary the red? I don't know. Are you allowed only in the blue? Is the blue the boundary and you can only go in the red? I, I was a little confused going around. Well, the land is blue. Yeah. Like, the land is blue. There's no water. Uh, I, I'm not sure how helpful the map would have ever even been to be honest. Like, like when, when did you get lost? When were you like, I need to, I need to do some serious backtracking because I, I hit a dead end and I have no idea where I am. I don't think that happens. Like the map is like this, this grid, right? Right. But it doesn't feel like,

45:17 like a bunch of square rooms. You know, it doesn't feel like legend of Zelda where there's like, Oh, I can see that this whole, this rectangle room is this rectangle on the grid. And this, like, I'm sure it is that in actuality, but it does not feel like that. So it's, it's really, it gives me no context to like, to like feel like it would be a comfortable way to keep track of myself, to keep checking this map. And I just liked that in one of the later levels. It just says like, I have no radar, so I am lost.

45:50 Well, I like that. Cause that's at the end when you're at the headquarters. So, um, the, um, you know, the idea is, is that like, you know, there's, there's no way anybody could have detected this base or anything. And so you shouldn't be able to get a map of it either. There's some environmental storytelling right there. Right. I mean, that's a metal gear thing at one point or another, but I, I think what you were calling out even more importantly is just the, the broken English of the statement. It sounds like it's coming from one of the turtles. Yeah. Like, cause it's usually like just the map itself. And then April or splinter gives you a tip on the, uh, on the bottom left.

46:25 Uh, so now that like, they're, they're still giving you tips, but the map has text on it. It definitely looks like it's coming from the turtles. And now in this universe, I can't help, but imagine that in this video game, the turtles will just speak broken English all the time. They didn't quite get good at learning. Yeah. I've lost track of map. So now I am lost. Or maybe it's the maps, like the radar software. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's the radar software saying that the radar itself is saying, I am lost. Seek higher ground.

47:26 The turtles will return, uh, with three sequels for, uh, for this particular franchise, teenage band and turtles to the arcade game. We'll be playing that teenage band and turtles, three, the Manhattan project. We'll be playing that. And teenage and the turtles for turtles in time. Now we won't be playing that one unless we, by some miracle, uh, get all the way up to super Nintendo stuff, but turtles in time, I think is the one that like, for some reason, everybody just knows everybody loves it. Uh, it's the version of arcade turtles that people think about, but there is another NES turtles game.

48:01 Um, I think it's just like a tournament fighter style game, uh, which is really interesting, but it came out like so late in the, uh, in the NES's lifespan, like 94 or something like that, that it's now like a rather collectible item, but we will get to that one and we will play that one. So we'll be playing three more, uh, three more turtle games, but there's only, uh, three sequels to this one. They all kind of build up on each other.

48:26 Are you looking forward to seeing if they can improve the, the control of the turtles at least? Uh, are we expecting completely different games? Uh, the next one is called the arcade game. Should we just be expecting a, a different game out of that? I am. I, I don't know if, if this is, this had to have been a learning experience for them.

48:46 Yeah, I am. So when I mentioned at the top of this episode that, uh, that this is a game I was exposed to, that the way that I was exposed to it mostly was like, yeah, I used to, I used to get games from garage sales. I had a bunch of like old games that I bought for like 50 cents because it was after the eighties and everything was cheaper. Uh, so I had like tons of games and I would just, every once in a while I'd pull out the NES and I would try and play a game and I'd be like, oh yeah, I love that Ninja Turtles game, you know, so I'd plug, you know, sometimes I'd put this cartridge in and I would, uh, kind of immediately be like, oh, it's this one.

49:17 And then I would play like the first like part where I'm in the sewer or overhead going into the sewer, play like a level and be like, ah, I kind of want to play one of the other ones. So like I, I had played all of the, not, well, other than the tournament fighter, I have played the other two, um, turtles NES games. So because of that, I am definitely expecting, uh, something different than this because I, I really loved those games, particularly the Manhattan project. Oh, I'm looking forward to it then. A little tease from Joe there.

49:48 Well, we've been talking about the Teenage Turtles for a while now, and I think it's time, um, you know, there's no turtle puns left for me. Is there, it's turtle tastic. Yeah. It, it, we're going to end the shell-abration.

50:03 How do you not have turtle puns ready? I know. It's funny. Cause like, we haven't, we haven't really addressed that Joe, but like, I don't, I don't think we really have to either, but like, it's funny how little we knew about these older turtles because we only work with the new guys. Yeah. For the most part, only new guys I did do. I did, I did work a little bit with the eighties stuff. When we did like history, a history video of the turtles. You guys are talking about, um, television right now, right? Television.

50:32 Not video games. Okay. That'd be so funny though. If we, uh, if we worked on, on the video games and we're still just like unaware of, you know, like we're calling out, we're calling out the developers, developers, but then we happen to be them. Like, well, you actually wrote for the comics. Wait, who? Yeah. You wrote for the comic.

50:51 Sure. Yeah. You do whatever you want me to do. I can confirm that you did. No, definitely not true. Uh, I worked mostly with the, the 2012 turtles, which apparently people love now, but it was, it was tough times back then. I feel like a CG turtle look, not, not too many people were into that. What I like about the turtles is, is that they always change like everything about the way they look and the environment and stuff like that.

51:14 Like each iteration of the TV series is its own unique thing, but then they all follow like the same exact storyline, like every single time it's like up season four, they're going to space. Like don't worry about it. Change it. They tried to change it for rise of the teenage mutant turtles. Nobody liked that. Now it's over.

51:31 Yeah. And the rise is actually, it's funny because it's a beautiful looking series too. Like, yeah, it was stellar. Yeah. Um, but I just think that's funny that the turtles have like a limited array of what they can do in terms of storytelling. Like they're forced into these same stories over and over and over again. And everybody's just fine with the two because it looks different enough. You know, I'm sure sooner or later we'll get another television series of the turtles. That does the exact same stuff. Do you think there'll be like, uh, maybe in a future run, like an episode where the turtles,

52:01 um, like try and find their birth parents, like at the zoo or something? Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because, uh, you know, I don't know if you know this, Sean, but the turtles actually got, you know, it canonically, the turtles got their powers from the same radioactive ooze that blinded daredevil.

52:23 I wasn't expecting that. That is, that is 100% true. And it's funny because that's what, um, you know, that's what the, uh, Eastman, uh, wrote in the, in the original comic. Like it's very much implied that it's like the same series of panels from daredevil. Just like it spills into this, it spills onto him and then into the sewer grate. And then the, this, you know, in the sewer, it hits the turtles and then they just become teenage mutant ninja turtles from there. And that's cause they know like daredevil is very, uh, is like a big influence for the teenage mutant turtles, especially like the Frank Miller run and all that stuff. So you can see there was a Frank Miller run of teenage mutant ninja turtles. No, no. Of daredevil.

53:04 Which, which is like, you know, if you were, if you know anything about the turtles, uh, as colorful as these video games are and as the TV shows are, the original comic line took itself like very seriously on purpose to be funny. Like, uh, it was supposed to be, it was very gritty and dark, right? It was not for kids. Dark night, dark night return style. Yeah. This is all. Yeah. It was not for kids. It was very, uh, and it was kind of like, it was, it was shocking actually. If you think about it now from the, from the perspective of, um, of like the kids show that everybody's loved for, you know, for 35 years or whatever. Yeah. Most people are shell shocked to find that out.

53:43 I feel like, I feel like we, you got to take shell off the table at some point for the, for the, yeah, yeah. Don't be so shell of a lot. We haven't said cowabunga at all, uh, throughout this. And, uh, I don't know, again, if this is just, if this is my ignorance to TMNT at the time or whatever, but I associated cowabunga more with Bart Simpson. Huh? Like he doesn't even say it that often, but he did say it. So it's like, all right, I'll give him. I associate eating my shorts with the Ninja Turtles. Right. Well, that's my, I say that all the time to principal shredder. Well, I thought shredder always goes, shredder always goes, don't all, all good stuff here. Well, how about we, how about we move into the essential,

54:33 essential, essential games list.

54:39 Joe, summon up all your turtle power and give us your vote for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the NES game. Okay. I'll start with the good. I like the environment. I like the, the, the feeling of exploration and the feeling that you're, that you're going through these, these different areas. And, and I like the idea of the overworld. I think they could have done a little better, but I, I think it's a, it's a neat way to go about it. Going into the neutral, I think that the, the actual, the actual fighting, it's not horrible. We, we, we said a lot of bad things about it. I, I will say that like, it's not,

55:24 it's playable. This is a playable game. You know, it's, it's not like, I feel like this game has like a reputation of being like atrocious. It's not that bad, but it's also just not that good. Like, so, so in the end, I feel like not feeling like a ninja, having these enemies spawn on you very, you know, very quickly. And, and in a way where you feel like you just kind of kind of button mash to, to get through it. And, and having some things being like frustratingly kind of buggy, maybe not literally buggy, but like game design wise buggy.

55:58 I think that, yeah, a little bit, a little bit of jank in there. I think that, that, that keeps this far away from the essential games list. And, you know, I, I'm not necessarily going to call it a play it, but like, if you like it, if you like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I mean, and you like retro games, give it a try. It's not, it's not horrible, but like definitely not close to essential,

56:19 especially, I know I sounded like I'm done, but I'm not done, especially because I know, I know what to expect from future games. And I've played future turtles games and I see what they can do. Uh, so this one falls short of the mark. Now I'm done. Not atrocious. A, uh, back of the box review from Joe right there. Yes. Not atrocious. I'll vote this one on their not atrocious games list. It's the only one they had for their accolades list. They're like, anybody who's saying anything about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? And they're like, well, Joe said it's not atrocious. Yeah. In 2022.

56:55 Yeah. I, I pretty, I forgot when this was going to release. Stop it. That's good. I, I pretty much agree with, uh, the most things that, that Joe said here. Um, I, I like a lot of the, um, the innovations that they have, the, the stuff that makes it a little bit new,

57:14 unique, like the, the, the live switching of character and the overworld and all that, but the fundamentals, it's all about, it's all about football fundamentals and, uh, that they just, they just can't tackle, you know? So this is a non-essential game. All right. And that means it has, uh, it doesn't have a shell of a chance, uh, to get on the essential games list. But, uh, you know what? I'm, I'm going to give my review anyway. I mean, it's a shell of a game. Uh, that was the same one. Yeah, it was the same one. I know, I know. I'm going to come out of my shell sooner or later. Don't worry. Uh,

57:51 here's the thing. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the NES is, it, like, yes. Is it as bad as like everybody says it is? Probably not. Uh, you know, if you remove the water level, is it beatable? Probably for most people.

58:10 Could you have a good time playing this game? I honestly don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I doubt, um, I doubt you could have a good time playing this game because we played like so many worse games than what I would consider Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. and I never really found myself having fun playing this one because all four turtles basically are the same thing, which totally defeats the purpose of like why there's four of them in the first place. Uh, the, the enemies are just everywhere. So even if they are fun, it's not fun to fight them.

58:40 And something about like going into a warehouse and exploring it and then coming back out and figuring out that it was for nothing just sucks because you don't leave the level. It's like exploring warehouses in real life. Right. But you have to go all the way back through. Like you have to literally play the entire level again. So it's like, yeah, you got the pizza, but you didn't exit. Now you have full health and you have to do the whole thing again.

59:02 Uh, I don't know. I don't really know what, what good I can say about this game, but I can imagine, I just want everybody to sit with this thought of like, but what if the turtles moved like Mega Man? Like, wow, that thought, I had that thought earlier this morning and it just stuck with me. And I was like, this would have been an amazing game.

59:23 Seriously. Keep everything exactly the same. Keep all the plan. They move like Mega Man, but you can only like do melee attacks with like shurikens thrown in once in a while. Yeah, sure. Exactly. But like, but just, just the, the,

59:37 the smoothness of, of, of a Mega Man kind of character and the, and the size of a Mega Man character. I just feel like the turtles would have been better off. Now, would I have liked to have seen like, you know, some different things to happen? With their weapons or even like power-ups that make their particular weapons do different things instead of just giving them boomerangs? Sure. But I feel like the fact that like that one sentence, just make it like, make a move like Mega Man. The fact that that could change the entire meaning of this game is why it can't be on the essential games list. Because a game like Mega Man definitely is.

1:00:12 And there's a reason for that. And Teenage Mutant Turtles misses that bar. So that's it. That's where, that's where we're at. Be Mega Man. No more, no more, no more turtle puns. For me, at least. You guys can go crazy. Shellabrate all you want to.

1:00:30 And next week, Track and Field 2, the sequel to Track and Field. Is anybody expecting that? I can't wait. Yeah, I love, I love Track and Field. Well, you know what? The thing is, okay, so I do love Track and Field. And I'm sure we'll get into this. You mean like real life or video game Track and Field? Even video game Track and Field, you'll remember I said it was a play it. Oh. I really, I enjoyed it at the time. I think I called it like a contest of your controller. You know, like it's going through the gauntlet of all the things you can do. It's your right thumb versus your left thumb on the controller. Right. It's you versus you. It's a real celebration. Of the art form. Yeah, they called it a play.

1:01:15 Anyway, the, where was I getting at though? Oh, so Track and Field 2, you just can't, you can't call things like that number two. You know, like don't, don't number games like that. Just, just give it a different subtitle, right? Like wouldn't they, wouldn't they have just been better off if it was like Track and Field and more or something? I don't know. Track and Field. Sean like actually like groaned. And more? Track and Field. Yeah, Track and Field at the 1988 Olympics maybe? Maybe just like remix, like just keep it like saying the same, like Track as well as Field. Oh, okay. Or Field and Track. Track and also Field. Track as well as Field. Yeah. I like that. Track comma Field.

1:01:58 Track and Field. I don't know about that one. All right. Yeah, that's crazy. We're not going to get into that. Anyway, that's next Friday. Remember, if you're like, ah, I'm out of episodes now, they come every Friday. You don't have to wait, but if you do, uh, looking for something else to do, why don't you go on Twitter, at Nostalgia Kiss, comment and say, I've listened to every episode, and I'm bored, and I'll give you things to do. I will send you links to other websites of things to do. Yeah, I'll give you a whole curriculum. Chores. Okay? Chores, uh, you know, and you can tell me that I don't know anything about the Ninja Turtles, and that'll be just fine. Chores, you know, and you can tell me that I don't know anything about the Ninja Turtles.