326 · Pinball Quest

• Once you’ve seen Pinball Quest, you’ve seen everything
• NES Longplay
• Manual
• Pinball can be just about any genre once you bring it to video game. Where’s the Battle Royale, Fighting Game, Point and Click, SHMUP Pinball games?
• Plot
• Physics
• "RPG mode"
  • Control the silver pinball and progresses through a six-level castle to rescue Princess Bali from Beezelbub, the "Dark Lord of the Machine."
  • It’s all done via flippers across many screens.
  • Accomplish objectives, such as hitting targets or defeating an enemy.
  • Earn gold which can be spent at the Black Market, purchase upgraded flippers and stoppers.
  • STAGES
    • Tomb (the Captain's Spirit, skeletons)
    • Gate (Ziffroo the witch, demon dogs)
    • Goblins (goblin kids, goblin guards)
    • River ("toitles," "Wheel O' Luck," dark knights)
    • Harpy (harpy, demon guards)
    • Throne room (Beezelbub)
• "Circus"
  • A standalone pinball cabinet, but it’s actually casino themed?
• "Viva! Golf"
  • Thought it was gonna be some crazy golf game where each hit of the flipper counts as a stroke, but it’s actually just a gopher lawn care clean up game
• "Pop! Pop!"
  • Bowling meets Billiards. No really, it’s both of those combined
  • Compete with friends to knock down pins to enter a jukebox to land on a billiards table and shoot the balls into the pockets
• Sequels and spinoffs
  • Some related pinball games
    • Living Ball Released 1994 on Amiga, 1995 on DOS
      • Living Ball boasts of "the largest pinball table ever created", and can back it up with the 99-level table "Wasteland"
    • Yoku’s Island
      • Not RPG, but Metroidvania like pinball game
• EGL
• Next week - Pinball Quest
• NEStalgia Byte

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Pinball Quest. Once you've seen Pinball Quest, you've seen everything.

00:21 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Well, that's a wrap for the show. We've seen everything now. Pinball Quest is the last thing that anybody can see. Once they've seen that, it's done. I'm actually glad I didn't read the back of the box before playing this game, because I feel like then I would have played this whole game with a trying-to-prove-it-wrong attitude. Like, okay, we'll see, Pinball Quest, just how crazy you are. I mean, to its credit, it is pretty crazy. It is. It is. That's why I'm glad I didn't play it with the attitude of trying to disprove its craziness, because I'm stubborn like that.

01:06 Pinball can be just about any genre once you bring it to video game form. Like, in its traditional arcade form, it is a little limited, but we have seen some experimental things. However, once you make it a video game, as we've already seen on some other things, it's like, oh, now it's a... It's a fighting game. Fighting game, sporting thing. Now it's an RPG in this one. But where's the Pinball Battle Royale? Where's my Pinball 99? Nintendo will get there soon. Where's my point-and-click pinball game, where I just drag the ball around with a mouse through the course?

01:43 Where's my shmup pinball game? What about the clicker? I guess that's just regular pinball as a clicker, sort of. The pinball clicker, but you have to click left flipper, right flipper, and everything, like a certain amount of times. Yeah. Okay. I like that. Only when the ball is near it, so you can hit the ball. An MMO play-by-mail pinball game. Oh. Ooh. Oh, it's almost like a... What do you call it? Like a... Shit, of course, I'm going to draw a blank on what this is called.

02:11 When there's like a game that you got like, oh, go to these coordinates, and you'll find something, and everyone's doing it. Oh, like geocaching? Sort of. That's what I would have thought that you were talking about. What's it called? I don't know, man. Let's keep going with the episode while I silently... Yeah, just shout it out whenever you're ready. I will. In the middle of the episode.

02:31 So, there is the RPG mode. It would make sense to probably start there, but we're not going to do that because I want to finish with... Yeah, I want to finish with some good steam on this episode. So, instead, we're going to start with the other three cabinets, which trick you into thinking that they may be like other modes in addition to that RPG mode. They are straight up calling it RPG mode, by the way. So, that's interesting in itself. But then there's circus, Viva Golf, Pop Pop, and you're like, oh, wow, they have these other spins on pinball, too?

03:03 And it's like, no, these are just pinball machines simulated in video game form. But they do things that a normal pinball machine can't do, which passes the video game test of why bother making this at all, right? Like, sometimes we've seen pinball games that are just pinball, and that's fine if it's like on modern hardware and it's trying to be like a simulation of pinball. But here, it's kind of nice when it's like, for instance, the Pop Pop one, which sounds weird. I sound like I'm calling out for my grandfather. But on Pop Pop, it's bowling meets billiards.

03:44 And there's also a jukebox that you can shoot into. But don't mind that, because the bowling meets billiards thing is actually pretty neat. There's, you're a pinball, so it naturally makes sense that you would hit down pins, right? That's cool in itself. But then... All of these start with, you're a pinball. Yeah, you're a pinball. Or you're just a ball, right? The pinball is like the entire machine. The ball in pinball isn't a pinball? I think we've talked about this before, and I said it was.

04:12 Yeah, I would think like a baseball is in the sport of baseball. But it's also called a baseball. There you go. We'll call it the cursor ball. When you knock down all the pins, which are not like, don't picture an actual just, you know, straight line bowling pinball machine. It's more like a regular pinball machine with like pins scattered around a certain area.

04:36 Once you clear all those out, you have the ability to go down into the billiards machine, and you can start clearing off other balls inside there via this little billiards minigame. I didn't even think you needed to clear the pin. Like, I would get into the billiards thing quite a bit, actually, without clearing the pins. The, like, the nine pin arrangement in the middle, I think you have to clear. Not the other ones that are like randomly scattered.

05:00 But it doesn't matter. I thought there was like just a thing you could hit that would just take you in. I mean, I got in there so often that I thought that that... It was just happening to me. I'm inclined to believe what Sean said. Because I believe you have to do something. I don't think you just fall into there. But who knows?

05:15 You know, just point being that Pop Pop alone is like offering something, you know, somewhat unique to what video games can do in pinball versus what a pinball machine could do, right?

05:30 It's bringing in that video game aspect, that thing we like. And so, just to move along, you guys can share your thoughts eventually. But just to move along, we have Viva Golf. And that's the, you know, oh, now it's another pinball machine, but it's all golf themed. And I thought it was going to be where, like, you know, it's some kind of crazy golf game where every time you use the flippers, it, like, counts as a stroke. And you have to try to get it in a hole. And then that's, like, your score for the hole. And you do this through 19 courses, 18 courses, like any other golf game. But that's not what it was.

06:06 Instead, it was actually just, like, a gopher cleanup game where you just try to beat the shit out of gophers until they go away and keep your lawn nice and safe. And then there's circus. And circus is another standalone pinball cabinet. But it's actually a little bit casino themed. There's a slot machine in there. I don't think I've ever seen a slot machine at a circus. But Joe will let me know if that's not true or not. Well, I see, I only go to casinos, not to circuses.

06:33 Got it. Have you ever seen an elephant? Have you ever seen an elephant at a casino? I haven't seen an elephant at a casino. So I guess it probably couldn't go the other way either.

06:41 Right. And the reason why I did that quick wrap up, if you will, of the three other ones. Yeah, you can talk now about them. The reason why I did that quick thing about them was just to say that, like, you know, that is, that's the standard, like, okay, PimBot, right? We've played other games like that where it's like, yeah, we're just going to video gameize or video gameify pinball in a way that you couldn't do on an actual machine. And then there's this whole, like, RPG mode that we definitely have to talk about.

07:13 So just thoughts in general. Let's not break down each cabinet, but just thoughts in general on the, what appears to be a large selection of the menu screen, Circus, Viva Golf, and Pop Pop. Well, first of all, it was an ARG, an alternate reality game that I was thinking of. Hmm. Good to know.

07:34 Second of all, this is, like, this is already doing, just with these three modes, already doing, like, exactly what I, like, have been wanting from other pinball games that we've played on the NES, where it's like, yeah, it's like not keeping itself limited to the physics of real pinball. Like, you can, I mean, you can move your flippers, like, from the bottom to the top. That's, like, actually a big part of the game. And, like, yeah, your ball goes into this, like, tiny little billiards thing, and then you've got to, like, aim the ball. Like, things that, like, wouldn't really work on an actual pinball machine. And that already made me, like, interested, at least, in this game.

08:13 Yeah, I think this is kind of doing the, like, you know, video gamify pinball in a way that's not just trying to be pinball. I think in terms of, like, my favorites, like, it kind of is in order in which Mike described them, where I think I had a lot of fun with the billiard, the billiard bowling one. And then in terms of just, like, theming, I really liked the golf one, and then the circus one was just kind of, like, whatever.

08:48 But, like, these really are just, like, sideshows to the other mode. Right. But it's nice to have. It's nice to have, like, even though we haven't gotten into the other mode, it's nice to have it. Like, if you want that to be the main thing, it's nice to be like, oh, I want to just sit down and just, like, play regular pinball.

09:03 Yeah. And yet, if you bought the game because it was a pinball RPG, like the back of the box touts it as, it's interesting that if you went straight to the RPG mode and then said, like, oh, let me go see what, like, circus mode was about. And then just found out that that was just straight up pinball.

09:20 Right. You might have a different experience. But I will say, all three of these machines are not even just competent plays or whatever, but they're some of the more pure, while being video game enhanced, like, they're some of the more pure pinball experiences to be had on the NES. I feel like the physics don't bother me at all. Like, the ball's not too floaty or whatever. Things don't just, like, sit. There's not too many, like, pitfalls to just, like, lose your ball.

09:52 You have that unique control of the flippers that Joe was talking about where, like, you choose to raise them up and down, which is pretty unique for a pinball game and not possible in real life. But there's also, like, objectives, right? There's, like, things you should be doing, like clearing pins. Like, it's not just about hitting a bunch of bumpers and causing your points to go up. There's actual, like, things you can do on the screen. And so while they might be disappointing coming off of the RPG mode, they are certainly giving you more than some of the other NES pinball games we have played.

10:30 But Sean, you said that you might have, or at least what I was interpreting is that Circus wasn't quite cutting it for you, based on the order I read the games in. And that was the last one I read. Was it because there wasn't, like, a second screen or another, like, objective thing to do, and instead it was just, hey, yeah, hope you land in the slot machine for some extra fun. Otherwise, just hit some bumpers.

10:57 Yeah, I mean, compared to the other two, which I thought, like, played with their concepts a bit more, like, it just felt more phoned in than the other ones. Yeah, that's what I was, like, I agree with that, because I was going to say that, like, the only, like, really interesting thing at the Circus is that slot machine. And then, like, that's kind of, I don't know, it doesn't, like, even really play into the rest of it. It's just, like, there. And what's funny is they go in the order that Sean thought they were most fun to least fun. I'm not picking on you, Sean, because it seems like we're all agreeing on that. It's funny that it kind of, like, wanes down.

11:32 Like, you start with the pop-pop, and you're like, man, I can't wait to see what the other modes offer, and it just gets to be a continuously more dry experience as you go on. And whatever. They always say front-load your games, right? Always make the first 10 hours the best. But to that point, it's very weird to me that the, I mean, maybe it's because of what you said earlier, but, like, it's very weird to me that the RPG is not, like, first on top of the menu.

11:58 Might as well be hidden, right? Might as well be a hidden mode. Yeah, like, it's a good thing I decided, like, I better play all these boards, because I wouldn't have, like, I would have just been like, okay, this is just gonna be another one. It's cool, though, that the menu is also, like, a pinball machine, right? Yeah, with that little opening, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, it's like a super close-up of... Yeah, it's like the...

12:23 Oh, yeah, like the actual, like, selection. I was thinking of the, like, pre-menu, the title screen, rather. But, yeah. It's cute. It's cute gift wrapping. Yeah, you know, in the Nintendo games of the Black Box era, there was just like, okay, it's Mode A and Mode B, right? And it was just, like, a black screen, and it had the title. And this is like, all right, I appreciate you doing some extra work here. And it even has the when lit ad bonus and all that. And I don't know who that girl is and why she's under the pinball machine.

12:54 But she's got, like, that Roy Lichtenstein vibe going on, and I'm here for that. Very poppy. Yep. Like pop-pop. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Okay. Just end the episode there. Yeah, I wish. I wish, but, Joe, we have a whole mode to talk about. Oh, that's right. Because there is a game inside this game where most of the people who ever play Pinball Quest are going to check out, and that is the RPG Mode. A mode that is just, it's crazy to say out loud that pinball would have an RPG mode, but you control the pinball and progress through a six-level castle to rescue Princess Bali. I think that's right. Bali, not Bailey. From Beelzebub, of all people. The Dark Lord of the Machine.

13:49 And it's all done via the flippers. You're not in control of the ball. That ball doesn't, like, grow legs and arms and walk around the screen. Most of the time. Yeah, that's true.

14:01 But the actual, like, pinball levels themselves are all just... Yeah, it's just the in-between levels. Yeah. They're all done that way. You have to... Just like in the cooler pinball machines that we've always alluded to, there are objectives on the screen. Usually it's just hit an enemy this amount of times, and then that means that the stage is cleared. But disregard that because, you know, I'm sure they could have expanded on that a little bit to other RPG tropes. There should have maybe been some side quests or whatever.

14:31 But let's just talk about... Before you talk about the pinball aspect of it all, right? Like, introducing pinball to RPG. How much like an RPG is this? Did they earn the RPG mode qualifier? I think that the best actual description, the closest that you can get to what this game actually is, is, like, in adventure mode.

14:55 Like, there are parts between, like, levels that do their best pantomime of an RPG. But if you're actually talking about, like, how you're playing this game, it is still a pinball game with lots of set dressing and more interactable interactions with the board. And there's, like, characters on the board. I wouldn't say this is an RPG in the actual sense of the term. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't either. But there are elements. Like, the fact that you have a strength...

15:35 Level. Again, maybe that's not necessarily RPG, because it's not like you level up and, like, that's your permanent strength level now. But, like, you do have ways of, like, sort of customizing your strength and your, like... And there's a shop. Yeah, the shop. I mean, and I guess that's, you know, buying items doesn't necessarily mean RPG. But, like, you are customizing the board. You're role-playing the ball. So, like, I get that part of it. But, yeah, I was just, like, you know, maybe back then RPG was just, like, seen more as, like, yeah, these top-down, like, these people walking around on, like, enemies on the screen like that.

16:14 Like, that's unique. Maybe not necessarily, you know, not, like, exclusive to RPG. But that's unique for a pinball game where it's, like, yeah, there are characters that are, like... It would be, like, if you were playing real pinball but you took, like, tiny people and dropped them on the pinball machine. They can, like, do whatever they want. Like, they're not attached to the pinball machine.

16:33 And, like, that's kind of neat. You have some bosses to fight and everything, but... Absolutely. And I wasn't undercutting how unique and weird this game is. Yeah. I just think it's a bit of a misnomer. Yeah. I think that also back then, this especially, it's just, like, oh, this takes place in the era, in, like, the time period of, like, wizards and dragons that, like, most RPGs... That most people associate with RPG.

16:56 Yes. Without actually having those RPG elements. And knowing it's an RPG, do you think it's a mistake that it's mostly just, you know, hit enemies to clear them off the stage to progress? Does that make it feel more like the action-adventure game and less like an RPG? Should there have been, like, in between stages, like, a wizard tells you that you gotta, like, go up a certain ramp and do something a certain amount of times in order to learn the next magic spell or something?

17:28 Absolutely not. I think this is, even though I don't think it's, like, you know, it's that descriptive of a title or descriptive of, like, a marketing term, but I think that this is the, as far as they should have gotten, as far as they should have gone with this concept, I think that an actual pinball RPG would have been a real slog. Okay. That's interesting, because I do, like, I see kind of exciting and interesting ways they can expand on this.

18:01 Like, and I don't even know if it's necessarily making it more RPG-like, you know, but, like, saying, like, oh, to get new spells, like, it would be cool if there's, like, a part of the board that, like, is hard to get to. Do you call them boards? I don't know. I don't play pinball. Yeah, I think so. The part of the board that, like, is hard to get to, that, like, if you get there, you get the fire spell or something, you know, like, things like that, that'd be kind of cool.

18:24 And it's, like, it's maybe not even necessary. You can beat the game without it, but, like, there are, like, things that, my experience could be different than yours when we both play this game. I like the idea of, like, them adding things like this, and I also think that, yeah, I don't know about, like, doing so much more with the concept, but, like, they're very, as I'm, like, as I'm saying this, I'm kind of realizing this isn't what you were arguing against, Sean, but, like, I would like to see them, like, add a few more screens with more unique, like, ways to play.

18:56 Like, you know, there's, there's the screen with the knights that you have to, like, activate and take out one by one. There's, like, a boss battle. I'd like to see, like, more things like that, like, expanded upon.

19:06 I think what I mostly meant was, um, if it's, if there's going to be, like, a really in-depth, like, stat progression, or you're going to bring some stuff into, like, a, like, a turn-based thing, like, I think that would have been going a little too far. And if you had a bunch of stats to keep track of about, like, oh, how much drag does the ball have? Like, oh, I mean, they already have, like, an attack power, and you kind of have, like, health. I think this is, that's, like, as much as there should be. Yeah, fair. But, yes, I think there could have been, like, more cool things, yeah.

20:01 It's funny that you don't have to, like, grind stage one over and over again, the enemies on there, to be strong enough to take on the enemies in stage two, right? But, Joe, you were talking about spells, which I only ever really thought of as I brought up, like, that wizard quest that I made up. But your suggestions are good, and I do like the idea of, like, a fire that would be maybe, like, forcibly shot in a particular direction.

20:25 But I'm even thinking, like, why not introduce, like, some traditional pinball things, like a multi-ball spell, where all of a sudden you're, you know, you're three balls or whatever. Like, that would be cool, because there is the shop where you can buy stoppers and flippers, but that's about it. Like, there's no additional, like, enhancements to the ball that can be done. It's more like two, so the stoppers are the thing that cover the pits so that you don't fall into them. And then your flippers, there's, I think there's only two, right? There's the strong and the devil.

21:02 Is there another one? Yeah. Just those two. And those flippers just make it so that they, you know, when you use them, they hit harder than the base flippers. So they're somewhat of, like, an attack boost, but there's no, like, you know, to Sean's point, it would feel a bit forced if it was like, oh, you got this sword that you now have to, like, go into a menu and equip, but you don't quite see in the level.

21:29 Or, like, even worse, you have to swing that sword to, like, as you're using, as you're hitting enemies or else you'll take damage bumping into them. Like, I'm not advocating for that kind of stuff. I just think, like you were saying, I could imagine them having even more fun than this. What we got here is six, like, short stages that are prolonged because of the ability of the player to bump into these things enough times.

22:00 You know what I mean? Like, the witch on the second stage right away is an introduction and, like, you know, hey, just so you know, like, this is a game where we made a bunch of sponges and you're going to have to hit them a lot before you're able to move on. The witch is one thing, but then that moth lady on the stage after that or two stages after that, that is, like, it takes, like, 30 hits or something to take her out. Yeah, I died quite a few times there.

22:26 Yeah. Yeah, but you know what I mean, right? It's, like, it's either just your flipper, which, you know, you can, there are tricks in pinball to make sure that you hit things at the right angle and everything, but, like, that's what it comes down to. Whereas in other genres, such as the action game or the RPG, there's either the turn-based combat or the actual skill of the, like, in a contra game, like being able to dodge things. It's not really like that in this pinball game. You don't quite have traditional health and traditional means of attacking. It's just bumping into things like a regular pinball machine is.

23:11 Yeah, I guess more and more I'm kind of, like, aligning with whoever said earlier about, like, this is more of a pinball adventure game. That was Sean. Yeah, it's cool to me. It's really cool that it's, like, yeah, there's, like, all these different unique things and, like, each board you go to has, like, different elements to it that, like, are pretty unique from the one before. But, yeah, they don't really, yeah, it does not really scream RPG once I, like, put my glasses on and really look at it. Like, at first, I'm like, yeah, this is an RPG because it looks like an NES RPG.

23:46 And they probably intended it to just be something short, fun, and silly that could help sell the game a lot more. Yeah. It's, you know, it's not this giant quest or whatever. As I said, it's six stages. But it's also just kind of, like, you know, in between you're going to the shop and the shop doesn't really have that much for sale. And the way that you attack enemies remains the same throughout the game. It doesn't really evolve on itself. All that to say, did it hold your attention all the way to the end? Did you get to Beezlebub or want to get to Beezlebub?

24:19 I got to Beezlebub, but I did not defeat Beezlebub. But it did hold my attention. Yeah, I was very, very charmed by it, especially after going the route that I went where I just went top down and I just played pinball. I was like, okay, Pinball Quest is just, I guess the name is just a cute name because these are just a bunch of pinball boards with interesting things on them. And then I got to the RPG and I was like, no way. Like, you know, like, this is really cool. And it was interesting.

24:47 Yeah, charmed by it is the phrasing I would use as well. Just the whole concept is cute and fun. And I think it was really clever the way they did some things here. And that's really important because I think, like, contrary to what you said earlier, Mike, about the physics of it and sort of just like the feel of the pinball itself, I'd say that this kind of is lacking in that regard. Like there was, I feel like your flippers are kind of, it's kind of crunchy and it doesn't feel like it's as reactive as previous games that we've liked, previous pinball games. And the ball itself doesn't seem to have as many, like, trajectories that it can go. I know that it is like a physics simulation.

25:47 It's just not as crisp as I'm used to, I think. Yeah, I noticed that too with some of the flipper stuff. I mean, there were a couple times where, like, I would just barely tap the ball on, like, the edge of the flipper. And, like, it would either not, it would make contact. Like, it would actually, like, react as if it made contact but not actually go anywhere.

26:12 Yeah. And then other times I would do that same thing and it would just, like, fly, like, in a direction that I would not anticipate. And I felt like that, like, on the edge of the flipper was where the physics got, like, a little weird. But then also, yeah, I noticed, like, compared to other pinball games that, at least in the way my memory serves me, they were, like, they felt a little smoother.

26:34 Not that it really hindered this game. I just did notice it when comparing them. Well, here's a good test for the flippers. In the first stage of the RPG mode, after you destroy the tombstones, you have to go up a ramp. How many attempts did it take you to get up that ramp? Quite a few until I kind of found the sweet spot and was able to get there pretty, because I kept falling back down once you're sort of fighting that mini boss.

27:06 And I was able to pretty consistently get back up. But the first time, the first time's tough. Yeah. I don't know. I actually had to, like, scrub back in this video to see what you're talking about here, but that little, like, yeah, the little pathway or whatever. The thing that I remember helping me is that it's sort of, if you get pretty close to it, it then, like, sort of suctions you to it and, like, pulls you up.

27:30 Yeah. And I was going to say, like, that's a good test of, like, because it's not a large, easily accessible area. And so if it was, you know, if the flippers were terrible, right, it would be something that was very frustrating. Like, oh, man, even on the very first stage, right, like, I just can't get up to the next zone. But I feel like it's like you want to hit it a little later than you should in a way. But once you, like, adjust and calibrate, it's not so bad. Yeah, it wasn't game-breaking. It just didn't feel as good as previous games.

28:19 Did we mention that, like, at the shop you can steal? No, we didn't mention that. Like an interesting... I never tried it. I guess there's another RPG that you can be a thief, you know, the archetype.

28:31 But, yeah, you can decide to, like, shop, leave, or steal. And it took me a while. I think I had to look it up to, like, figure out exactly what's happening when you steal. But, like, basically, I don't know if it's a 50-50 chance, but you have a chance of one of two things happening. Either you just, like, fill out your inventory with, like, cool stuff, or, like, the devil beats you up and you lose half your money or your points or whatever you call it.

29:00 Yeah, and very, you know, that's a very basic thing that, like, they added. But it's, like, it's interesting that, like, they even felt like, oh, let's add this little, like, gamble to it. Did you use it often? I used it once and lost half my money, and I was like, well, that was stupid. And then I Googled it later.

29:18 Lost half your money as if there was, like, a lot to buy anyway. Yeah. Right. They just make those things very expensive, though. The flippers are pretty expensive. Yeah. Until, like, later in the game, you're not going to be able to afford the extra flippers. And then you just reminded me of the thing I wanted to talk about, the flippers. You know, that ability to move them up and down across the stage is important in here in the RPG level specifically. I mean, it's important in the base pinball cabinets as well. But, like, you will have to constantly keep shifting if you're falling back into the other zones. You have to prepare for that. And so do you feel like that added anything to the game?

29:58 It's fine if it added a challenge and that's all. But, like, was there a reason not to just have the flippers, like, be how they are in usual video game form where, like, you know, you just control all the flippers on the stage and they never move around? Like, what did moving around and your control over them add, I guess is what I'm asking. Well, to me, it added, like, a little bit of the progress that you're making through this, like, journey.

30:26 But also there were times, you know, there are times where you have to sort of, I mean, it never gets super heavy, but you do have to sort of strategically think about, like, where do I want these flippers to be? And there were even times where I was trying to, like, because, you know, sometimes you have two sets of flippers and they all four of the flippers move at the same time.

30:42 So, like, sometimes I'm hitting something from my bottom flippers and there's flippers just above it. And I'm, like, trying to hit with the bottom flippers and then move all the flippers out of the way so the ball has a clear shot. So I'm not, like, bumping into my flippers above, like, ah, it's a little easier to visualize than it is to explain. But that, I think there was strategy to it, yeah.

31:02 Yeah, I agree. I mean, there's enough of a gap between your input and the flippers actually getting there that you kind of have to be cognizant of where your flippers are. And that whole sort of, like, internal progress of each level, like, if you let it fall through to, like, sort of where you came from before, like, you kind of have to put in some extra work to get back there. So it's a cool little feature.

31:35 Yeah, it keeps you on your guard for sure, which is a nice enough inclusion for it. And especially in the RPG mode, it felt natural. The RPG mode is what I played first, so I understood it.

31:46 It's funny, then, when you go to the other pinball cabinet and you're, like, oh, this is just, like, that's what this game decided to do. Like, I don't think it was necessary in the other ones that you have to, like, also move the flippers around. Yeah, you could have just had flippers up there in the other ones. You know, I had another set of flippers. But I also think that, yeah, it is just, I think, the easiest example of, like, the developers realizing that they don't need to be tied to the physics of pinball.

32:13 Like, you know, that makes it cool to me. That makes it, like, if you're a pinball fan, I imagine you'd be like, oh, that's neat because I couldn't do this in real life. Like, that's what gives this appeal, you know, in my opinion. Did you see what happens at the end of the RPG mode?

32:30 Yes, I don't know if I understand it, but yes. I don't know. Like, yeah, was the magnet behind it all along? Like, what are they destroying at the end there? It's a magnet, right?

32:41 Yeah. Did they destroy the magnet? I thought they just got, like, sucked up by the magnet. It looks like they got sucked up by it, but then they make it, you know, they make it explode. Like, he hits it so hard that it, yeah. You know, to, you know, control a pinball, which is presumably made out of a magnetic metal, the magnet is, you know, it's like sort of evil and conniving behind the scenes, and you're destroying the thing that's trying to control you as the pinball. And I don't know. I like it. No, he went free. Yeah, it's almost like, it's almost like there was no, like, actual, like, wizard. It was just, like, there's a guy cheating while playing pinball. And it's almost like the Lego movie, where it's, like.

33:30 Yeah. I don't even remember exactly. Like, wasn't Will Ferrell, like, a collector or something? Yeah. And his son just wanted to play with him. Yeah, right. Yeah. Play with the Legos, not him. Yeah. No, he also wanted to play with his dad. Cats in the cradle. Which is really just Lego saying, like, the people on the secondary market shouldn't be able to make money. Because they make a ton of money. They make an absolute shit ton of money.

33:52 Yeah, I like your interpretation of the ending now, Sean. I see it. In fact, there's even a nice little, like, shot of what we presume is our, the ball that we were playing as. He has, like, a X where, like, I guess a scar would be. Yeah. He's being reintroduced to his friends. Right, right. He's like, you remember me? Like, I got captured and I was forced to be in a pinball machine. And so maybe, maybe we're the bad guys? Yeah, could be. Yeah. I think we were the bad guys in this game.

34:22 I love these credits, though. I actually didn't watch the credits until right now. But it's got, like, yeah, it's got that, that scene you're talking about. And then it's got, like, a little image of, like, the castle. Which, you know, we didn't know about until this image. But the, and it gives me very, like, square. It gives me, like, Final Fantasy Kingdom Hearts credits feeling. Wow. There's always, like, a video of, you know, I'll mention Kingdom Hearts in any context I possibly can. So, some other related pinball games that I just put here because there's no sequels and spinoffs. Living Ball released in 1994 on the Amiga.

34:55 It was the largest pinball table ever created, according to the box. And I guess they can back that up because it has a 99 level table called Wasteland. And certainly sounds like a waste to me. Of your land. Yeah. And then, of course, like every pinball game on the NES that tries to, like, shift genres. I have to mention Yoku's Island, which is not an RPG. But it is a full-length Metroidvania pinball game. And it is worth checking out if you liked this quick little RPG mode demo in Pinball Quest.

35:36 Which brings me probably to, I guess that was a controversial statement. Do you guys agree with that? Demo? I guess I'm not trying to reintroduce old wounds. Instead, we'll discuss if this really felt like a full game when we vote for Pinball Quest on the Essential Games list.

35:57 I played the RPG mode first. And I wonder how things would have gone if I just played in the intended order of the menu. The menu wanted me to play Pop Pop. And that's a good game. It's a good little board where there's some new things happening. But I started with RPG mode because I had to see what it was all about. And we're on limited time. And I do feel like RPG mode wasn't all the way there. It's serviceable as another little mode in this game. But it was almost like the way, because I picked it first, I was picturing that to be the campaign.

36:35 And the other three, as I pitched them even in this episode, are just kind of like, I'm going to hear some standalone boards. But I don't think that that's what the developers intended here. It really does feel like those three boards are just as important and probably got equal development time and thoughtfulness as this RPG mode did. Because this RPG mode is missing some features where those other three cabinets, Circus, Viva Golf, and Pop Pop, have some additional features that could have probably carried over nicely into the RPG mode. So it's a little bit of an unbalanced game here.

37:13 I'm going to put it as a no. But I do like the idea of a pinball RPG. And I think what they did here is exactly what I said before, the music. It's a nice demo of what a pinball RPG could be. Joe? So coming into this, I was pretty, when I first started playing, rather, I was pretty sure pretty quickly how I was going to vote. At least I thought. In the sense that, like, I thought, you know, this is a good pinball game. In my opinion, at least for my taste, better than, like, the other ones we've played because it's doing, like, these interesting new things.

37:52 But, you know, maybe I'll play it. But then I got to the RPG mode. And that's when I got, like, a lot more confused on how I wanted to vote. Because pinball is just not my thing. And I mentioned last week how racing games are just not my thing. But this game, like, sold me on pinball. And, like, that's saying a lot. Especially the RPG mode. Like, I just think that was so clever and interesting.

38:18 And, like, I love the idea. I love the things that they were doing in it. I do wish that there were more levels, maybe. More to add among the levels. And I do think that they probably were, yeah, maybe not sure how the RPG mode would sell. Because they're like, well, who's our audience? Pinball fans or RPG fans? So that's why they added these other three pinball cabinets to be like, well, at least pinball fans will still, like, get what they were maybe looking for.

38:50 But now, as I look at it, I do kind of wish that, like, if there are going to be four modes in this game, that there's, like, the RPG mode. And then there's, like, some other event. And then there's, like, the Contra mode or something, you know? Like, and they're all just pinball. Like, it would be cool if it was, like, four little adventures. And I don't think that that's asking too much. Because the RPG mode was not particularly long. And I could see them doing that, you know, three more times. Um, I guess all this to say that I think I have landed on this is, this is definitely a play it.

39:22 And I would love to see a sequel to this game that really blows my mind. And I think, like, I think I've answered the question that maybe we've asked in the past of, like, what would it take for me, at least, to put a game on the Essential Games list? A pinball game, rather, on the Essential Games list? And I think that this answers it by being close to that, but not quite there. So, not Essential.

39:44 Sean? Yeah. Um, I think this, I think that the developers totally intended for the RPG mode to be the star of the show. And for these other three to just sort of be, like, extras. Sort of, like, how Joe alluded to. Like, oh, let's just toss these in so that there's just more pinball.

40:05 Um, because, unfortunately, it is kind of, there's not really a lot going in the RPG mode. Um, but the short amount of time that I spent playing the RPG mode, like, I, you know, they, they prove that the concept is cool. And I did have fun with it. Um, I, I think that there are other issues with it that sort of undercut how unique and goofy the whole idea is. Um, at least in my opinion. Like, just the, the way that the ball plays is, is kind of rough. But, um, yeah, I'd love to see, I know that we're not going to, but I'd love to see another version of this. Um, a, uh, a lost sequel.

40:55 And, uh, it's definitely a play it, but yes, not, not essential. So, all right, three no's, but long cases for them. So, that's pretty good. Uh, I will back up Sean's claim that I do think, uh, and we keep saying I do think this whole episode. Guys, we just think it. I do think. Yeah, I do think. I, I, I firmly believe that they were, um, that they were definitely putting the, the RPG mode, at least from a marketing standpoint, first. And, and knew that that would sell, uh, in the age of Dragon Warrior and all that, uh, that this would be good. Now, it's funny, I don't think Dragon Warrior actually sold that well. Uh, and that's how it became, like, a Nintendo Power promotion.

41:34 But you get what I mean. Like, RPGs were, uh, they were on the rise. So, why not? You can see it in the name Pinball Quest, right? It's not Pinball Casino. It's not Pinball Golf. It's not, um, Pinball Billiards, Bowling, Extravaganza, Bonanza. Uh, instead, it's Pinball Quest, and they talk about that mode on the back of the box. About, like, it takes a fearless heart and a fast mind to conquer blah, blah, blah. You know, like, you get it. Uh, so, yeah, they were definitely selling all that.

42:03 Which just makes me think that that's all the more reason to put some more time into it. Massage that baby. Uh, I don't know if you're allowed to massage a baby, though. Don't do that. Yeah. Don't massage babies you don't know.

42:40 We're not into it. It's the end of the show. No way. That's the end of the show. It's the end of the whole series. It's the last one I have. Weeew! Wait, are we still going? It was an ambulance for me.