221 · Prisoners of War

• EXPLOSIVE ARCADE ACTION
• NES Longplay
• Introductions
  • SNK back at it again with another Arcade port. AKA their bread and butter.
  • We’ve had a bunch of games where you rescue POWs, now you play as one!
• Overview
  • POW is a beat em up that takes place during the Cold War where players control POWs who break free from their cell to relentlessly fight their way into the main base of their adversaries in order to eliminate their leader and escape for their lives.
    • Sounds pretty intense, so how IS the game from an intensity point of view? You’re alone in enemy ground, is it relentless?
• Gameplay
  • On NES beat em ups it’s often hard to line up attacks with enemies on the same plane, but I didn’t have that problem.
  • The creativeness of the enemies, but a lack of behavioral changes
    • Frogmen in stage 2 was a memorable moment
    • Rooms and power ups
    • PUNCH - KICK - JUMPKICK
  • Progression - Sure it gets tougher, but does it feel like a movie experience where the stakes or action is increasing as well?
  • Boss fights
  • Only single player
    • Arcade also had 3 special attacks performed by pressing two buttons simultaneously: a jump kick (jump, and then kick), a back punch (jump and punch simultaneously), and a headbutt (punch and kick simultaneously).m
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • SNK 40th Anniversary Collection
  • THere are plenty of other SNK Beat Em Ups to try if you like this one.
• EGL
• NEStalgia Byte - Dig Dug

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Prisoners of War, Explosive Arcade Action.

00:19 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Guys, SNK back at it again with another arcade port, aka their bread and butter. But we haven't seen them in a minute. The last game they released was Baseball Stars. I'll remind you, an essential game. Yeah. You know, I actually kind of needed you to, I was going to ask you to tell me which one it was, but it's just because I don't really associate SNK with sports games. So this seems more on brand. Yeah, I totally forgot that we had an essential sports game.

01:04 Yeah, we have three now, if you're counting, you know, between Baseball Stars, Tecmo Bowl, and if you count, Mike Tyson's Punch-Out as a sports game. Okay. Yeah, well, it's Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, I remembered. I actually also forgot Tecmo Bowl was essential.

01:18 Maybe you have an agenda. I tune those episodes out. Yeah. SNK also so far on the NES has released Alpha Mission. I dare you to tell me one thing about that game. It was about guns and shooting, likely, and there was definitely a hero. Okay, good call. Wasn't that the one that was also known as ASO, Armored Scrum Object in Japan, is a vertically scrolling shooter developed by ASO for arcades in 1985?

01:50 You're so right, and yeah, that's correct. It was a shmup. So, Sean, you could have just taken the easy guess and just guessed shmup. Sure. And that would have been enough for me, but I appreciate the extra effort, because you could argue that every ship in a shmup is the hero. Yeah, in somebody's life.

02:08 Right. And then they also released, what do we have here, Iron Tank, The Invasion of Normandy. That was a cool game where you played in the tank. Oh, yeah. That was cool. Kind of like the tank controls. Yeah. Fun stuff. Lee Trevino's Fighting Golf. Oh, yeah. Classic. Classic Lee Trevino. And then, just because I'm listing them all off, the only one that remains, Guerrilla War, which is, in a lot of ways, kind of similar to POW. Yeah. It's modern warfare, too.

02:41 There you go. Yeah. I mean, that was more of a run-and-gun, and this is a beat-em-up. But, you know, the same style. If you remember that one, Sean, that was the one that had, like, you play as Fidel Castro in the non-NES version. Oh, yeah. I forgot. Yeah. We did make a big deal of all of the political commentary that was just removed because Nintendo had foresight. And the biggest thing just being that SNK, all of these games are arcade games as well.

03:13 So, it's just, they're not making original games for the NES. They are just bringing over whatever's selling well in the arcades, which is, honestly, probably the best strategy by a developer we've seen so far. Right? If it's putting quarters in it, it's probably worth making a home console version of it, too. You don't even have to really advertise as much. Everybody already knows what the game is, and they probably think it's just as good as in the arcades before they buy it. So, you know, you already got a consumer base. You cannot go wrong.

03:44 We've had a bunch of games where you rescue POWs. Now you finally play as one. Yeah, where are the rescuers? No. Why don't we get to just sit here now while another player rescues us? We're not some kind of, like, regular old POW. That's true. We save ourselves because they didn't check for explosives, if you remember. I don't remember from the beginning of the game. I do remember from the beginning of the game.

04:13 It does have some cute cut scenes here and there, but just to jump right into the game, why not? I think we've done enough SNK backstory. POW, Prisoners of War. I don't know if you have to say both. I feel like you could just say one or the other. I'll probably just say POW from this point onwards. It's a beat-em-up game that takes place during the Cold War.

04:30 Players control the POW who has broken free from their cell to fight their way through the main base and eliminate the person who, or I guess, like, the person who's in charge of the whole war, right? It's one thing to be like, this guy is, you know, the one who locked me up, but it sounds like you're, like, now going to escape jail and then take down an entire country. That is probably the funniest phrase. Like, I'm here to take down the person responsible for the entire war.

04:59 Like, who's the manager of this war? I'm going to take him down. I would like to speak to the manager of this. He really is the Karen. Yeah, that's true. I was going to say, I think that it makes you wonder if maybe him becoming a prisoner of war was part of his plan. Like, that was, like, just to get him on the inside, and then he breaks down. Oh, it was. Yeah. Is that canon? That's canon. If you let the start screen just linger for a bit, you get a PowerPoint presentation,

05:31 like an overhead projector has, like, some text, and there's, like, a guy that's describing, like, you're going to be a POW. You're going to do this. Well, there you go. I played this game. Yeah. That's great. It's some movie trailer stuff, though. It is cool. Like, you know, just one problem. He wanted to be caught. I love that he does have, like, I'm looking at it now. I love that he does have, like, the, uh, like, the elementary school overhead projector. Exactly. You can see it there.

06:14 So the plot of the game sounds pretty intense to me. How is the game from an intensity point of view? Like, you're alone in enemy ground. Is this a relentless onslaught of, like, you taking down enemies? And, uh, you know, we've seen a lot of other beat-em-ups try to simulate that arcade feeling. So what did you guys just feel about, I said intensity, but really just, like, the combat experience of the game? Well, I think it's funny that you, that you start, you led with intensity, because intensity was sort of, like, the buzzword I had the whole time for, like, things I wanted to talk about, about this game.

06:50 In the sense that, like, yeah, there's always enemies coming at you and whatnot. Like, you know, there's always an onslaught. But something about it feels a little more, like,

07:00 a little less reaction-based than a lot of other, like, beat-em-ups I've played. Like, I'm thinking specifically of, like, um, not the Turtles game we played, the other one on the NES I used to play as a kid. Um, not, not Turtles in Time. Double Dragon? No, no, another Turtles game. Um. Oh, oh, uh. Not Turtles in Time, the second. Oh, Turtles in Time. Not Turtles in Time, not the Super Nintendo, whatever. Turtles in Time as well. I'm thinking of those types of games where they feel, they feel, like, very action-y, feels very, like, um, fast-paced and, like, reaction-based. Where this, I don't know, it moves a little slower, and literally in the way it controls to me. Not necessarily, like, a horrible thing, but just, it didn't feel like

07:41 relentless action-packed-ness. That's interesting that, that's the way you describe it, because, um, I would say that, um, compared to the last beat-em-up that we played, this feels more classically beat-em-up. And, you know me, you know I have a very short memory, and I can't remember the games that we played, but I forgot the name of the last beat-em-up that we played. Um, but, like, this one actually has, like, the sort of cadence and rhythm that I sort of associate with the beat-em-up genre, and felt more like Turtles in Time than a lot of the beat-em-ups that we played so far. The last beat-em-up we played was Bad Street Brawler. And there it is, yes.

08:26 And that was, I would agree that this is a step-up, both in, both in the combat and in the intensity, like, the amount of enemies that they give you. I think my complaint is more of just, like, a, a graphical one that I felt like everything could have just been zoomed in more. There's a lot of empty space on the screen, and most of the action just has, you know, because it's melee combat, you don't need, like, a lot of space between enemies. So there's a lot of, like, walking

08:53 to the enemy, and, you know, it's not like, they could throw the knife at you, but then they don't have a knife, and some have guns, but for the most part, there's very little to fill that space, and so I would have just brought everything in a little closer, but in terms of, you know, the, the waves of enemies and stuff like that, it's all, it's all, like, appropriately spaced. I never felt like I was just like, all right, more of this, more of that, you know, they shake it up every now and then. Yeah, I, I sort of agree and sort of disagree. I mean, here's where, where I think that, the reason I think we have maybe different descriptions at least Sean and I,

09:27 is because I, I think that, yes, I am, like, comparing this to just my general knowledge of, of beat-em-ups I've played rather than, rather than looking back at most recent beat-em-ups we've played here, in which case, yes, I totally agree that this is closer to Turtles in Time than Bad Street Brawler was or, or some of these other beat-em-ups, but I still wouldn't, I'm not saying that this is what you were saying, but I still wouldn't consider this close to Turtles in Time

09:55 at all, just because I, I, I did feel like, maybe, maybe we did have a different perspective on it, but I did feel like this game just, it feels like, like a little more like, okay, I see this enemy, I know he's about to do this attack because of his pattern, so I'm going to move out of the way, and then I see this guy, and I'm, but it's like, I'm thinking about all that stuff, I'm, it's, I'm not just reacting, it's like a little more cerebral because it felt like it moves a little slower, or like, later in the game, I, I didn't finish it, but I got pretty far, I got to, I think the, pretty close to the last level, I didn't quite get to it, but, um, later in the game, it's like, three enemies come on screen,

10:31 and I have to kick them all, to like, stop them from moving, as soon as I start kicking them, they don't move, and I just got to kick them all 40 times, and then they'll die, and I was just like, this doesn't feel like I'm like, I'm like jumping around, trying to react, and like, play a beat-em-up, it sounds really negative, but, I think what, what you're describing more is just, like a, uh, like the difference between,

10:55 Tecmo Bowl, feels more like Madden, to me, than NFL did, and, Tecmo Bowl, and Madden, have really nothing in common, but, in terms of like, the, uh, like the flow of the game, it, it felt closer to it, and I guess I'm not saying that, this is, this is Turtles in Time, but it, but it shares a lot more of the, the tropes, that I associate with the genre, and it's really just more execution, that separates them, and, and I do agree, with you on like, the whole like, sort of, uh, fist sponginess, of the enemies, but I think that's more like a,

11:32 uh, that isn't, quite the same kind of difference, that I would describe. I, I think then, in that case, I think we're on the same page, I think we're, yeah, we're just like looking at it, we're, we're each comparing it to different things, and then looking at it from that perspective. You know, beat em ups have this progression, of locking the screen, once you hit a certain point, until you take out the enemies, and in Bad Street Brawler, I saw that as like a real problem, as, as like the, the flow of that game. Here, I would agree that, it takes in, unnecessary amount of hits,

12:02 uh, depending on, you know, if you're just punching the enemies, it does take a while, to knock them out successfully, but, for the most part, they don't fill the screen, with like an unnecessary amount of enemies, and they find a creative ways, to change up the enemies, between, between levels too, so I feel like there is, from a flow standpoint, it feels more like, the arcade style game, where, you're moving, but you know, you're moving progressively,

12:29 and things are getting harder, the stakes are getting bigger, rather than just, and here's three more green guys, and then here's three pink guys, and then here's three blue guys, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like, it's like when we talk about platformers, like, are they just throwing enemies anywhere, or do they think about, who should come where, and what's good game design? The one thing that I would say, about the whole start and stop,

12:51 of it, and the distribution, of enemies, is, this is sort of a nitpick, but it just felt, very awkward, like, how often, and, because when I think, to like the classic beat em up games, like, there are very obvious, like arenas, like you're going to, like the screen's gonna stop, and you're going to fight, in this, in this alleyway, and, like, there's sort of like, an internal consistency, as to like, what this alleyway fight, is going to look like, and then, you're gonna clear the stage, the mini, like the, the stage part, and you're gonna move forward, and then you can kind of guess, that like, oh, something's gonna happen around here, whereas, in this one,

13:35 yeah, in, in POW, you're going to clear the area, and then you're gonna move, like, five feet, and then, it's going to stop again, because I just decided to throw, an extra guy your way, I don't know if you guys, felt the same way, that it just felt a little, inconsistent, yeah, it even felt inconsistent, in the regards that sometimes, the screen, like you would see enemies, but the screen wouldn't lock off, you could continue, to skip them, yeah, it's very strange, decision making,

14:04 uh, I don't know if it's just like, like the, uh, there's like a limit, like once it hits three enemies, on the screen, then it will lock, or if, like it's something like that, or if it was actually, authored that way, it just felt like, there wasn't a lot of, consistency there, yeah, I agree, it was a little, jarring sometimes, where it's like, oh, I just went a long time, without the screen locking, now it just locked five times in a row, and like, I didn't get anywhere,

14:31 and that does, it is a nitpick, but like, it also like, has a, a very strong, like, correlation with, the flow of the game, which like, in a beat em up, like the flow, is kind of everything, yeah, no, I hear you, and I think that, for me, what it was that, that bothered me, and I realize I'm being very negative, on the game, I don't think there's, I don't have, I have positive thoughts, about this game too, but just as we're talking about it, the one, the one thing that,

15:00 about that, screen locking, that threw me off a lot, was, first of all, in order to move the screen forward, you have to be pretty far, to the right, as it is, not giving you a lot of room, to see in front of you, and then when the screen locks, you know, you might end up, even further to the right, like right up on it, and as soon as the screen unlocks, now, that's the point, where the screen moves, and you have to kind of like, backtrack, in order to like, get to a point, where you can kind of see something, very, it sounds like, very much a nitpick, like it did get a little annoying, sometimes, it was like, I want to keep going,

15:31 but like, I got to kind of find the spot, that's like the right spot, I, and I know, we're getting into the weeds here, but I will agree, and say that I think what happens, is if you, if the screen unlocks, and you're already moving to the right, it will not unlock, and allow you to keep moving forward, until you like, release the button, and then press it again, that's sort of, what I gathered,

15:55 but we're, yeah, it's, this is a very specific thing, yeah, it's a very specific thing, that was noticeable a lot though, so I feel like if you play the game, you will notice it, yeah, I think it's all good to get into this, because we really are just talking about, the combat here, and all the various nuances, that might go into that, because I even wanted to bring up, you only have punch, kick, and jump kick, as your three attacks,

16:18 and yeah, you can pick up a knife, and you can pick up a machine gun, and occasionally, it lets you throw a grenade, but that's really like, that's it, and I feel like, going off of a game, such as Double Drag, and, you know, they found creative ways, to involve grappling, and other types of attacks, here, punch and kick, are also just like, less powerful, than jump kick, so it's another one of these games, we had this before, with a different brawler, maybe, maybe it was Bad Dudes,

16:44 where, jump kick is just, the default best option, if you can, you know, if you can land it, because it's the most powerful attack, so why would you, choose to like, stun an enemy for longer, with a punch, when you can, jump kick at them, yeah, because it also, creates space, to deal, because you're, you're more than likely, going to be dealing, with several enemies, at a time, and if you do the jump kick, you're, you're guaranteed, to knock them back, even when like, a punch or a kick, has a chance, to knock them back,

17:13 and this is, it's just an interesting, thing when, in this game, like there's this, like the, it's like the opposite, of power creep, where, at the beginning of the game, it feels very balanced, where you kind of, have an idea, that this amount of, attacks, is going to, down an opponent, and this amount, amount of, sorry, and then this amount, of attacks, is going to, eliminate an opponent, and then just, as you keep moving forward, that number just, keeps climbing, and, and gets to the point, like how Joe said, you've got to, kick or punch some guy, and stun lock them, for 40 hits, before, like you end it, unless you've got a gun,

17:57 and yeah, there is the power up, for the brass knuckles, to sort of, I guess cut that number in half, but as the game goes on, the, the combat, which at first, felt very, natural, now feels very grindy, yeah, and I mean, there are some, standout moments too, you know, just to get away from, the negative talk, for a minute, I do feel like, in stage two, when I first saw the frog men, I think they're described, in the manual, but they're the divers, who go underwater,

18:24 that was a really cool moment, where, you see them, they're not just like, visually popping up, from the water, first they enter the water, and then they're like, it's like, where'd they go, and then they slowly, come out of the water, it's not the most, fair thing, in the world, because they could show up, anywhere, but it was a cool moment, where all of a sudden, it's a very tense situation, between you, and three known divers,

18:46 I agree with that, and I think that that, excuse me, if you can't tell, I'm sick, so if this is your first episode, I don't normally sound like this, but, that kind of speaks to, I think this whole, overall, thing that they do right, which is, enemy variety, which like, we see enemy variety, done, on like a whole, spectrum of like, from, from well done, to poorly done, but I think sometimes, even when it's done well,

19:12 the different enemies, are like, not too different, to deal with, whereas, in this case, they're, I think, they put a lot of thought, into, how to make these enemies, like, you have to think about them, differently, like these frog men, that are gonna, it's like, they come down, okay, you know they're there, now you have to like, it's basically like, a reaction game, for a second, where you have to like, wait, see where they're gonna pop up, and like, try and react quickly, before they get the jump on you,

19:38 and, and you know, that's a cool, different way of thinking about it, there are these other enemies, that like, jump around, and you have to like, they take like, one hit to kill, but you have to like, kind of catch them, where they're gonna land, and like, that's the only instance, where that happens, but it just like, it's a little breakup, from just like, oh yeah, just punch this guy, over and over again, you know, even like, the enemies with the knives, you have to approach differently, than the enemies with the guns, and stuff like that, so it's like, I think they did, they did a, a good job, with kind of keeping you, on your toes, with that stuff, without making it like, feel ridiculous.

20:11 Yeah, I, I do like the enemy variety, that they have there, and, and the, like, you've got gun guys, you've got, uh, the frog men, which, I think that just, we're just gonna say divers, because I don't, the frog men's just a very strange word, um, the knife guys, the, the motorcycle guys, which you're better off just, like, avoiding, um, unless you have a knife to throw, and you want to get rid of, um, uh, the grenade dudes, like, yeah, there's a whole like,

20:39 five pointed triangle, of like, the, the enemies you have to deal with, and the skills that you have to use, to dispatch them accordingly, but I also think that their, their boss fights, are pretty well designed as well, I don't know if we want to move on to that already, let's move into that, yeah, so, the very first boss that you fight, um, I was, I was a pretty big fan of, because it's just a hel, it's a huge helicopter, you fight a helicopter, and, um, it's odd to fight a helicopter, as a mainly melee based, uh, hero, but, um, in, in this situation,

21:17 uh, there's several ways you can approach it, if you came prepared, and you're still holding a gun, um, then you can, kind of just like cheese it, and destroy it, while, uh, not really having to deal with anything else, um, but if you were, you know, not prepared, um, and this is your first run through, or whatever, uh, you will have to dispatch it another way, and, the, the thing about this fight, is that, it's also going to continue to spawn enemies, that have grenades, and it will continue to do that, forever, uh, I, I only mention that because, the first time I fought this thing, I thought that I just had to dispatch all the enemies, and, I didn't know that my main target was the helicopter, so I was fighting it forever,

22:03 um, but then when you figure it out, like, then you, you've got all these enemies dropping grenades, and you just, when you kill them, and now, you're using those grenades, to attack the helicopter, and I just really liked that whole, like, there's, there's several ways to go about it, and also, it's not just a punch until dead, or shoot until dead situation, it's actually sort of, built into, like, the, the world of the game. Yeah, I, I totally agree, I thought, I thought it was a really, um, it was a good, like, boss pattern, too, or, like, boss pattern combined with, like, the, the means that it gives you, to deal with the boss, that felt, you know, I feel like a lot of these, a lot of these older, like, NES games, the,

22:46 the boss battles feel, like, they've aged very poorly, because it is what you said, it is, like, okay, yeah, just shoot until it's dead, and don't get shot, it's gonna keep shooting at you, not all of them, but a lot of them do that, and this one, um, had a good pattern, that you kind of, it felt more Metal Gear, than, like, Metal Gear Solid, with, like, it's very, uh, unique bosses, uh, as opposed to, any number of games that we've played on this system, where, it's just, you're gonna keep doing what you've been doing,

23:18 there's a cool fight with, um, it's like a giant, I'm gonna describe, it seems like he's like a Russian wrestler, but he's also like one of those circus men, he just has like a huge stomach, Angel, no shirt on, is that, is that what it is? The, the, the big round guy, correct? Yes, yeah, that's Angel.

23:34 Okay, cool, he's got a name, great, um, I like that fight, because it's in an elevator, and it's, so it's very cramped corners, and he's obviously this, bigger, stronger, more intimidating dude than you, but you can't go anywhere, so you have to, do the combat, and like, yeah, the combat's not the best in this game, but it's just another way that they tried to do a different, kind of fight, in this game, where they didn't change any of the controls, between, levels, or fights, or anything like that.

24:01 Yeah, no, it, just like, yeah, putting, putting these bosses in different settings, like, different circumstances, so that you can't, you're not just, doing the same loop over and over, like, you're still adjusting to these new enemies, I, I appreciate that. And the manager, at the end of the game, the one who's responsible for the war, um, I don't know if he is single-handedly responsible for the war, but, I will say that, he has a weird attack pattern, where, he seems to be just like, another guy, who just happens to also be like, eight foot five, and, he does front flips and back flips as his movement, like, consistently, just non-stop.

24:41 I'm not sure, like, if that was the best thing to, like, showcase as the final fight, like, I'm sure it was tough to deal with that, but, he doesn't, like, back flip any further, it's kind of predictable how far he will flip, it feels like almost when you, um, when you deal with, like, a Mega Man, or, um, a Super Mario World, uh, mini boss, you know, where, like, you, like, you learn their pattern pretty fast, and then it's like, okay, cool, I know where they're gonna be,

25:06 it didn't feel that, like, climatic at the end after all these fights, I mean, you fight a tank at one point with your bare fists. Yeah, um, I actually did not make it to the end of this game because of, like, sort of the difficulty curve, um, but, uh, I, I have watched a video and it did look underwhelming.

25:25 It is funny, though, to see this guy who is just, like, looks way too, way too big to have any business being as acrobatic as he is, but he's, like, he's, like, jumping, like, a mile in the air doing backflips. It's, it's funny, though, too, because, like, in the manual, it describes the height and weight of every character in the game for some reason, and it is, like, he actually is eight foot five or something. It, like, it's not just, like, oh, we made this sprite too big or whatever, like, that's, that's to scale. That's classic. Uh, Sean, you mentioned that the game gets tougher,

25:58 you know, can you talk about that a little bit? What about it gets tougher? Is it that the enemies have significantly more HP? Yeah. Or the, yeah, okay, go for it. It's, it's almost 100% like an HP scaling thing, and they're not, like, their attack patterns aren't getting, like, more elaborate. They're not, they don't, like, maybe they do cause more damage as well, but, um, it's really just, everyone becomes a bullet sponge, and, I find that, sort of, to be a bit too artificial, to be like, oh, there's, like, a skill curve, it's, it's just, you have to have the endurance, and I guess, the, um,

26:37 like, combat awareness, to be able to deal with all these, like, much more, uh, enduring enemies, um, so your, your, your mode of play is probably gonna change, to more of like a, like, I guess, like a crowd control sort of thing, but, uh, where you're just gonna sort of hit and run, I don't know how you guys, uh, how you guys, like, changed your approach, as the game went forward, but, I, I don't know, I, I would have preferred the enemies to, to become just harder,

27:08 in, like, harder to deal with, just because they, they had more of a move set, and not just because they took more punches, or kicks to get rid of. Yeah, especially because, you know, like I said before, the way that I sort of dealt with it, it was kind of the opposite of, of hit and run, but it was definitely less,

27:27 fun, because I would like, I would try and find ways to get like, three enemies in one spot, and then your kick can kind of hit all three of them, and if, as long as you just keep kicking, you've locked them, they're, they're like, for the most part, I mean, once in a while they'll break out, but for the most part, they're stuck, while you kick them, for a really long time, like, it's, it's kind of boring, and then yeah, sometimes like another enemy will come in, and you have to like, think about that enemy, but like, that's not, that's not a fun loop.

27:55 Yeah, and I think the stun thing is a cool, gameplay aspect, because that, you know, it would suck if, you know, you punch, they punch, we've seen games like that, where it's just, you and the enemy, in a fist punching war, and whoever like, happens to have more HP, comes out the winner, it does help, but I would agree, that, not even just the, the stun locks, but the, when you hit them, and they go flying, that should be when they're done, you know, like, they're dead, and instead, maybe it was designed, for a crowd control kind of thing, but instead, it's just like,

28:27 I'm not having my eye on them any longer, but then sure enough, like, they get back up, and come right over to me again, and it's like, when does, when do I know, whether they're dead or not, because I'm also dealing with a bunch of other guys, on the screen. Yeah, and then the weird thing about it is, is that I feel like, usually when that happened, like, when, when they go flying, that first time, and they're still alive, they just take one more hit, after that. Oh. Like, it's not even like, that's like the halfway point,

28:53 unless you guys notice differently, but I notice it's like, after like 20 hits, they go flying, and then they get back up, and like, I'm like, oh, okay, round two, and it's just like, one more hit, and they go flying again, and are dead. Well, it's a stamina thing, right? It's like boxing, when you get knocked down the first time, and then you, you know, you get the 10 count, when you come back up, if you take like another hit, you're gonna go right back down. That's true, that's true.

29:22 We've been talking mostly about the combat, because that is what this game is, you know, at the end of the day, there isn't like puzzles, there's barely any pickups, there are rooms that you go into, to fight smaller batches of enemies, to acquire pickups, but for the most part, this is the game. I wanted to ask you guys, just from a setting,

29:41 and, you know, thematic storytelling point of view, what'd you think of the actual, like, stages, and the progression of the story? Did it feel movie-like, and that it was getting bigger, or, was it just the same, you know, the same scenery, over and over again? I mean, I think that the little, cut scenes that are played between, each level, were, were charming. It's very 80s, it's very, action movie. I wouldn't say that it's, all that, engaging, in terms of like, what's gonna happen next, like, obviously you're going to win.

30:19 But, I think there is some, there's some good, like, level variety, like, I mean, it's not entirely unique, there's a jungle level, a prison level, a, I guess, like a, industrial level, but there's enough, that it doesn't feel like, everything is the same, it's just, we've seen it all before, in some other context. There is something weird here, though, about beat-em-ups, for me personally, that, we spend so much time, talking about the combat, but in a game like, Ninja Gaiden, we would have talked about the combat, and then we would have talked about, so many other, aspects of the same game too,

30:58 and beat-em-ups are just like, one, very honed in, focused part, of what essentially, every NES platformer, can also offer you. So, for me, what made Double Dragon, stand out, was the, destructible environments, and being able to like, pick up objects, that you found, and stuff. Here, you know, other than like, picking up a knife, that they, had in their hands, that if you punch them, and they, they're lucky enough to drop it, you can pick up that knife. Otherwise, there's not like, there's not a lot of, interactability, or even, Well, there is one thing, like, go for it. So, one thing that I would say, that POW does, to remove itself, from just being a cookie cutter,

31:44 beat-em-up, is that, throughout each level, you're going to find, these little optional caves, or, shipping containers, or whatever, contextually they are, but these little nooks, that you can move off into, that at the, once you clear that space, you will get a power-up, and, you're obviously, sort of, trading off the risk, of losing HP, or even losing a life, by going into them, because you're fighting, an optional mob, um, for the reward, of either like, brass knuckles, or, an armor vest, or, whatever the third thing is, um, and, these all have, very, uh, useful, attributes to them, uh, and, I, I think that, that does, make it unique, in at least one way,

32:34 no, and that's true, because that wasn't in, the arcade version, yeah, and, and those things, like, I think it's really, uh, it's a well done, risk versus reward, because those, some of those rooms, are very difficult,

32:48 but those power-ups, are, are worth it, like, if you can, if you can come out, with the armor, like, that means any projectile, will just bounce off of you, for the rest of the level, or, or when you lose your life, like, that's really, that's really powerful, but it feels like a perfect, it's not like overpower, overpowered, because it's only projectile weapons, and it feels like a perfect balance, of like, it really does make me think, when I come across those, like, there's some tough enemies, in those sometimes, in those little nooks, um, so like, I have to kind of decide, on the fly, like, how worth it is, is this, um, you know, is this armor, and it's not always a no-brainer, which I think is, is a great thing, for, for a game like this.

33:45 on the arcade side, uh, if I did play the arcade game, because I heard good things about it, there are three special attacks, that can be performed, by pressing two of the buttons, simultaneously, so there's a jump kick, a back punch, and a head butt, so, there are three buttons, there's a kick button, a punch button, and a jump button, in this game, we don't get a, separate jump button, for the NES version, but you can still jump, nonetheless, with the jump kick,

34:14 my point being here is, do you think that it's, um, do you think that it matters at all, that, you know, we only had three options, in this game, but even the arcade version, kind of knew that that wasn't enough, well, you, you actually can, back punch in this game, and I didn't find out, until like, my last five minutes, of playing this game,

34:33 when I accidentally did it, but if you just hit the D-pad, in the direction that you want to, back punch, and the punch button, at like the, the perfect timing, he'll do like a backhand, yeah, uh, and I was able to, discover that, and use it, like on purpose, um, but it is a very niche, use, like there isn't, you're not always, going to need to use that, because you're probably, going to position yourself, in a way that has all of your enemies, on the same side, well, it also felt like,

35:02 it doesn't take, enough time, to turn around, that it, that it makes, a back punch worth it, like, like the whole game, I was just, someone comes up behind me, I just turn that way, and punch, and then like one time, and notice I can back punch, and I'm like, but does this save me time, even, I mean, it didn't even really seem like it, so it felt kind of arbitrary,

35:22 and then one last thing, about the game, that I feel like we should talk about, that I actually don't mind this, in these video games, is when the ending, can't spell congratulations correctly, we've seen it, so many times now, and I know it's like, it's a joke, and people usually like, laugh about it, and there's probably like a, someone should make a coffee table book, of all the mistranslations, of congratulations,

35:46 or some kind of you win, in video games, because there's winner is you, and stuff like that, I just feel like, it's not that big of a deal, right, in 2022, like you see congratulations, and you're like, whatever, like I, it doesn't even feel like, that big of a moment anyway, because the screen just, fades to black, from the final boss fight, and then you're randomly, with some chick that I guess, hopefully you're back in, you know, the US, and you're with your lady, or whatever, and now there's, the, you know, it's just like, I don't know, I didn't really care, about the ending. It's done. Yes. Yeah, I mean, we've all, we laughed about it, throughout all of the aughts, and now it's 2022, and like, it's just not the joke anymore,

36:25 so, yeah, it's fine, it's funny, it's like a chuckle moment, but it, I don't think we're, we're gonna make a whole video, about it, like video game, or whatever. I feel like Mike, you brought that up, to be like, all right everybody, grow up.

36:41 I think, you know, congratulation, could, that could be, congratulation, like you've graduated, from the game. Wow, maybe that's what they were trying to do, and they spelled that wrong. Yeah, portmanteau. Yeah, exactly, and I do plenty of those, while we record these episodes, so I'm saying, don't make fun of people, for the way they say, or spell things.

37:03 I'm still gonna do it. Please do. On the sequels, and spinoff side here, I just wanted to talk about, the SNK 40th Anniversary Collection, something that we've mentioned, a few times now, if you don't get the hint, it's a really nice collection, on I think Switch, PS4, very well detailed, made by a lot of the people, who actually work at the,

37:29 like video game, preservation museum, and all that. Yeah, so, a lot of love was put into that, but this game is playable there, both the NES version, and the arcade version, so you can do like we did, and switch between them, and see the differences, but there are no, actual like sequels, or spinoffs, to Prisoners of War, which at first, I thought was strange, but SNK doesn't really, even have that many, beat em ups, so if you were into this, game, the only other options, really there for you, are games like, Burning Fight, Mutation Nation, Sengoku, and Street Smart, are like the top,

38:06 SNK beat em ups. I haven't heard of any of those. Yeah, I haven't heard of any of them either, but apparently Burning Fight, is a really, good, Neo Geo, beat em up, that SNK made. Okay. So, that's my, that's my like sequels, and spinoff section for you guys, usually it's a lot more, detailed, and this game kind of feels like, because we've had so many games, that either, you're rescuing, prisoners of war, or they're in a, war like setting, like this, I just, I feel like, a lot of these games, and tropes just kind of, blend in together, so if this kind of game, was for you, there's more than enough, even on this system, for you to continue to explore.

38:44 Anyway, we're done with, prisoners of war, would you say that that's true? I'd say that that's, well don't we usually, done with it? do something else? We usually do something else, yeah that's what I was gonna say, we're not quite done, there's something that we do, Sean, what do we do? We take a look at the game code, and see what we can like, take out of it, and learn from it. Oh right, I didn't talk about the memory mappers yet. Yeah, you didn't talk about the memory mappers. Right, right, yeah. Oh no, you know what though, that's not it either. Joe, what do we do, at the end of an episode? Let me, let me check my script real quick. What, no you had your shot.

39:25 All right, it's time for the essential games list, Sean, as always, you will go first. Yeah, sometimes, but that's, that's fine. I mean, yeah, we, there, I think we did a pretty good mix of good and bad for this game. Again, great boss design,

39:43 with like, even though, a lot about the, a lot about this game, is kind of, just, trope central. Like, we, we've seen, portions of this game, everywhere. It's not unique, in kind of, any way. But, when we put all the pieces together, this is, like, a pretty good game. Like, I, I would recommend this, for, um, for, for fans of beat-em-ups, but, it has enough wrong with it, and, those things that are wrong, aren't just nitpicks. Like, it does become, a drag, just to fight in this game, about fighting. So, I can't put it on the essential games list, but I do think that, it has a lot, going for it. Yeah, I actually really enjoyed this game, at first, and, I'll even go as far as say, it's better than it's arcade,

40:37 um, you know, original. Like, uh, yeah, that has two players, so that's definitely, like, if that's the kind of thing you enjoy, and I do think beat-em-ups are probably better, with two players, or, if you can even get, games like, X-Men or The Simpsons, where you can have four, obviously that's a, a different kind of experience, but just on the single player level, I enjoyed the NES game, more than the arcade version, and I thought this game, was really serviceable, until, I went back to Double Dragon, our actual, beat-em-up essential game, and, you're allowed to have more than, one in a particular genre, but, it just seems like, you know, Double Dragon was so long ago now, and I feel like, Prisoners of War,

41:15 tried to, you know, either like, learn something from it, but didn't take away, like, the right lessons, and, I'm looking for that kind of game, that improves upon Double Dragon, because Double Dragon's like, the Super Mario Brothers, of the beat-em-up genre, for me right now, of, it lays down the groundwork, there's definitely room for improvement, but I feel like, these kinds of games, where, it doesn't have all of the check boxes, that Double Dragon fulfills, it's like, they can't quite make it there yet, because they are, a little,

41:44 outdated now, you know, they don't have enough going for them, in 2022, and that's ultimately, what the Essential Games List is about, so, I agree with Sean, I think it's a play it, for fans of beat-em-ups, but, if you're looking for like, games that you must play, I don't think it's quite there, what about you Joe? Well, yeah, right out of the gate, I'm going to say that, I definitely agree, that it's at least a play it, you know, it's got some, like I said, the enemy variety,

42:10 just the boss designs, and everything, it's got some, it does things, it does a lot of things well, but the thing that it, that it immediately comes down to, for me, as far as putting on the Essential Games, this is actually what I, what I brought up at the beginning, which is, something about this game, just doesn't feel like, it's action packed enough, or like, not that it has to be action packed, but like, as far as, a beat-em-up goes, I want it to be reaction based, I want to be excited, and I'm just not getting that, out of this, and, that, coupled with some of the other things, you guys mentioned, like, like how later in the game, people just become these, these bullet sponges,

42:52 it, it feels, like, I, it's funny, I've been kind of like, I keep flirting with this same phrase, the last few times, something has been, like, we've been talking about Essential Games, of like, the idea that, this game didn't do anything wrong, it just didn't like, do anything right enough, and I, and I think like, to, to boil that down a little more, is that like, I'll say that it, it didn't age well, not in the sense that like, wow, it's, it's so broken now, because like, we didn't know how to make good game controls, back then, it, it's more that it's like, just, games in this genre,

43:30 have gotten more fun since, in my opinion, not even like, very recently, like, even just probably, you know, a few years after this, or like, you know, Super Nintendo days, I think about playing that, and I, they, they learned to get, to be more fun, you know, in a way that like, this game probably wasn't doing anything wrong, but it just isn't at that level yet, because it doesn't have the experience, from the past to draw on, or, or something, so, in the end, I think that this game, was, is fun in the context, of when it came out, and it, and it's still, fun enough now, if you want to go back, and, and play a beat em up, and just have a good time, but, but not fun enough, to be on the essential games list.

44:14 Alright, and there you have it, three no's, but also three play it's, so, take that for what you will, uh, definitely, you know, I was surprised by the game, just because SNK, has had a, uh, mixed output, on the NES so far, next week, we will be playing, the opposite of a beat em up, in Sesame Street ABC, I, I can't think of anything, further away from, Big hype. Yeah, exactly, we played Sesame Street, one, two, three, they, uh, decided to skip, four, five, six, and go right to ABC, we'll see how it is,

44:47 and, um, you know, I'm sure it'll be a much heated discussion, just like how, one, two, three was, now if you're saying, how could that have had a heated discussion, you guys are gonna waste my time, we're not gonna waste your time, because trust me, if you go back to that Sesame Street, one, two, three episode, that could have been the last episode, of the podcast, I don't know if me and Sean have ever fully, uh, talked about that after the record, you know, no, we don't wanna, you don't wanna bring up bad blood, exactly, so, get ready for next week,

45:15 Sesame Street, one, two, three is essential listening, uh, to prepare for next week's Sesame Street ABC, in the meantime, if you're looking for even more nostalgia, don't forget about the Twitter, at NostalgiaCast, or the website, NostalgiaCast.com, if you want even more than that, God bless you, because we actually have a Patreon, uh, account now, and we have a, another show on there called Nostalgia Bites, where we do Famicom, uh, games, we have five episodes of that so far, so, as soon as you join, you get access to five new episodes, episodes of Nostalgia, that you have never heard anywhere else, and all sorts of other goodies too, we were giving away stickers,

45:52 we, we talk about what we've been playing, we have a private Discord, think about that, you know you want in on that, if you said right now, hard pass, just tweeted us, telling us which one of us, you don't like enough, that you would rather not be on the Discord with us, and we'll leave, and, and tell me why it's me,

46:10 no, like, I'm trying to practice self-improvement, I'm trying to become a better person, Sesame Street can also teach you about those things, Sean, but I gotta get through the ABCs first, yeah, right, also, ABCs first, being a good person second, wait, speaking of which though, like, you said that, that they skipped four, five, six, and went straight to ABC, did you expect them to go through all the numbers, before they went to letters? At least through like, 9, 11, 12, 9, 11, I would say even to, even to zero, you know, Sesame Street, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and then Sesame Street, Zero being like the reboot of the series, I don't even remember, Sesame Street Zero, missing 10, anyway, bye, bye! Bye!

47:22 Thank you.