364 · Little Nemo: The Dream Master

• Journey to a Land of Wonder
• Based on the Japanese-American animated film, Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland
• Little Nemo was already a 1911 silent animated short film. One of the earliest animated films.
• Which is based on the New York Herald comic strip Little Nemo in Slumberland from 1905
• The comic ran for over 20 years but had been out of print for decades before the game's release.
• Gameplay
• The player controls Nemo in a side-scrolling, 2D environment. Amazing graphics and sound
• Nemo’s main weapon is candy, which stuns enemies briefly. Does not kill them. This will become a huge problem with lots of enemies.
• Each level requires collecting a specific number of keys to progress.
  • The required number of keys is only revealed at the exit, which has corresponding locks.
  • Backtracking can be tedious when missing keys, though they are rarely hidden in obscure places.
• Various animals can be encountered and fed to grant Nemo special abilities. He can ride a Hermit crab, Gorilla, Hornet, Frog, Lizard, and Mole
• Some animal abilities are essential for progress, while others provide convenience.
  • Different animals have varying life bars, sometimes offering more health than Nemo.
  • Not all animals kill enemies either
• Later levels, especially Nightmare World, abandon key collecting and introduce a magic wand weapon.
  • Nightmare World features tougher platforming challenges with deadly obstacles like spikes and constant enemy attacks.
• It is considered a highly difficult game which is kind of funny considering the target audience
  • The game has no password system, but a level select cheat is available.
• If you beat the game 2 times in a row in your next game you will have an unlimited supply of everything.
• Arcade Version
• Released around the same time
• Known simply as Nemo
• No keys or animal transformations.
• Features two-player co-op with Nemo and Flip using short-range weapons.
• Slumberland is a 2022 American fantasy adventure film directed by Francis Lawrence. was released on November 18, 2022, by Netflix. It received generally mixed reviews from critics.

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:01 Little Nemo, the Dream Master, Journey to a Land of Wonder.

00:21 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. And I'm just going to start off the episode with a little bit of my bias here, but I freaking love the Japanese American film Little Nemo Adventures in Slumberland, which is different than this video game Little Nemo the Dream Master. If they really wanted to make it a complete tie in, they probably should have just named it the same thing. But I grew up with this movie on VHS, which is the only way it could have ever been successful because it took them like 10 years to make this film, gorgeously animated.

01:04 And again, as I mentioned, Japanese American because it was literally two different studios from two different countries coming together to make this. But like it practically bombed by all measures of like what you could imagine they were hoping for and how long it took them to get it off the ground, like 10 years to make this movie. Like I know another movie that took 10 years called Shrek, but obviously we all know Shrek. I don't think you guys know Little Nemo Adventures in Slumberland, right? I can't believe that it took two countries 10 years to rip off Alice in Wonderland.

01:38 Hmm. Have you seen the movie? Um, I heard it mentioned in, um, in Cabin in the Woods in an offhand comment. Hmm. That's really all you need to know. I don't know why I'm like taking a stance against it. I've actually never seen Alice in Wonderland. Neither have I. I don't know if it's ripping it off. But I did yesterday and today watch Little Nemo, uh,

02:03 Adventures in Slumberland. Slumberland. You watched it twice? No, no. I watched like, I watched like a third of it yesterday and two thirds of it today. Isn't it like a 70 minute movie? No, it's pretty long actually for a kid's movie. Okay. Maybe that's part of the problem. It's longer than, uh, Lord of the Rings extended. It's funny because I just watched it this morning again to refresh myself cause I have it on Blu-ray, uh, which it just looks fantastic on. 4K Blu-ray or just Blu-ray? They never released a 4k, they didn't release a 4k Blu-ray for it. I would love that. I would buy it again actually.

02:37 Okay. It's an hour and 30 minutes, an hour and 34 minutes. Oh, that's freaking long. I mean, it's longer than I feel like a lot of kids movies. No, no. It's longer than kids movies for sure. I, my, my, I was out of whack there, but I do think like a 90 minute movie could probably be finished in a day, Joe. I'm just saying that I was, I was disappointed because I thought this is about Captain Nemo or maybe his son or something. So I thought it'd be about like 20,000 leagues under the sea, but no, it's just like a kid in pajamas. I thought this was going to be finding Nemo and we were going to be looking for like a little clown fish in the ocean. See, at least it'd be in the ocean.

03:20 But this game, while being based off of the animated film, uh, the original, uh, source material, it was already an animated film back in 1911. It was one of the earliest animated films and it was in color to boot. So that's pretty incredible.

03:37 But it was that in color in 1911, 1911. Yeah. Wow. I don't know how, maybe they colored it after the fact or something. Cause I've only ever seen the color. I've only ever seen the colored version, but still pretty fricking cool. And then, um, obviously that 1911 silent animated film was like, well, where'd that come from? It's from a New York Herald comic strip back in 1905, little Nemo in slumberland. He wasn't having adventures. He was just in slumberland and, uh, that comic ran for like 20 plus years. But the most interesting thing about all of this is that that comic ran for 20 years was a big deal. Probably in right before the roaring twenties really took off and then was like out of print

04:23 for decades. So would you really want to like, you know, hedge your entire like studio, your newly formed Japanese American studio on like, yeah, you know what? We're going to bring out all audiences back together. Cause grandparents are going to be able to take their grandkids to the cinema to see little Nemo adventures in slumberland. Like that feels a little weird, right? I mean, it is, but also if you think about it, like Aladdin was a story from, you know, hundreds of years ago and you know, nobody really kids weren't like, oh, I can't wait to see an Aladdin movie until they came out with Aladdin, you know, same thing with like half of all Disney movies. Yeah. Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, Cinderella.

05:05 Well, it sounds like it, it, it went about as well as you just described. Yeah. It went pretty poorly. Right. It went pretty poorly for little Nemo, but Hey, we got a great movie in my opinion. Great movie. I think it's still held up. Joe, did you like the movie? I quite liked it, but you know, I liked it as like, um, you know, as like now I'm, I like more, it's got a little bit of like a studio Ghibli vibe and you know, that kind of like, I don't know if when I was a kid, if it would have been one of my favorites, but I really liked it a lot now.

05:37 Yeah. I see. I really liked it as a kid though, too, just because there's a lot of like the dreaming aspect of it all too. And like, whether it's actually happening or whatever, like it's very, it's a great fantasy story, but also like, is the King also like Santa Claus was like something you would ask as a kid, you know, you don't ask that now as an adult, but like when you're a kid, you're like, Hey, that guy kind of looks like Santa Claus too. You know, it was like something again, David Lynch for kids. We had it on VHS. Yeah, exactly. We had it on VHS so you could just keep watching it. And, uh, I'll tell you, it's also kind of scary if you're a kid watching that movie. I would imagine.

06:14 It's got a lot of that stuff that I feel like, I don't know, movies from that era have where it's like, and I don't think this is a negative thing. It's like, there's a lot of action scenes that probably don't need to be in like this story. But like, I can imagine as a kid just being like, Oh, here's the train scene again. I can't wait to watch this. And like, it's a lot of just really fun, thrilling scenes for a kid, you know? So yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought up the train scene too, because it's another one that's like, moderately scary.

06:46 But then like, again, something you kind of want to see too. You're like, Oh, is the train is the train actually gonna like come into the house? Like, that would be nuts. But then the actual like Nightmare Land stuff is just really scary. Like the whole like door with the like goop coming out and everything. Like what is a goop? You know, like just whatever Gwyneth Paltrow's company is about.

07:10 All right. That was good. Gotcha there. So we're not gonna make this a whole movie review or anything. But I would just like to say again, like just to show what great pains they went to and everything. Like they had the choreographer for Michael Jackson's music videos do the dance sequences for Little Nemo Adventures in Slumberland, the film that they would like watch all these people dance and then they would animate based off of that footage. And it's like, Joe, do you remember the dance scenes at all? Like I feel like it didn't, it didn't, like it didn't need choreography of that level. Yeah. You know what I remember more than the dance scenes is seeing the opening credits that had like the credits for the dancers.

07:50 Right. And I was like, Oh, they got real dancers. And then I don't even remember even like the dancing standing out to me that much. But I will say like, like I said, I watched part of it yesterday. Then I went to bed. And then today I like watched it while I was doing things. So I wasn't like fully, fully absorbed. So maybe I missed the dancing. Does this have anything to do with the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

08:12 It does not. Why? Again, I'm just trying to find like moments of where I can like have some kind of input. Because I know, I know again, Captain Nemo. Well, why don't we talk about the game then, Sean? Because surely you did your homework and played, right?

08:32 Yeah. Let's go with that. Great. So in the game, the player controls Nemo in a side-scrolling platformer? Yeah. What do we call it? Yeah. Okay, great. Puzzle platformer. Sometimes I get yelled at by you guys when I say platformer. I just throw that around to everything. Everything's a platformer. But yes, Sean, puzzle platformer. Because each level requires you collecting a specific number of keys in order to progress.

08:59 The required numbers of keys is only revealed at the exit, where it shows you how many locks are on the door. So there's like, you get to the door and all of a sudden there's eight locks on it. And uh-oh, you only had three keys. So now you're going to have to go back through the level and find those other keys. But how do you find those keys and how do you navigate through those levels?

09:20 Well, thankfully, your main weapon in this game is candy, which briefly stuns enemies for a very short, insignificant amount of time. Does not kill them. It would be quite nice if it killed them. But instead, the correct way to kill any enemy in this game is by feeding candy to various animals that you run into along the way, such as a hermit crab, a gorilla, a hornet, a frog, a mole, I think. Oh, and a lizard.

09:53 You feed them the candy, and then you kind of like morph in with them or like put on their skin. Yeah. And now you can kill the enemy. There is no like rule on what actually happens. Sometimes you're riding. Sometimes you become like, sometimes it's like this Mario thing where you're just like the Nemo version of whatever animal.

10:16 But yeah, I would have preferred some kind of internal consistency with that. But no, we don't. You just you've you somehow synthesize, synthesize. I don't know with this animal. Yeah. Well, and is it? I mean, because when you feed them the candy and they fall asleep and then once they're asleep, that's when you can like either ride them or wear them or whatever. But then like their eyes are still closed. So are you like, are they like sleepwalking? You're sleepwalking. Because you're the dream master? Like you're controlling sleeping beings? Oh, that's what the words mean in the title.

10:54 Which for the record, I might correct you if I'm wrong, you're more familiar with the source material, has nothing to do with the movie. No. That doesn't happen in the movie. He can't hijack body snatch things in the movie? Nope. And these animals aren't even in the movie. Yeah. That's really weird.

11:11 I mean, it's a cool concept. I just, that's weird to make it about this then. Well, yeah. Cause you, you like need, you, you don't necessarily need these animals, right? Like I granted some of them are kind of interested that the lizard makes it. So now you can like scale up, uh, walls that you otherwise couldn't reach and stuff like that. Or the hornet allows you to fly a little bit. Like I like these, I like them for the reasons for how they open up the platforming sections, but it would just be so much easier if your candy actually did any damage, right? But that takes away. Okay. But the thing is you do need to turn into these animals to get the keys. So you do need to take advantage of this mechanic to complete the game.

11:57 And I think if you were to- It's the entire game. Yeah. I think the entire game is about controlling these animals. Yes. So what you're saying would be to remove anything, like anything unique about the game. And now it's just a typical platform, action platformer. I think we got out of sync there. I was saying that just the candy should also kill enemies. Like that's all I was arguing. Sure. But I think that that's also kind of trivializing other things with the game where you would like, you know, if you become like the frog lizard guy, you can then jump on enemies and hurt them. A lot of the animals can't do any damage.

12:41 But I don't know. I think a part of the game is that you are otherwise sort of defenseless. Okay. I like that idea that you're defenseless in the dreams until you merge and become the dream master with these animals. I just hate how difficult this game is. Oh, yeah. It is hard. It's a very difficult game. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. I guess like the happy medium I would find is that I would wish that maybe more of the animals had attacks or different ways to attack. But yeah, I also don't think I would want the candy to do damage because it would de-incentivize me to use some of the animals. Like at a lot of the times.

13:26 I think you would still need to use them. Just for navigation. Yeah. But yeah, you would need to use them for navigation. But like that would be it. There are times where I'm like, oh, I want to be this. What is it? Like the gorilla can like smash things. Like I want to be this just so I get past these enemies.

13:43 Rather than like get out of the gorilla suit so I could fight normally. And then just like just use the animals as like just a way to get to the next thing. I agree. And I think there's some there's some instances where the animal looks like it would do damage, but it then does not. Yeah. Like the like the hermit crab. Like actually when you jump as a hermit crab in the water, like you turn into like a torpedo.

14:09 And that makes sense because then you kind of bury yourself in the ocean floor sand where you can kind of act like a mole as you would above ground. But you kind of also look like a missile that should do some damage to whatever's below you or even above you because, you know, the pointy end goes that way. And but no, like there's no there's nothing there. I think that like there are some missed opportunities for more of that. But I still like the core concept of it.

14:45 Yeah, I really like this this concept, too. And there are like it's not all just like, OK, here's this key. You need this suit to get to that key. There are kind of like times where, you know, there's like, yeah, there's like the mole where you can you don't even have to necessarily dig under these like soft ground areas all the time. But like if you have the mole suit, you can go see what's down there. And like that kind of thing, that kind of thing is neat.

15:16 Yeah, I think it requires exploration of the world, because as you'll find out early on, if you don't carefully explore the world as you're moving from left to right, just progressing through the stage the first time, you're going to have to go back anyway. Like there's no way to get around seeing every nook and cranny and finding the keys. And it's going to be a lot more disappointing to just try to get to the end.

15:42 Unless you were strategically like trying to figure out like, well, OK, I just need to know how many keys there are. So you have to lay the land here. Yeah. And how many do how many am I looking for? Because there is a moment where you always like think like, OK, I got it all. And then you go to the end and it's like, oh, I'm missing one or even worse, like I'm missing three. I was always missing one.

16:03 Right. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, where is that? And now you have to go through the entire stage. I almost wonder if it was like they should have made it so that when you get to the end of the stage, it like reveals on on like a crude map or something like the general area of where that key is. That might trivialize it a little too much, but it also is a pain to kind of go everywhere and look for it again because of the backtracking part of it, because it's not necessarily easy.

16:33 Again, because the game is not easy, not necessarily easy to get around in this game. If this was the kind of game that was more forgiving and just had like challenging platforming that you needed to navigate around, I'd be fine with it. But the enemies are a constant nuisance. Yes. So you do have to like backtrack carefully, which really prolongs the length of these levels if you don't know where all the keys are. I mean, I agree that the enemies were a nuisance in that sense, but I don't think it's even in my like top like.

17:07 50% of like NES games with like really difficult enemies, like enemy placement. I mean, I think even like Castlevania enemies are more of it and not in like a bad way, but they're way more like of a challenge and a difficult to navigate around for me than these. Well, because Castlevania enemies you have to take out, you know, like Castlevania enemies you have to take out. Like you have to clear through. Well, yeah, exactly. Here you can't clear through these enemies. Like you can get around them with all these like with all I guess like there are.

17:37 OK, now that you're saying this, there are there were plenty of times where I couldn't jump over an enemy because I was just Nemo. And yes, if that's what you're saying, then I do agree. But like as long as I had the the animal that I needed, it was always good. But yeah, I guess it's not so much that the enemies were everywhere for me. But yeah, there were times where I'm like, OK, I'm just Nemo and I'm not going to be or I'm this other animal. I'm not going to jump over this enemy.

18:05 But like that wasn't that didn't like really hinder me. So the one thing that I think would would help with just the information part of the game would be either to have like a number of keys over the total number of keys you need. I don't need to like have like an arrow pointing towards the last key or whatever. I think that hurts a bit. But I think just knowing how many you need to start can give you a better sense of how how thorough you have to be moving forward. I think that would just make me feel better. Not that that would have any actual effect on how you play, but I think it would make us feel better. And two, I think like when it comes to the enemies.

19:00 And especially how you treat them as the animals, I think it's there is some frustration there because the even the animals that do have attacks like like the the gorilla. You are a massive gorilla. And you have a massive hitbox. And yet your hurtbox is only like half as tall as that. So there are instances where you cannot attack like worms that jump at you or something along those lines because they're just too short. And there's a lot of like hills. Hills. Now, one might say that that is part of it. Like this is like the balancing of these animals. But I think like just the different. Just the different like.

19:52 Aspects of them, like the speed and like the jump height and can't fly and can't hurt, can't climb like that's already kind of doing that. So I think like just just to reiterate what I said earlier, I just think all of them need an attack. I don't care if Nemo has an attack, but I just want the animals to have an attack that can like that. That you can be pretty. You can be useful throughout.

20:44 And so once you get around the idea of just, OK, collecting keys, going along the stages and everything. How does the gameplay change between stages? Is it just, you know, for people like me and Joe who watch the movie, is it just the progression of the story? Is it like the exciting new environments? What what keeps the gameplay fresh here?

21:11 I mean, I like that there is a pretty good variety of environments and each level is like because there's so many of these games that like it's just the same tile set and a different arrangement. And that's that's really annoying. I like that each of these levels looks completely different. I like that while there are some animals that you'll see throughout the level, like throughout the game, like as the game expands, there are more animals to be. And same with the enemies, like there are different enemies that have different attack patterns, different behaviors.

21:49 I think that there's that there's a pretty good selection of things going on here. Yeah. And it throws things at you to like change it up here and here and there. Like the train scene. On the train. Yeah. And there's a level where it's largely a normal level. But then there are parts of it that are like really vertical where you're flying up a lot of the times. And yeah, like they change it. There's even one. It really doesn't. It is just the really the tile set that's changed. But it's everything's upside down, which is a reference to the movie. And and like, yeah, even though it's just like, OK, it's just the background. Everything's upside down. It like does give it a different feel psychologically.

22:31 I also was terrified at the beginning of every level when this different monster would approach me and just give me some like very mundane advice. Those are your friends. I know, but they're still scary.

22:44 You didn't like Flip? I had like Moombi or whatever. I don't even know their names. A lot of they just that they were they were scary looking, man. Flip in the movie always has a gigantic cigar in his mouth. And I just feel like you would vibe with him. Maybe. And that's Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney. Yeah. Mickey Rooney. Was that Mickey Rooney? That was it. They spared no expense. Yeah. They mocapped him for the game. Wow. But, you know, speaking of like these these other characters and like these these animals and their names.

23:26 This is a game where it's taken Little Nemo. It's given you these animal companions. But Little Nemo has an animal companion. And as far as I've seen, he's not in this game. Yeah. Where's the flying squirrel level? With Icarus the flying squirrel. There are flying squirrels.

23:42 But they're enemies. Yeah. Icarus wouldn't do that. Wait. So you're saying that one of the enemies is his canonical best friend? I didn't even think that one of those flying squirrels would be his canonical best friend. I was thinking if you're partnering with all these animals, you should be able to partner with a flying squirrel. So it could be Icarus, the best friend, like secondary protagonist, maybe tertiary protagonist. Well, they did it. It would be like making a it would be like making a Back to the Future game without Doc.

24:17 Little Nemo takes place in 1905. Like not even just when the comic strip was made, but like the movie Adventures in Slumberland takes place in 1905. And like, why does he have a flying squirrel as a as a pet? Like, would that is that like.

24:37 Well, why does it matter that it's 1905? It's the first thing you see in the game and it's not pertinent. And then there's levels later that there's like modern skyscrapers in it. So like it just seems like there was that just that was just the year of the movie. That was the year that the movie took place. Because like in the real world, obviously, none of that stuff, none of that stuff exists. Like, you know, his dad like is looks like he's like a old time banker like you would find in Mary Poppins or whatever. Like, I don't know. I don't know enough about Nemo's real world because we spend so much time in the dream world. He gets yelled at a lot. The dream world is pretty cool, Sean. It is kind of steampunk in a way.

25:19 Like fantasy colorful steampunk, not like. Yeah, like circusy steampunk. Yeah, not Final Fantasy VI steampunk. I don't like circuses. Yeah, circus punk, actually. Little Nemo invented circus punk. Clowncore? Clowncore, yeah. The Insane Clown Posse. They got that idea from Little Nemo.

25:39 Especially the Nightmare Land stuff, which speaking of, there is a Nightmare Land level in this game. And, you know, depending on how you look at it, it's either an incredibly challenging level or finally you're free from the keys. You just have to get through the levels now. You don't have to collect all these keys and get behind locks and everything. And you have the Royal Scepter with you now, which, Sean, unfortunately you don't know about, but the Royal Scepter requires a very specific spell to be read aloud in order for it to do any damage or cast any kind of magic. And that spell is pajama, shazama, shazama, pajama, pajama, pajama, kajama, shazama, pajama.

26:27 Yeah, no, you got it. That's cool. And I'm pretty sure I killed somebody somewhere in the world by saying that out loud. So, Joe, do you know what I'm talking about? Like, that is a really funny moment, you know, a whimsical moment in the game, in the movie that's kind of like lost in translation on the game here.

26:48 I was pretending that I was the guy you killed with that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll read. Yeah. I was like, I can't let this go too long because of how frequently. Yeah, no, we thought you disconnected. We actually record these episodes.

27:05 But, yeah, I liked that part of the movie. You know, I will be honest, I don't remember him learning that spell because, again, I was kind of like working. Wow, plot holes. But I remember, like, yeah, Icarus holding up the spell and him trying. Because, like, for a while, I was like, why is this kid saying, like, why is this spell pajama? He's just saying pajama over and over again because he couldn't remember the rest of the spell.

27:26 But I must have missed the scene where he learned the spell. Well, you missed at least where he acquires the paper for the spell. But, like, that's the whole thing, right? It's like a dream thing where, like, he missed it too, right? Like, he cannot remember the rest of it. And that's kind of scary. It's like when you're not able to, like, close the door in time, you know, like in a nightmare. Like someone's about to break into your house.

27:48 Yeah, which they allude to that, to that exact, like, type of dream where, like, he's being chased. You can't use your phone. You can't turn the lights on. It's not exactly that, but he's being chased and he's like, mom, help, mom, help. And she's, like, standing there but she can't hear him.

28:01 And I feel like that's just a dream that, like, every kid had. Joe, that part, it actually is one of those, like, wasn't scary to me as a kid, was now scary to me. I clocked it as, like, a scary moment. The mom is just not moving. Like, she's moving. She's washing the dishes. But she's, like, her panicked son and she's just not answering him. It's like, we don't even see her face. We don't know if her face looks, like, really screwed up or something. Like, I was convinced we were going to get, like, a turnaround jump spear. Sean, can you stop interrupting our movie talk?

28:31 It's a good question that has to do with the game story. What was the question? What's the worst nightmare that you remember from your childhood? Hmm. Well, the listeners don't particularly know. I don't think it's worth sharing aloud.

28:49 I can't remember many of my nightmares. There's no way for me to describe in podcast form just how truly terrifying a nightmare was for me. Just saying. No, that I would have it for, like, seven to eight years straight. You know, like, that is a very... You're really talking it up and now our listeners really want to know.

29:09 Well, all you need to know realistically is that it's a dream where, very similar to the can't close the door or whatever, it's dark outside. And I'm, like, in my bedroom or, you know, usually, like, just some room in the house.

29:24 And I look out the window and there is a yellow car parked in front of our house that, like, clearly nobody ever parks in our house. Like, we lived in, you know, the suburbs. It was literally, like, nobody parked in front of our house. So, like, why is this car parked in front of our house? And then a person would get out of that car and start walking towards the house. And I'd be trying to lock the door. I'd be trying to warn my parents. And I just couldn't do it. And it was, like, a reoccurring dream for the longest time that, like, basically I...

30:00 Like, different variations of being unable to lock or being able to lock the front door. But now the back door is unlocked or, like, you know, just basically, like, playing around with, like, what's open and what's closed. But also, like, you'd go downstairs and in the laundry room, like, he would be waiting in there, you know? It was, like, you couldn't escape. Who would be waiting there?

30:24 This man. Whoever got out of the car. Oh, it's not what I think it is then. Okay. Wow. It's a man in a suit. I know that the man is in, like, he's in, like, a mascot suit. So that makes it scarier. A mascot suit? Yes, he is. Like, what's the mascot? What is the mascot now? He is a bear in pajamas.

30:46 And that's terrifying if you're a child. That is terrifying, but it's a totally different vibe than I was picturing. Yes, well, Joe, to be fair, though, the dream eventually did upgrade as I got older to, like, you would be able to, like, I'd be able to, like, grab his head and take off the mascot thing. And then you would see, like, the man wearing the suit. And he just didn't care. Like, I thought that was a big thing. Like, I took his head off. And he just didn't care. What do you look like under the suit?

31:14 Uh, he had a bald head. So I hate bald people. Wow. I'm glad. I'm glad we can get through this on the Little Nemo episode. Yeah, I'm glad that. I think it's very pertinent. I'm glad that we wasted 10 minutes or more on that because. Wasted? Well, you know, because, like, we got a game to talk about. We've been talking about the game.

31:36 Sure. We've been talking about the movie. Yeah. You guys have been talking about the movie. I don't know what you're talking about, Sean. There's a game? I'm talking about Nightmare Land.

31:47 The problem when talking about the game really is that it is just, you know, a side-scrolling platformer, find all the keys. It's hard to talk about, like, oh, and they put this key. They put this key in a spot, and, like, we, you know, we pinpoint that area. Like, we're not doing that kind of coverage in this. So there's not too many, like, unique elements once you get over, like, the individual parts that make up the level.

32:11 And I feel like we got through that in, like, less than 15 minutes. But this game does deserve to be talked about a little more because I think, you know, last week we had Kickle Cubicle, which looked great. This game looks great, too. This game has a great soundtrack, I think. And on top of all that, it's well known for its difficulty and everything. But I don't think it's, like, I think it's, like, challengingly difficult. I don't think it's, like, impossibly difficult.

32:41 I didn't particularly like enemy placement. I think there was a lot of stuff. I think it also has this thing, and it's not entirely true when you're Little Nemo because you're, like, normal platformer protagonist-sized when you're Little Nemo. But when you are an animal, you are massive on that screen. And it just... And these enemies are usually massive.

33:07 So there's just so many opportunities to just get in places where you cannot avoid getting hit. And I think that's where a lot of my frustration was when we were talking about hardness and difficulty. Like, I think that's where I was getting it. I think if, like, maybe everything was sort of the standard, you know, platform protagonist size would be a little less that. But maybe that's the point, too. Like, if you're an animal, you've got maneuverability perks, and it's just trying to balance that out. But yeah, it was frustrating.

33:46 Yeah, I mean, I won't pretend that I didn't have times where I was frustrated or that I, you know, even that I was any good at getting around these enemies. But I just... Not to beat a dead horse, but just these enemies did not bother me even close to as much as, like, almost, like, the majority of this kind of game that we play on this platform. So, like, I kind of just felt the opposite of you guys. I think, like, I was like, oh, this feels better enemy placement than normal. You know what I hated the most, though? But, like, as you're describing it, I see what you're saying. I just... It just... I wasn't feeling it in that moment. The dandelion seeds. I know... I know how to... To avoid them. But I just never could.

34:28 That's the little, like, skull-looking... Oh, yeah, yeah. They got the little face on them. Yeah. And they come down in, like, a zigzag, right? Yeah, I mean, you just wait until they come straight down and get out of the way. Yeah, well, I know that. But it still hurt.

34:40 But I... I want to backtrack real quick to the music. Because I did think this music was beautiful. But I've got to ask... Was this... Stage 1. Was the music in Stage 1 used in something else? Because I fully, 100% know that song. And I don't know why. I don't... It's not from the movie, right?

35:03 No, I don't... I didn't clock it from the movie. I didn't clock any of the songs in the game from the movie. But I don't remember, like, Stage 1's music off the top of my head, Joe. But it could just be that it was, like, something that... You know, I don't think it was ripped off, necessarily. But it could just be something that, you know, you heard on a compilation, you know? Yeah, it must be, like, the background music that someone uses in, like, a podcast or something. Right, right. It's like that...

35:38 Is that the ESPN song? Yeah. And then I'll backtrack, but go forward from where Joe was. And I'll go to the second stage, or third stage, maybe, of this game with the train level.

35:57 And I'll just say, like, you know, I think that's also a very tough level in terms of difficulty. Like, you don't have an animal. You have these toy planes that are constantly, like, flying into you. You can only stun them, but there's enough of them that, like... Sure, you might stun one of them, but then the other ones are coming in your path. Like, it's not impossible. Again, I just... Again, you know, you're talking to somebody who just recently beat Castlevania Rondo of Blood. Like, I can play difficult games, okay? I can play very difficult games, for that matter.

36:30 I'm not saying that this game is Ghosts and Goblins. I don't think it should ever be, compared on that level. Well, I'm saying that this is a surprisingly difficult game for a children's audience, just like the film was surprisingly scary for a children's audience. Like, again, it's just like, they certainly didn't want this IP to be too successful, because they stopped it with kids in every way you could imagine. What year did the movie come out? The same years around... 89? No, the movie didn't come out in 99.

37:02 89. Oh, 89, yeah, I think that's true, yes. Okay. So, like, a year later. I was gonna say, maybe this is one of those games, it's like, it's for people that saw it, like, five to six years ago, and they have better hand-eye coordination now, but no, this is for the kids that saw the movie. All right. Yeah.

37:21 But, yeah, I mean, I guess, again, I'm beating a dead horse, but, like, to be clear, like, I do think this game is hard. I just don't think it's that unfair NES hard, or, like, where it's, like, the design of the game... is, like, makes it unfairly hard. Rather than the design of the game makes it hard intentionally, is what it felt. I don't doubt the intentionality. I just think that in terms of side-scrolling platformers, you are particularly powerless in this. Yeah. I have two thoughts about difficulty that will work into Lil' Nemo, sure, but just about gaming in general.

37:58 And that is, first off, modern AAA games have ruined all perception of difficulty and sense of accomplishment for me personally, because I'm starting to realize that, like, it's not an accomplishment to beat any of these games that are released nowadays, because they're designed to be played through completely, and everybody wants you to see the ending.

38:18 Like, nobody... I don't think anyone gave a shit on the NES if you ever saw any part of Mega Man other than what, you know, like, other than, like, what you saw on the box, right? Like, they weren't trying to be like, you know, oh, we gotta give these people a complete experience. Like, no, you just... You got what you got, and you didn't have the internet to find out about all this shit like we do on the podcast, so you would just be, like, amazed to learn

38:40 from, like, seeing a friend do it or hearing about it at the playground. It's the same thing, you know, with most games up until, basically, video games started becoming movies, where now all of a sudden it's like, you know,

38:55 should I be excited if I beat God of War? Like, not really, right? Like, they plan for everybody to beat that game, and they make it so that anybody can beat that game. I'm not saying, like, a four-year-old kid could beat that game, but, like, video games are a lot less challenging today than they were, and I know that that's not a hot take. I'm just saying that part to get to the next part about Lil' Nemo, which is, because we're so good at video games nowadays, right? We feel like, wow, I'm doing such amazing stuff. I'm hitting so many more buttons and everything. I think people tend to play these games too fast,

39:30 and I think you need to, like, sometimes step back a little bit when there aren't forced timers on you, and just take these games, like, a little slower than you might otherwise, and I think, Joe, to your point about, like, these enemies not being brutally difficult,

39:44 like, if you just approach them slower, and you don't try to, like, run through these levels and just, like, oh, I saw a key, so I'm gonna go grab that key, and now I'm found another key, and then, okay, I'm gonna go to the end of the stage, and up, turns out I only grabbed three keys, and there's seven of them. Now I gotta go back and grab four. It's like, you just slow down a little bit. These games do become a little more digestible and a little easier as a result, and I think we need to encourage that a little bit. You're encouraging patience?

40:12 Yes. I don't know if I can... But, like, literal patience, not the, not, like, being funny and being like, hey, have you tried taking a break? I'm talking about, like, literally just waiting, like, the enemies can't jump over. This is more a situation that we find ourselves in, not so much our listeners, because we do have a time limit. Yeah, that's true.

40:39 So, I'll try and take your advice, but I do need to see a lot of the game and be able to talk about it, you know? That means I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take risks, take chances, live fast, die young. Otherwise, you wind up talking about a bear in pajamas for 10 minutes. No, no, no, that was, that was useful, and people will say that they like that. Okay, I hope they will say that they like that. You know, and here's hoping. Somebody back me up. You know, if you just stop interrupting Everybody in the Discord who liked it, just say, I like that. I like that. I like that.

41:27 I like that.

41:32 One thing I want to talk quick about that is related to the Nemoverse. Can we call it that? The Nemoverse? You can call it where you want. Great, thank you. Yeah, because it is my decision, ultimately. The arcade version of Little Nemo did exist. It was a thing. It was released basically around the same time as the game. Only known as Nemo. Not Little Nemo. Not Adventures in Slumberland. Of whether this is about 20,000 leagues under the sea or not.

42:03 Well, it's really confusing because they even go to a point in the movie to call him Little Nemo. So Nemo could literally just be anyone, right? This could be like... Maybe he grew up. Yeah, this could be like a cutoff though. And it could be like, oh, are they talking about Leonard Nimoy? Maybe the rest of the screen was dusty and you just have to... Yeah, or there was a character limit of four. Yeah, yeah. It was a Leonard Nimoy game. And then you find out, no, it's a Little Nemo game. Same initials, but... And there are no keys. There are no animal transformations. But there is two-player co-op where the second player gets to play as Flip.

42:42 As the flying squirrel you guys are talking about? No, that's not Flip. Flip's Mickey Rooney. Yeah, Flip is Mickey Rooney who's also like... How would you put... Is he a turtle? He's like a dishonest man. Ah. Yeah. With a cigar. And like... Yeah. Is he wearing like a mask or something over his eyes? Yeah, why is he green in the face? I don't know. But he's... But he has a... Yeah, he has like a...

43:12 A regular... Body... Like for a human and everything. But then he just has a green... Like half of his face, right? Because his mouth is white. This does sound nightmarish. He's almost frog-like.

43:23 It's pretty freaking scary. But Flip is great. And so I'm glad you could play two-player co-op with Flip. But that led me to another thought about Flip when I was trying to think about how to describe him. You know, you could also describe him as like the thief. And I was thinking about how in the second half of this movie, Joe, when they finally get to Nightmare Land to go save the king, you have a party of four.

43:50 Little Nemo Adventures in Slumberland could have easily have been an RPG where you have the wizard, the scientist, who could have been like the mage or whatever. Yeah, the rogue. I think it would have been great as an RPG. I think I want a modern like Ni No Kuni style little Nemo game. Oh, and you control... Yeah, like you control the animals that you run into in the dream world. What makes this Ni No Kuni? And then they transform into the nightmare world. What is Ni No Kuni? You don't know Ni No Kuni? I don't know Ni No Kuni. It was like a JRPG, but it was in like a Studio Ghibli style. And it was basically Pokemon, but yeah, in a different... The one with the guns?

44:34 No, that's Pal World. Yes. I'm just fucking with you. Oh, okay. So you do know Ni No Kuni? I don't know Ni No Kuni, but I knew that that was Pal World. Continue. What a roller coaster.

44:48 Slumberland is a 2022 movie directed by Francis Lawrence. I didn't look up who that is, so that doesn't ring a bell to me. I don't know if it rings a bell to you guys, but it came out on Netflix. Oh, so it's probably terrible. Yeah, generally mixed reviews. Makes sense. But they're still tapping into this IP, so maybe we could get that little Nemo JRPG. I'd love it. And maybe we can get to the end of this episode if we do the Essential Games list.

45:23 So am I gonna let my biases affect my vote here? No. I'm not going to let them affect my vote. I'm going to say that I enjoyed my little time with Little Nemo the Dream Master.

45:38 But I don't think I'm gonna put this one on the Essential Games list. If only because I did feel rather limited in what the gameplay loop was. I didn't enjoy particularly collecting the keys in the stage. It wasn't enjoyable to backtrack. It would have been interesting if they could have found a way to just make it so that the keys that you collect in the stage aren't just used at the end of the stage, but rather to, in like Legend of Zelda style, like use those keys to unlock other areas to then get like the next key. But the order that you go, like any key could have opened any door. So technically you could just continue to go in your own way, but you ultimately have to explore the entire area the first time through rather than the backtracking.

46:27 The animals are a fun part of the game. And I think it's pretty neat that there's so many of them. I mean, I'm not quite even sure. Like that's pretty cool for like in terms of a power-up system, like just having this many unique ways to explore the platforming levels. But they're also like kind of limited in their like usefulness. Like it's very clear which ones you should be using. And I don't think there was really a moment to be like in future Kirby games, there are animals as well that like Kirby can hop on like a hamster, an owl.

47:07 These are great. A frog. These are great things for Kirby, but they're also like, oh, and I want to stick with this guy for the next level, right? Because technically like you could use the owl in any level. You don't get that same ability here with these animals. They are like short little bursts. And I think it would have been more interesting to like have a system where you kind of could be any of the animals, but it's more about what strengths and weaknesses you want to impose on yourself. So I'm not going to put it on the essential games list, but I do think it's a pretty darn good game. And like I said, while it may be challenging, I don't view it as impossible.

47:45 Joe. Another week here where I kind of went through a little bit of a roller coaster. I know we did the same thing last week. But yeah, I started out lukewarm on this game.

47:55 But as I played it more, I'll say that one of my favorite things about Super Mario Brothers 3 is getting the Tanooki suit or getting the frog suit or, you know, and seeing what these new powers do. And that only happens like twice, you know, because those are rare suits. You get there's only a couple of them. This is like getting the Tanooki suit the game where there's all these different suits or animal power ups. And I really did enjoy like that twist on the platformer where it's like, hey, if you want to be able to climb up this thing, you need this animal. And like, hey, what does this animal do?

48:34 It lets you dig below the ground. And this one lets you hover for, you know, a few paces. And I like that part of it a lot. I also just found this game very clean and charming. I mean, I think that like what was holding me back from voting in on the essential games list was like, is there enough going on? But, you know, like, does it change enough? But the more I think about it, the more I don't think it has to change enough because it's the change and the refresh of it all comes from finding these new animal things and dealing with new enemies using these different animals in different ways. I don't know. I just think it's a really cool gameplay loop. I really like the music.

49:17 I think I'm going to vote it on the essential games list. Sean. All right. So as the one here that has not seen the movie or read the 19, the turn of the century comic strip.

49:35 I was super into the animal transformation slash mounting concept in this game. I thought it was really interesting. And now while recording this episode, I'm learning that that's not even like a little Nemo thing. Like that's not even a part of it. It's not a thing he does. It's not a thing that he does. So now I'm just confused and and and that's kind of like. I'm just confused about what this game is supposed to be doing.

50:12 Now, that being said, like all the complaints that I have are valid like that. Not not sorry. They're not valid. They still hold water in my eyes in terms of just the idea that a lot of these things I really enjoy. On paper. And I thought were cool as I was discovering them. And then just kind of got annoyed with as the game went on. Like sort of how Joe was saying he started off lukewarm. I kind of stayed lukewarm. I'm not going to say that this game is not pretty and is does not have variety. But I think that a lot of the concepts are a little half baked. I think that a lot of the animals should have had like some other things to them. Aside from just like movement speed and jump height.

51:13 I can't put it on the essential games list in terms of just my opinion of the game. But I do think that there is a lot of value in playing the game. It is cool. I just don't think it's essential. Fair enough. I also I did mean to say that I do not think this is an essential adaptation of Little Nemo. Because I don't know where it has to stuff. Yeah no that wasn't a part of it. But the game itself. That wasn't the basis. But it was still confusing.

51:42 I personally would just like to see more from Little Nemo. And how I don't know. Because I don't think the movie needs a sequel. Or a remake. And I don't know. Maybe I just want that JRPG game and that's it. Maybe that's enough for me. Maybe I want a game where you finally see his pet flying squirrel. Maybe I want a game where you have to have.

52:07 You have to use the GameCube microphone to say the pajama pajama spell. In order to take care of the Nightmare King. Like who knows. And I don't know why I chose the GameCube microphone. I want a game where we get the team up we've all been waiting for. Of Icarus the flying squirrel teams up with Doc Brown of Back to the Future fame. And they just go to town on a great game. Icarus and Doc Brown really are the new Avengers.

52:58 Icarus and Doc Brown. Thank you.