444 · Ski or Die
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- This is no place for flakes, dude
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- The premise and format Five winter minigames run out of a hub (Rodney's ski shop), playable solo or passed around a room. Simplest framing: California Games in the snow.
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- It's the Skate or Die sequel, snow edition Same format as the 1988 NES hit, same attitude, asphalt swapped for snow. Original computer versions were Electronic Arts; the NES port came from Konami under the Ultra Games label, same as the first game.
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- Rodney Dangerfield as the shop owner The hub's host is an open Rodney Dangerfield caricature, red tie, bug eyes, "no respect" energy, carried over from Skate or Die. He mutters sad-sack one-liners as you hover over shop items.
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- Late-80s attitude and tone Snowball Blast's targets include chainsaw bunnies, punk penguins, "Iglooheads," and "Bodacious Bears." One of the five events is essentially throwing snowballs at children.
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- The five events and tournament structure Snowboard Half-Pipe, Snowball Blast (a near first-person fort-defense shooter, unusual for NES at the time), Downhill Blitz, Acro Aerials, and Innertube Thrash. Tournament order awards 5 points to the round winner, then 3, then 1.
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- Controls remap per event, with one nice touch No single button scheme. A generally goes/jumps/launches, B throws or triggers. Downhill Blitz has a "Goofy" mode that flips steering, a small nod to regular-versus-goofy stance.
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- Uneven event quality Snowball Blast and Innertube Thrash are the ones people actually enjoy. Acro Aerials and the Half-Pipe are mostly hope-you-land button mashing, with inputs that can lag or freeze mid-trick.
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- Built for multiplayer, thin alone Like its predecessor, this lives or dies on a room passing the controller. Played solo it thins out fast.
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- Reception and where it sits in the series GamePro gave the NES version 17 out of 25, and later retrospectives are rougher, mostly blaming stiff controls. It's positioned between Skate or Die 2 (a totally different side-scrolling adventure) and two Game Boy entries that followed.
I. Setup & Premise
- The pitch: five winter events, six friends, one grumpy ski shop
- It is a winter sports minigame collection, not one continuous game.
- You pick events off a hub, rack up points, solo or passing the controller around a room.
- Simplest way to frame it for listeners: this is California Games in the snow.
- It is the sequel to Skate or Die
- Same format as the 1988 NES hit, same attitude, asphalt swapped for snow.
- The original computer versions were Electronic Arts; the NES version came from Konami under the Ultra Games label, exactly like the first Skate or Die.
- Your host for the day is Rodney
- Everything runs out of Rodney's ski shop, a hub you click around with a cursor.
- Rodney is a Rodney Dangerfield caricature: red tie, bug eyes, "no respect" energy. More on him next.
II. What Makes It Stand Out
- The Rodney Dangerfield thing (our weird-detail callout)
- The shop owner is an open Rodney Dangerfield lookalike, carried over from Skate or Die, sad-sack one-liners and all.
- He mutters comments as you hover the cursor over shop items, sometimes funny, sometimes filler.
- The tone is pure late-80s attitude
- The snowball event's targets include chainsaw bunnies, punk penguins, "Iglooheads," and "Bodacious Bears."
- And yes, one of the five events is basically throwing snowballs at children.
- A near first-person event on the NES
- Snowball Blast puts you behind a fort with a crosshair, unusual for the console at the time.
III. Gameplay Structure
- Rodney's shop is the hub
- You move a neon cursor around the shop and select events, the high score sign, and the play mode: single event, compete, or the full five-event tournament.
- Tournament order runs Halfpipe, Snowball Blast, Downhill Blitz, Acro Aerials, then Innertube Thrash, with 5 points to the round winner, then 3, then 1. (GameFAQs)
- The five events
- Snowboard Half-Pipe: ride the pipe, dodge hazards, pull tricks.
- Snowball Blast: fort-defense shooter, clear waves of brats and critters before they bury you.
- Downhill Blitz: two-minute downhill race, jump gaps and land stunts for points, even hop onto rooftops.
- Acro Aerials: a big ski jump, build speed, launch, chain tricks before you land or faceplant.
- Innertube Thrash: a two-player tube race against rival Twisted Lester, grab items and poke the other tube for points.
- Controls, kept light
- Each event remaps the buttons, so there is no single scheme to memorize.
- The through-line: A tends to go, jump, or launch; B throws or triggers; and Downhill Blitz even has a "Goofy" mode that flips your steering.
IV. Unique Gameplay Elements
- The events swing wildly in quality
- Snowball Blast and Innertube Thrash are the ones people actually enjoy; the trick events are the weak spots.
- Be honest on the show: Acro Aerials and the Halfpipe are mostly hope-you-land button mashing, and inputs can lag or freeze mid-trick.
- "Goofy" mode is a genuinely nice touch
- Letting a player invert the downhill steering is a small, thoughtful nod to regular-versus-goofy stance.
- Snowball spam
- You can just hold the button and sweep the crosshair to mow everyone down, either a fun exploit or proof the event is shallow, take your pick.
- It lives or dies on multiplayer
- Like Skate or Die, this is built for a room passing the controller. Played alone it thins out fast.
V. Music, Origins, and Reception
- Rob Hubbard on music
- Scored by C64 legend Rob Hubbard, who did the whole Skate or Die series; the computer versions especially are remembered for the soundtrack.
- A computer game first
- The original 1990 EA versions (Amiga, DOS, C64) predate the NES port, and the DOS version even supported Roland MT-32 and AdLib. The NES cart arrived around the start of 1991.
- Reception was lukewarm
- GamePro gave the NES version 17 out of 25, and later retrospectives are rougher, mostly blaming stiff, unreliable controls. (GamePro)
VI. Sequels and Spinoffs
- Where it sits in the Skate or Die series
- Skate or Die (1987 computer / 1988 NES): the original minigame collection.
- Skate or Die 2: The Search for Double Trouble (1990 NES): EA in-house, a totally different side-scrolling adventure, not a minigame set.
- Ski or Die (1990 / 1991 NES): this game, the winter spinoff that kept the minigame format.
- Two Game Boy entries followed: Bad 'n Rad and Tour de Thrash.
- Recurring cast
- Rodney and Lester turn up across the series. Here Lester is your Innertube Thrash rival; in Skate or Die 2 he is written as Rodney's son.
- Comparison games
- California Games / Winter Games (Epyx): the multi-event, pick-your-sport template Ski or Die is built on.
- Skate or Die: the direct predecessor, same hub-and-events structure on wheels.
- Toobin': a good reference point for the inner tube racing specifically.
VII. Essential Games List Vote
- Case for Essential
- It is the snow-sports face of the Skate or Die series and a pure hit of late-80s EA attitude, best experienced loud, with a room full of people and the controller going around.
- Case against Essential
- The controls are unreliable and half the events fall flat, so as a solo NES experience it is more curio than essential.
- Research note: No dedicated Hardcore Gaming 101 article exists for Ski or Die (the Skate or Die series page is dead), so its slot was covered with comparable retro coverage (contemporary reviews, MobyGames, and series context). All four sources were otherwise consulted: Wikipedia and its GamePro reference, GameFAQs (Kaas walkthrough and reviews), and the NES manual plus back-of-box copy.
Found automatically from the transcript and checked, but it can miss things or pick the wrong page. Spot a mistake? Tell us.
Games
- Ski or Die mentioned at
The episode's game: EA's 1990 winter-sports mini-game collection, a follow-up to Skate or Die with five events.
- Skate or Die mentioned at
The 1987 EA skateboarding game that Ski or Die copies, right down to the hub world and the shop owner.
- Skate or Die 2: The Search for Double Trouble mentioned at
The NES sequel, which the hosts count as the middle of the three main games.
- Skate or Die: Bad 'N Rad mentioned at
One of the Game Boy spin-offs the hosts read out when listing the series.
- Skate or Die: Tour de Thrash mentioned at
The other Game Boy spin-off; Joe says it sounds pretty awesome.
- Tony Hawk's Pro Skater mentioned at
The comparison for how a snowboarding game's inputs should feel.
- SSX Tricky mentioned at
What the half-pipe snowboarding event reminded Joe of.
- Winter Games mentioned at
One of the earlier sports mini-game collections the hosts group this with.
- Summer Games mentioned at
Another multi-event sports game from the same family.
- Track & Field mentioned at
The Konami mini-game collection, a benchmark for button-mashing sports games.
- Slalom mentioned at
An earlier NES skiing game that also scrolls straight toward the player.
- Duck Hunt mentioned at
Joked about as a better use for the snowball fight's cursor-aiming and the Zapper.
- Space Invaders mentioned at
The comparison for a barrier that wears away as it's hit.
- Red Dead Redemption 2 mentioned at
Mentioned for its horse-physics reputation in a joke about ski tracks.
- Civilization mentioned at
The punch line to "Live free or die": Sid Meier's Civilization.
- Silent Hill: Book of Memories mentioned at
Offered as the most obscure Silent Hill game, an ARPG on the PS Vita.
- Silent Hill: Downpour mentioned at
Mentioned while joking about a Konami producer's credits.
- Frogger Returns mentioned at
Where the same producer got a special thanks, to the hosts' amusement.
- Dead or Alive: Dimensions mentioned at
The 3DS game Sean finds while checking whether a Dead or Alive "or die" pun exists on MobyGames.
- Donkey Kong Country mentioned at
Joe didn't own it on the SNES but did own Donkey Kong Land on Game Boy.
- Donkey Kong Land mentioned at
The Game Boy game Joe owned instead of Donkey Kong Country.
- Kingdom Hearts mentioned at
The game Joe has bought the most copies of, across every re-release.
- ESPN NFL 2K5 mentioned at
Sean's most-rebought game, after losing and scratching copies.
- The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time mentioned at
Mike's most-rebought game, across N64, Wii, 3DS and an upcoming Switch remake.
Hardware
- NES Zapper mentioned at
Where the hosts wish the snowball fight could have used the light gun.
- Game Boy mentioned at
The handheld that got low-effort ports and spin-offs, which the hosts say made Nintendo a cash cow.
Companies
- Electronic Arts mentioned at
The publisher behind the whole Skate or Die series.
People
- Rodney Dangerfield mentioned at
The comedian whose likeness runs the ski shop, which the hosts find baffling.
Film, TV and music
- SpongeBob SquarePants mentioned at
The cartoon whose ice-fort episode the snowball fight reminds the hosts of.
- Johnny Tsunami mentioned at
A Disney Channel movie about cool versus preppy skiers that Sean half-remembers.
- Aspen Extreme mentioned at
One of the ski movies the hosts guess at while trying to name the one Sean means.
- Eddie the Eagle mentioned at
The 2015 biographical ski-jumping comedy suggested as the movie.
Articles, videos and sites
- Skate or Die series mentioned at
The MobyGames page listing every "or Die" game, a joke about the database having 834 pages of them.
- MobyGames mentioned at
The video game database the hosts search to see how many "or die" games exist.
- NEStalgia Essential Games List mentioned at
Where the hosts' verdicts are collected; this one was not essential.
Other
- Tootsie Pop mentioned at
The "how many licks to the center" riff the hosts compare to counting snowflakes.
Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.
Ski or die, this is no place for flakes, dude.
And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. I'm Joe. And I'm Joe is what I normally say. You are Joe. Hi, Joe. Hi. How's it going, Joe? It's going great. I have a question. Did they invent like the term snowflake in this back of the box? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Yeah. This is no place for flakes, dude. That's what he's saying, right? I think, you know, I think the, I think flake as like a person who can't depend on may predate that. Yeah, but I don't think that's what they mean. And like who they're talking to people you can't depend on someone who's going to be late to something. Yeah. Someone who's like flaking out. Yeah. You know, like, oh, he's a flake. He doesn't. Yeah. I feel like that's sick powder, brah. I guess in that sense. Yeah. Cause it was like, it was just like, don't be late. Like that doesn't really fit the like, we're all awesome. And you can't be like a snowflake.
Well, what I found interesting was, you know, in, in the first like screen, um, you know, you've got your, your ski instructor or wherever the hell he's supposed to be. I feel like he also owned a skate shop in skate or die. Um, but he also says something about snow bunnies. And I guess that's like, are those just like ski groupies? I mean, I hope so because I have, I have thoughts, but I do want to go back to the snowflake thing for a second.
Please do this because in the, in the, like in the nineties, I was, I would have thought I felt like snowflake used to mean something more positive. If you were a snowflake, it was like, you know, oh, no two snowflakes are alike. Well, yeah. I mean, that's where it comes from. Yes. Right. But like you're unique. And then like all of a sudden recently now a snowflake is just like, I don't like what you said to me. Well, yeah, because we're, we're going through etymological contusions.
Uh, every week you're doing the coolest words on that. That word didn't mean anything in this situation. I know, but like you, it should, it should now mean something like you are just, you are expanding my vocabulary week after week. But the problem is I remember the words you say, as well as you remember the games we play. Yes. You don't remember that. I remember that. How this is just, I'm just pulling us back. I'm not going to let us move on with the episode. How do we know that no two snowflakes are the same?
How does anyone know that? We checked Joe. We checked. I could see, understand being like, it's likely that no two snowflakes are the same, but how do I, who's checking Joe? We know it's the same. Isn't it the same thing as like how many licks to the center of a Tootsie pop? It's exactly the same thing as how many licks to the center of a Tootsie pop. It's not. I don't think it's that at all, but. It's exactly that. It's exactly the same. They're basically synonym phrases of each other. They are synonyms of, of certain things, but. This is delicious.
I just have to say that there was this guy, I think his name was Albert Einstein. He got famous because he checked all of the snowflakes, whereas nobody's ever been able to get to the center of a Tootsie pop with just licks. It's impossible. That, that, that is true. And like, yes, we obviously all know Albert Einstein and what he's famous for. Yes. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows. Can I, can I ask a question? Sure. No. Ski or die?
Hmm. Stop. No, it is a good question. Cause like, is skier die and skater die supposed to be doing some kind of like variant on truth or dare? Like it's either you, it's either you ski or you die brother. And like, we live that, that creed in our, in our lives. Like it's like, no one's choosing the die option here. You could die skiing. Sure. I think it's just the extreme nature of the nineties. Um, and I guess if, in the late eighties, like, you know, you had to, you had to personify the outlaw life.
Yeah. Right. And it was skating and skiing. Does skiing, does skiing feel like the next step from like, like skateboarding is very, you know, uh, nineties and has that kind of lifestyle attached to it with skater die. Wouldn't like surfing be a natural partner for like where we go from here? Like, yeah. I do think that skiing does lack a little bit of the like cultural edge that skaters. I think it's skaters.
I think it's most, it's mostly people with, uh, with, with trust funds that ski. Yeah. Skiing has like a fencing problem where like the only people who fence also like, you know, have trust funds. I, I, I, and you know, all that would make a lot more sense because it's like a fence or die. Yeah. And then unfortunately there'd be like that one guy who thought he was going to be like making fences.
Oh yeah. Yeah. No, it's not that kind of game. My, my man, um, skiing though, just real fast ground us here. Uh, ever ski in your life? No, I've, I've snowboarded either. I've never done either.
Uh, I feel like snowboarding might have a little bit more of, of, of the edge, but it's also, uh, it's also very expensive. So yeah. And, and you snowboard in this game too, which is, I, I, I would like to say not skiing. I'll say this. I feel very confident saying that. You do, you do very little skiing in this game. Yeah. I think only one of the mini games involves skiing at all. Yeah. I guess it's like, you have to ski to, you have to ski to the events. So that's where the, that is the menu. You do ski on the loading screen is skiing also.
And the funny thing is, is like, it is, it is basically, it looks like, it's like, a reskin of skater dye. Like it has the same, uh, the hub world thing where, but instead of a skateboard, you're on a ski. Uh, the Rodney Dangerfield characters still here at the shop. He's, he's running the show again. Um, still saying like funny things, depending on where you are in the screen. But like all of this stuff, it's like, they haven't really like, they didn't introduce anything new here. They just said, Oh, you like skater dye. Well, we can do that with a whole nother sport. Except they can't.
Because skater dye. If I remember was all about skating. Each, each thing was a different like type of skating, like the half pipe. Yes. One of the other things. This is, they can't think of one more thing for that ski relating. There's a snowball fight. Yeah. The snowball fight's very funny. But like, yeah, yeah. Not against it, but I'm just, this is not, this is, this is a misleading name of a game. It should just be called like winter sports, the Ocho or something. Winter sport or dye.
Snow or dye. And, and the five events are, uh, there's a snowboard half pipe. There is a, what they call a snowball blast, but it is a snowball fight. Um, first person shooter, uh, multi-directional. Yeah. To keep in mind. Yeah. You have to like, I didn't know that the first time I played, I was like, why did I lose? You are a snowball turret.
Yeah. There are three other directions that you have to look in because you're being, you're being flanked from all four sides. Uh, just terrible. And, um, then there's also the downhill blitz, the acro aerials. And, uh, what they call the inner tube thrash. So we, we've got good names here, but now we need to get into like, this is the, the core of the game. I think we've already explained pretty nicely that like essentially that there is, there's two ways to play this game. There's either do them all at once or, uh, do them individually.
And for me playing this game, um, the last thing I'm going to do is just say, yep, I'm just ready for the competition and jump into it. Because a lot of times when you get into these mini games, whether they are from the, uh, or die franchise, or if they're just from sports games on the NES, they, they don't like become inherently obvious, whatever the hell you're supposed to do. You have to like see it in action. You have to look at the manual and be like, oh, okay. Like these are the kinds of inputs I have to do. And then you try the game again and eventually it works.
But, uh, the one where you have to, uh, do tricks off the, um, off the, not the snowboarding one, but with the skiing and you have to go up the half pipe and then do, yeah, the jump, you know, I read the manual. I played the game. I never scored higher than a 3.5. Yeah, that was me. What the hell did I need to do? I'm not sure. I think I did get like one judge gave me like a four, but, but then like another judge gave me like a one and, and it took me a few tries, but mostly with just button mashing.
But I would always just do like the one thing where like you, one of the random tricks where you like put your skis up in the air and then, and then you got to straighten out and that would give me like very little. And then on my last try, I did like a couple other tricks and a flip and I got like the best score that I got, but he still threw his helmet at the ground, but he was still pissed. So it wasn't a good score. I was only ever able to do one trick at a time and it was only ever like, you know, the,
the split, which I think is what you're referring to. Yes. Like skis in the air and then doing a back flip. Um, and anything else I was trying different button combinations. I just couldn't get it to do anything else. And yeah, I think it was a 3.5, which was the, the highest I got. Yeah. That, well, that game of all of the mini games of this, that reminds me the most of a lot of those other like winter games or, you know, athletic games type NES games that we've had where I'm just like, okay, there's like a code I got to put in to play this game. Yeah. Like instead of just like regular intuitive inputs, whereas everything else, thankfully
it was a little more like as much as it's like, okay, what am I doing here? Every time you pick it up, it's like, okay, I, I, I get the gist of it enough where I can figure it out without cracking up the manual, but this one not so. Well, I think they actually had to make up one of these games, like the tubing thing. Like I've gone tubing. I've gotten into a tube, gone down the snow. Yeah, you get your darts. I don't think there is a competitive sport where you are trying to like pop the other guy's tube. I didn't know what any of the buttons really did.
Uh, I, I, I, I don't even know what you were supposed to do there. Just to ground the, ground the listeners here for a second. The, the tubing thing is like, you're both on floats and think of like a lazy river, but instead you're going down snow. Snow tubing. It's a thing. Yeah. That's a, I've done that.
Yeah. Sure. But I guess what I'm saying is like from, from a gameplay POV, you're moving at such a glacial pace and nothing seems to matter that it looks like one of those, like you and a friend chilling at a lazy river. And then there happens to be like traps along the way and potential power ups that I didn't use all that effectively. Yeah. But essentially it's like, it's always neck and neck the race. Like there's very little you can do to ever like have a clear breakout. Because as far as I know, and probably as far as anyone else that doesn't read the manual when you play this knows, uh, if you press any button that really just makes a squeaking noise. Like the buttons just make you go squeaky.
Uh, at least that's how I was taking it. So, um, I have no idea how that works. I don't know if you guys ever figured out a trick to even understand it. Uh, if so, please, please enlighten me. I don't know that I understand it. I think I understand it, but I could be completely wrong. But my understanding of it is whichever button is the, you know, the, the like attack button
a or B one of them, you have to get, yes, yeah, you have to generally get close to the guy. But, but also I can't remember if you can turn around or not. So I found myself having to always get behind him and be in second place to stab him with my weapon. Which is hilarious. But that's what you gotta do. Stab his inner tube and then try and get the, like the air pressure meter to go down before yours goes down. But then also there's a finish line.
So yeah, I don't know if you're just racing or if you're trying to pop. Yeah. But that is a good, that is a good distinction, Joe, that like you're picking up. Um, I think you could pick up, uh, everything from a pocket knife to a dinner fork.
Uh, and, and you're picking those things up, but you have to come into contact with the, it's not a projectile that you can throw at, at the, at the flow. Cause it seems like something that's like, Oh, I got this power up now. How do I use it?
But it's all about bumping into, um, the, the other player because otherwise the only other interesting thing about this, uh, uh, the layout of the course and everything is the way that you like control your character because left and right move your character left to right. But then if you are pressing the A button and left or right, that rotates the actual, um, the person in the tube. And so you can kind of like push momentum and everything that way by, by actually steering, uh, the ship rather than just moving side to side. Still don't get it.
Yeah. And also like, it's just kind of like, it's just not that interesting. Like there's not enough happening here and it is pretty long. Yeah. Of course, like, like maybe they should have just been a series of shorter courses and you're gaining points and it's over five different races rather than like one really long race that just basically comes down to who finished first anyway. Cause that person gets a thousand points.
It's like at the end of the day, like none of the other shit even matters really. It's the golden snitch of yeah. Ski or die. Yep. Uh, you do get a hundred points for passing the other person. So I guess maybe there's like some gamifying thing there, but technically not because then they're getting a hundred points too, for passing you back. Uh, just another confusing thing where it's like, yep, definitely no skiing. Uh, in this one, there is skiing though in, um, the, uh, what do they call it? The, they call it so weird. The acrobatic. Oh, that one. Yeah. The downhill blitz.
And this one, uh, just, just confusing to me. Uh, this one I didn't understand, uh, maybe out of all of them because it has a real, right. Yeah. But it has like a real life equivalent. Like this is actually what people go skiing for. Right. It's like you go down the slopes and you like, right to ski. And then maybe sometime down this one, but there's like flags and stuff. And you go between those flags. Like here it was like, there's just a lot of like dead ends constantly. And you have to like take these like large leaps to try to like make sure that you get to the next area.
And if you don't know about the leaping thing, you're fucked. Like you need to know that you can jump. But luckily you can jump for like three minutes. So you can be in the air for like three minutes. The hang time is insane. Yeah. Um, but this one, I, I, what the part that frustrated or confused me the most somehow was was the controls because I was the whole time. I was just like, well, why is left and right flipped? I kept thinking this. Well, you can switch that, right? Oh, can you? Yeah. When you begin, there's, there's normal and then there's goofy. And I think that's basically like if you want to play inverted.
Oh, okay. Well, I didn't see that at all, but I was playing. It's, it was just hard for me to get my head around it at all because you're the camera is in front of the skier or above the skier or whatever, but it's kind of in front of the skier skiers is facing you. You are skiing into the camera. Yes. So the, but so when I hit left, he did go to my left and like after like 10 minutes, I was like, Oh yeah, he is. I'm hitting the left button on the D pad and he is going that direction on the screen. So I was like, well, why am I so confused?
But, but like, it felt like it was reversed and I guess it would have been if I, if I were in his perspective. But then I just realized that on the menu screen, it's the other way when you're like skiing around the menu to decide what event to do. It's the reverse. So that was bothering me. Now that I know that you had the choice, maybe this is less of a point that I'm making, but more of just an anecdote. It is still strange. Um, the, I think that's the default, the one that makes you feel disoriented, I think is the default one. Gotcha. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, you can. I never did. I only noticed as I'm watching a let's play of it. But it's cool that you can go to space. I like to do that in general. Yeah, I never even got anywhere close to that high. No. Yeah, definitely not. Me neither. Yeah. I actually think that maybe he didn't get that high either and that the skier is just incredibly high. You know, and like thought that they went to outer space.
That could be it. That tracks. Yeah. So dealer's choice here. You have the snowboarding or you have the snowball fight. Well, you're the dealer. Oh, okay. So my choice. Let's talk about the snowboarding. We'll save the best for last here. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I disagree with what you just said, but go on. Well, the snowboarding. I don't even know if I honestly don't even know if I agree with what I said, Joe. I just think that like the snow fight thing definitely comes out of nowhere. Oh, the snowball fight or the snowboarding?
The snowball fight is the one we're going to talk about last. Oh, okay. I thought we already talked about that one. No, we're going to talk about last. We'll talk about it more last. Yeah, more last, you know. We're going to make it last. We're going to make the conversation last a little bit. The snowboarding. I'll talk about the snowboarding. It was the first one that I played, and I was like, oh, this feels normal. Like, this feels like snowboarding. I kind of get it. Like, you know, a lot of these extreme sports games really don't feel like Tony Hawk, but, you know, the general, like, order of operations of inputs, like, kind of made sense. And, like, turning spun your guy around. It was like, oh, this is simple enough. Like, I get it.
I wasn't doing very well. I was still bailing, like, half the time. But it felt the most like, okay, this is ski or die, but with a snowboard. Yeah, I would. The reason I reacted so strongly when you said saving the best for last is because I thought that this was the best. I will say I wasn't thinking of the snowball fight. I think that that could be a contender also. But this one, I just feel like felt, yeah, it reminded me of SSX Tricky. Like, it felt smooth, and it was the most fun that I had while playing it. Not that I did it very much or, you know, didn't get bored of it pretty quickly.
Yeah. You know, it's a low bar. I'm not really sure what you're supposed to be picking up. Like, things you're supposed to not hit, like trees and rocks, which I don't know why that's in the middle of a half pipe. But there's also something that you get points for picking up. I'm not sure if it's, like, penguins or... Yeah. They do an interesting thing there where, like, they all start out as a small sprite, and as they get bigger, you can see that they look like these little penguins. But some of them start out as that same small sprite, but as they get bigger, they're actually something different than the penguins, and they're bad.
Do you know what they are, Joe? It's crazy. It's crazy what they are. Swordsmen or something? I don't know. They're rabbits with chainsaws. What the fuck? Oh, right, right, because of the snowboarding. Yeah. Yes, of course.
If there's anything that you know about, you know, the limited... Well, Sean really knows about that more than anyone, because he went snowboarding one time. Right. Which means I'm an expert. Yeah. This is why he's never went again, because of the rabbits. But it's just, like, it's interesting, because the manual does a lot of... And I was going to make this a topic, so I feel like it's a good part to do it here. But, like, you know, this whole, like, late 80s, tubular, radical attitude, like, on this show, I'm getting kind of exhausted about it. Like, I can't imagine what it was like living there during the time.
But, like, they're just throwing words onto things to, like, to plus everything up. And, like, so they're not just penguins. In the manual, they're punk penguins. It's like, okay, like, what about them makes them punk? Are all penguins punk inherently? Of course. Chainsaw toad and bunnies. Okay, great. And then all rabbits have chainsaws? I mean, I wouldn't say that. Right. So it says... That's kind of a stereotype. It says that they're chainsaw toad and bunnies. And then the note is that... Is that the actual snow bunnies? Are those the snow bunnies? Those are the snow bunnies, baby.
And the punk penguins are worth 15 points, but the chainsaw toad and bunnies are worth a face transplant, if you're not careful. The phrase transplant, though, doesn't that involve another face? Wouldn't that involve, like, getting someone else's face? Yeah, you have to, like, get Nick Cage on the line. This is how cool people talked in the 90s, guys. Like, you just have to understand that. Have you not seen... I don't remember the name of the movie, but it's about skiing.
Downhill. A movie about skiing, just in general? Johnny Tsunami. There's, like, the cool... Well, not that one. I haven't seen that one. But, like, it's... There's, like, the cool skiers. Then there's, like, the preppy skiers, and the preppy skiers suck. Yeah, it sounds familiar. I just... I think I know a South Park episode that parodies it. Yeah. I don't remember what it's called, but...
Great. Amazing contributions to the show. Not unlike anything we've ever done. Is it Ski School? It's okay. You think it's Eddie the Eagle? Eddie the Eagle, yeah. 2015 biographical comedy drama. Maybe. I feel like Sean was referencing something from the 80s. Nah, I feel like it was more than 90s. Okay, 90s. Was it Aspen Extreme? No. No, never mind. Okay. That's enough of that. Snowboarding. I will just say, you know, you guys paid some nice compliments there.
Here's another one. The actual scrolling effect of it coming towards you, even though it's not like a downhill and it doesn't have like a mock rider style twisty turns. It's like, it's just a very clear example of how easy it could be for legibility in video games. Like, there's a way to do this and completely fuck it up.
But like, you can see the scale of those things coming in. It pulls off this like, not even 3D, but just like this coming at you effect very, very nicely for this snowboard game in a way that it would, it works so much better here than the alternative of just like making it a side scroller where like there's slopes and you go up and down them with the snowboard and you have to jump over pitfalls and stuff. Like, this is just such a better way to achieve an idea than like the lazy example I just gave. So this was like also just a nice surprise because the other games don't go quite as, I don't even want to say hard, but maybe I should because it's all radical here, dude.
They just don't go like there in the graphics department like this first game does. I mean, Solomon already did it like 10, 5 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, but there's something even to be said about like the speed of how it scrolls in Slalom versus like here again because there's not like a, there's no swerving nature to it or anything and it is just straight on that it's just like, it's very readable at all times and there's no surprise. Not, you know, Slalom was doing that on purpose, obviously. So, you know, it goes both ways.
But it goes four ways in the snowball fight. Like, there, you have to, you have like this, you made this nice ice barrier wall to protect you. However, you have to constantly be sticking out of it. So it's not protecting you from much anything.
Occasionally, kids will throw snowballs and they will just hit the wall of ice. It would be nice to see that wall of ice like deteriorate as kids hit snowballs with it. It's this way it's like up, you know, like Space Invaders style. Like my guards are breaking up. You should be able to upgrade it. Yeah, you should be able to constantly. A game about that episode of SpongeBob where Squidward is in pretty much this exact ice sculpture. Squidward makes this. Yeah. Squidward winds up making this as his barrier. So I get, I get now why. And he's right, right? Because it was like, what if there was an attack from the rear? The south, yeah. Yeah.
So that's what's happening here is that you're being attacked on all four sides. And I got to say for something that it wasn't clear to me after it was and I started looking at like, well, what's what's actually being communicated in this game? They're getting a lot of information across in a very efficient way. There's, you know, there's how many snowballs. There's how many kids. There's how much time is left.
There's there's how many like kids are on each screen. So you can even see like a radar to show you like you are currently facing west and there are two kids here and then there's three kids over on the east. So make sure you turn over. And I was impressed that they that they actually move from screen to screen. It's not just like, oh, the people in the west.
That's like, like someone will move around from west and switch over to the north side of the screen. Right. And so my only complaint is and, you know, maybe you guys will share it or tell me I'm wrong here is that it just all happens like way too fast. And I get that that's part of the challenge of the game. But like I'm getting hit all the time. Yeah. You really can't like keep one one of your directions like at zero. As soon as you turn away, like three people will fill it in. I just kind of wish that you could have like you could have like upgraded to maybe like buckshot
like just different guns. Like you start with you start with snowballs, but you should be able to upgrade to like some higher caliber stuff. Yeah. You get the rapid fire. You need. Yeah. You need SpongeBob. He was used as a rapid fire cannon. Yeah. But you have that. It's still snowballs though. Like I'm talking. I want to live. I want like a rocket. On my head cannon. A grenade. You want a rocket launcher that actually shoots rockets. Yes. Yeah. Screen clear. Yeah. You want an ICBM that gets launched from. Yeah. I want to see a hole made in the mountains in the background. Yeah. When maybe, you know, like you could have a walkie in the game and call it an airstrike. A kill streak. Yeah. Yep. I played Call of Duty once. It was just like this.
It was literally just like moving a cursor around on a screen. Don't you think there should have been an option to duck? There should have been like a duck thing. I think there should have been an option to duck hunt and use the zapper.
The zapper would have been great. Yeah. I will say that it does feel a little cheap just having this cursor that you can just throw balls at all times. Like you. Sean's saying that he wants rapid fire or maybe he wanted even more than that. But you can throw these balls pretty rapidly. Like you must be like having some amazing system where with your left arm you have a pile of a bunch of pre-made snowballs and you are like dishing them over to your right arm to constantly be throwing them.
Yeah. So you're like whacking snowballs into your free arm at all times. And that's only in normal mode like when you don't have the power up. When you have the power up it's literal like turbo button like rapid fire. So I don't know how that's. I mean that you must have Spongebob. I appreciated the sound effect. Thanks. It's not going to. I'm sure it won't show up on the file. So no. Definitely not. For anybody who was curious Joe went like this during the sound effect. Perfect. It'll show up for you. Yep. Great.
So now that we've looked at all the games I think it's like you know it's obvious that the the quality of the events are are all over the place. But also just like the maybe and maybe this is related so maybe I'm not making a good point here but I guess I just want to say like the the quality that the designers put into each of them is also like different like the the snowball thing is clearly like a very like technically impressive game and also like probably had like design challenges and they had to build a lot of levels around them.
But then the tube one is just like hey we got this one we got this one layout and this is what it needs the power ups you can pick up and then it just keeps happening over and over again like it seems like that could have been done in a day and the snowball fight one is like you know clear clear the calendar.
I don't know. I feel the snowball fight was pretty simple. What I'm impressed by is that in like the downhill skiing section you actually leave ski tracks like that's that's something that you don't really you don't really see very often like actually I mean they're not footprints but like you're actually like painting a line. So I thought that was pretty technically impressive. Yeah that's like that's like horse testicles right? Basically horse testicles yes.
I can't just say something like that. I just need people to know. Everybody knows. Red Dead Redemption 2. They know. That's all I'm going to say. No I know I know but I just for the for the one person who doesn't it's like saying that ski trails are like horse testicles. Everyone gets it. Yeah of course it's the same thing. It's like saying ski or die or how many licks to the center of a tootsie pop. Is that even this episode? Was that or was that last episode? That is this episode. Okay. Thank goodness.
All right. What else? Well you know here's something. Say the line Mike. Oh I'm kidding. No. Or die as a series. Yeah. What happened? Yeah I mean well what do we have? Skater die, skater die 2 and skier die and that's it? Is there like a BMXer die? Drive or die? That's what I would think that you could do here is like you could just continue to do this. Yeah. Drive or die sounds amazing Sean. You should make that. Live free or die? Hard. Well that's just like life. New Hampshire. Yeah. Live free or die is actually they did make that game. It's called Civilization. Sid Meier's Civilization.
No for what happened to the or die series. I mean you know not to jump ahead to the essential games list but I think this happened. I think this is like. This killed it? Yeah. Like I don't know if it like this specifically killed it but I just think like it never it's not like I don't remember I don't remember enough about the other ones to say this but I have a feeling that like with three installments it never like got anywhere where it's like yeah we got to keep making these. I think it all just kind of fell by the wayside.
Well I here's here's an important context thing is that like there are there are some Game Boy games too. They're not there's nothing to write home about. So it wasn't just these three but these Game Boy games aren't just like Skate or Die but now it's on Game Boy. They got names. Skate or Die Bad and Rad.
And Skate or Die Tour de Thrash. Tour de Thrash sounds pretty awesome actually. Now if you search or die on Moby Games a video game database website you don't you don't really get that much either until you realize that you're on page one of 834 pages. So the blank or die game totally exists as like a you know indie game like that cure for the common cereal marketing campaign. It's like yeah we could just do that for video games. Do we just add or die to everything. And and so essentially like I could read off titles for days here. Trivia or die. Defender die.
Digger die. Climber die. Part of the or die series right. These are just games that use that. That's what I'm saying. Right right right. Yeah yeah. Right. And but but like EA made the original Skate or Die series and they just like left it to die. They chose die. It's almost like if they were a real corporation they would have trademarked the words or die. Yeah. In any like in any context. So you know the real natural evolution of the or die series.
Dave Meera's BMX triple X. I was gonna this is a bad joke so boo me afterwards but I was gonna say dead or alive. Ah yes. You're right. Now it's not even about sports it's like we just choosing dead or alive. And I'm looking at it on Moby Games and apparently dead or alive got a 3DS game. Sounds crazy. Anything exists. Just say it exists and it probably does. Probably exists. Dead or alive on the 3DS. Silent Hill on Macintosh. Game and watch. Right.
What is what is like the most obscure Silent Hill game Sean? Probably Book of Memories I think it's called which is a top down like ARPG I think. On PS Vita. Is that is that what it is? Yeah. Silent Hill Book of Memories on PS Vita. I'd say that's it. Yep. It is the last Silent Hill game produced by Tom Hewlett. Oh yeah. None of his games are very good. Okay. Let's see. Yeah. Silent Hill downpour. Frogger Returns. He got a special thanks in Frogger Returns. I'm not gonna say that he was the problem for any of it. No I know. It's just funny that like Frogger Returns special thanks to the guy who works on Silent Hill.
Yeah. Okay. Cool. So there's obscure Silent Hill stuff. There's obscure Game Boys skate or die games. Probably weren't that obscure actually. You know we don't talk about this enough but like what a freaking cash cow Nintendo had when they used to split up the consoles and the handhelds separately. Yeah. You know like think about it like I know that it wasn't a sustainable model kind of like how we have like cable and streaming services like you most people are just choosing one so that's why Nintendo combined the handheld and the console to just be a handheld console
but at the time they were basically just getting away with being like okay yeah you make the NES game and then you dumb it down and release it on Game Boy for 30 bucks instead of right yeah and now you can get it you can double dip essentially. But were you doing that? You know I was I was looking at my Game Boy games the other day because I still have all my childhood Game Boy games and I can say confidently no. No I was I was basically like I did not have Donkey Kong Country on the Super Nintendo but I did have Donkey Kong Land on the Game Boy. It was kind of like well if you have it here you're not gonna get it over there which leads me to my next question that has nothing to do with skating.
That's key. How many what do you think you own the most copies of? Like the thing you the video game you've bought more than once probably more than twice honestly. I mean it's gonna my I'll go first because mine will be a surprise to no one. It is Kingdom Hearts 1. I have many copies of it. How many how many copies do you think you have? I don't know I have like I don't even know where they came from just like when I moved into my house and found all my old like childhood games I have like four copies physically of the PS2 game. I don't know how I don't remember buying more than one and then you know I bought it every
year they got me. They sucked me out. Every time they did their stupid little 2.5 1.5 HD remix re-release I bought that. Oh it's on PS4 now? I'll buy it. Buy it for PS5. I'm sure I'll get it on PS6. I'll get it on PC. I'll get it everywhere it ever comes out. I'm a sucker. I'm gonna just because I think it makes it a more interesting question for me.
I'm going to remove the idea of buying the same game on different systems. This is a game that I've bought several times for the same system. Okay. And it's NBA and it's NFL 2K5. The first one I lost. The second one was scratched to shit. And the third one is the one that I've you know I still have to this day.
So I've had to buy that game three times which is very strange but that's that. Not a bad answer though. Both great answers. Yes. I was thinking about it and I think it's actually going to be the Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time which we had on N64. We had the original gold cart. Then I think my mom thought something was wrong with it. So she foolishly traded it in for the silver version of the gray version of the cart. The normal one. So that's twice already on the same console.
And then we got it on the Wii virtual the Wii eShop and then the 3DS version. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy this remake that's coming out on Switch later this year. So all that to say was that five copies? Something like that. Yeah. Not bad. You've given them a lot of money. I've given Nintendo a lot of my money.
And we've also given Nintendo a lot of our time doing this podcast. And for those of you that have been listening for the 400 and whatever episodes we've been doing. You would know that right about now when we start to linger on things that have nothing to do with the video game. Is a great moment to transition over to the Essential Games list.
Joe. So I might surprise people a little bit with the way I start talking about this. Because it might contradict what I've been saying. But if you were to look at all these games that we've played. You know winter games. Summer games. Track and field. All these games that are like a bunch of sports mini games. This is up there. For me. One of my favorites.
And I think that shows you just how low the bar is for those games for me. And I know that you know some of us like those games. They never really have done it for me. This one felt there were the most. There were the most examples of mini games in this. That didn't feel like I needed to do some kind of weird equation while I'm doing it. I think the jump off the ramp do a trick one was the one that did suffer from that. But like. I think these are. Each of these mini games individually are like more. Fun than most of the video games I'm used to doing in other games like this.
But still. I don't really like this game that much. I think that I. There are. The two that I like. We talked about the half pipe. I really enjoyed. And the snowball fight. Really enjoyed. But like even those. There's not enough to them where I like really want to play them again. The snowball fight was really fun. But to be honest. It got a little. It's just like. After the. The second round or whatever. I'm like. All right. I'm kind of like frustrated with this. Like I do want to evolve or. Or it's just. I don't know. Maybe.
The. The play would have been. Take one of their two. In my opinion. Best mini games. And just make a whole game about that. Put all your resources into that. And like add more to that. Because I don't. I don't really want to play any of the other mini games. So I think just overall. It. This genre. Doesn't do it for me. I think this. This one. Does stand out. But definitely not enough to be an essential game. Sean. Yeah. That's a really great point. Because. I think part of that is just because a lot of these.
Sport. Compilation games. So many of them are just. Mashing buttons as fast as you can. Maybe you're alternating which button you're mashing. But. Like. The older ones. Definitely that. I feel like skate or die.
This series has been a higher quality. Where it's actually like. You have to learn. A mechanic a little bit. And there's a bit more to it. But yeah. It's a very low bar. To. Get over. And. This. Does get over that bar. But. It's just. It's not. It's not a great track record. The other games kind of suck. Aside from. The ones that. Joe just mentioned. I think we have a very similar opinion on this game. I guess it has like a good sense of humor.
But yeah. Otherwise. Not essential. I think I just want to like. Talk about how confusing. Skiing is coming up. After skate or die. Like. This is a skiing game. First off. It's not even really that. It's like a snow. Adventures game. Is fine. Serviceable. I think that that snow. Snowball fight game. Is the standout for me. And like it. It's a fine. It's an okay game to own. But. When you're putting it in the or die franchise. Now. Now I get. I just get confused. About like. Why they chose skiing. And like. Knowing that this came from the skateboarding. And like. I'm never going to really understand why that. Rodney Dangerfield characters in this game. But great that EA could.
Either get the rights. Or. Get away with. Not getting the rights. But it's just like. It's just such a confusing thing. That that's the part I can't shake. And I'm not saying that that's why it's not on the essential games list. But it's just also like. What a weird way. For the or die series to go. So. That. That's pretty much it. For my thoughts on the actual game. I think that like. The actual mini games themselves. Are a toss up between. Good and. All right. One could say. They left the. They left the series out in the cold. Oh. Watch out for this guy. It's the snow is everywhere. Yeah. You snowflake. Hey. Why stop being such a snowflake. Hey. That's the end of the episode. I like it. All right. Yeah.