051 · SECTION Z

• Capcom shows up again, Report Card time:
• 1942
• Commando
• Ghosts N Goblins
• Trojan
• Takashi Nishiyama is BACK! The Trojan dude who went onto create Street Fighter 1 and then created Fatal Fury for SNK.
• PLOT - Set in an unspecified year during the third millennium, the player takes the role of an astronaut sent to infiltrate and destroy a space station orbiting near the Earth that is actually the secret base of an alien empire known as the "Balangool"
• Objective
• Questions
• What did you think of the Intro and cutscenes?
• What did you think of the use of A/B to shoot in different directions?
• Generating missiles pressing A and B together. Was it useful?
• What did you think of the exploration? Was it frustrating to jump up/down in numbers. Would you have preferred a linear path?
• Is the protagonist too big for the stage?
• Is this game too hard for your tastes?
• Boss Fights
• What mechanic/item would you like to see added to this game?
• Arcade differences -
• Practically a different game
• 5 stages/5sections 26 corridors total. Instead of 60 in the NES.
• A-Z corridors.
• Separate button for directions.
• Automatic Death when hit by enemy fire.
• FDS Differences -
• You can save
• Captain Commando is the main character!
• It is loosely tied to Side Arms and Forgotten Worlds

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Will you penetrate Section Z and defeat the Balangul Empire? You control the future of planet Earth.

00:23 NOSTALGIA And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. NOSTALGIA Guys, I gotta be honest with you, I don't know if I said the name of that empire correctly, and you guys know my track record for that, so anybody have any ideas? Balangul? Balengul? NOSTALGIA See, the thing is that this is a made-up word, so you can say it any way you want. NOSTALGIA This one, I think, is very forgivable to say it wrong. NOSTALGIA In a game where the big boss at the end is named El Brain.

00:53 NOSTALGIA Like the letter L. Like El Brain-o? No. NOSTALGIA Which is weird because, you know, in this game you're going through, like, the alphabet, I guess, and then, like, the final boss tends to be a little bit. NOSTALGIA To not be Z-brain? You would think it would be, like, the final, or a new letter. NOSTALGIA Oh, wow. NOSTALGIA Just a new letter shows up. NOSTALGIA That's how they introduce a new letter.

01:12 NOSTALGIA Alright, guys, we're talking about Section Z, which is another Capcom game. So I thought it'd be kind of funny if, first, we just gave Capcom, like, a report card. You know, like, kind of how they're doing right now. NOSTALGIA Can we do a quick recap of what they've done? NOSTALGIA So, as of right now, Capcom has given us 1942, Commando, Ghost and Goblins, and Trojan. NOSTALGIA Now, don't include Section Z, but what is your grade of Capcom, like, at this very moment? NOSTALGIA I am inclined to give them an A. Oh, really? NOSTALGIA I think, like, if I'm looking at it, you know, like, Ghost and Goblins and Trojan are great.

01:47 NOSTALGIA 1942 is fun for me. NOSTALGIA And Commando, with its flaws, was still, like, unique enough. NOSTALGIA Like, if those are the four games, I'm taking them over Data East. NOSTALGIA Oh, okay. I mean, yeah, you can put them over Data East all you want, but I'm still gonna put them on the cusp here. I think they're a C-plus for me right now.

02:07 C-plus. NOSTALGIA I think I'm actually kind of in between there, but for me, I haven't played Trojan. NOSTALGIA Reasonable Joe. NOSTALGIA You haven't played Trojan, huh? NOSTALGIA I didn't play Trojan. I do plan on playing it. It's very Ghost and Goblins-like. I feel like you might like it. NOSTALGIA I do plan on playing it before our Best of 87 episode, but I wasn't on that episode. But 1942 is what brings it down a little bit for me. Yeah, but no, the only game that brings it up for me from a failing D is Ghost and Goblins.

02:32 Right, and I do remember I was kind of a little, even though I saw the flaws, like somehow, I was just having a lot of fun with Commando. So I liked Commando. I think that they're making fun games for the time period. I'm saying like, yes, looking back on it now, like it's easy to be like, wow, those games sucked. What were they thinking? I'm talking about like, in the scope of what's been released. So the opposite of the essential games list. Yes, exactly. Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah, kind of. The essential games list holds some merit also on like how good the games were though. Yeah. They're still going to be good. Bad games will always be bad. Good games can become bad. True. That's kind of a scary thought.

03:08 But I guess you could kind of say the same about movies, right? Like, some movies just haven't aged well and they used to be classics and now it's like, I just don't really want to watch that. Yeah, like, you remember Cats vs Dogs? That was a classic. That was a go-to for you? Do you remember that? Wow.

03:23 I'm just kidding. It really depends on when you were born. Like, the 90s had a lot of like family-friendly movies that like, if you were a 90s kid, you just grew up with those movies and assumed these are movies and then you realize those are not what movies are. Except for Shrek. That's what movies are. Shrek is a 90s movie? Isn't that 99? I thought it was early 2000. I thought it was 2000. Yeah, whatever. I don't know. Alright, well that's too much about movies. Let's get back to section Z.

03:49 Another person who's back, and I'm going to butcher it, it's Takashi Nishiyama. Okay? Yeah. You guys have no idea who he is, right? Welcome back. Welcome back, Nishiyama. Welcome back, Takashi. Yeah, he's the Trojan dude, guys, who went on to make Street Fighter 1 and then create Fatal Fury for SNK. Oh, wow. Okay. So he's got a huge thing going on. If you remember in the Trojan episode, Sean, the whole reason why that was a big deal was because Trojan kind of introduces the first battle game for Capcom.

04:20 Yeah. You know, it had a two-player fight mode. Yeah, and I think that's really great because I do like the trajectory that Capcom is going to bring in, and especially this Takashi guy. Does he stay with Capcom? He doesn't, actually. Oh. As I alluded to, he winds up making Fatal Fury for SNK. Oh, yeah. And he's actually still kind of in the scene even today, but he's primarily just making fighters, and I think he's progressively getting more and more indie as it goes on. Yeah. He's leaving these companies and doing his own things. So that's my update on Nishiyama. I'm sure we'll hear from him again when Street Fighter 1 actually does come out for NES, and spoiler alert, I don't think that one's very good.

05:01 Oh, really? Yeah. But it's just the first Street Fighter. It's nothing like Street Fighter 2. Yeah, I never played Street Fighter 1. Street Fighter 2 changed the genre. Yeah. Wow, we can go a long time without talking about Section Z. That's true. Who wants to take me through kind of, you know, I'll give you the plot, and then you guys can tell me the objective, okay? Okay. All right, so for the uninformed, Section Z is set in an unspecified year during the third millennium. The player takes the role of an astronaut sent to infiltrate and destroy a space station orbiting near the Earth. It's actually a secret base of an alien empire known as the Balangul.

05:36 All right, well, and what you do to move this plot forward is you infiltrate, and yeah, you move between sections, which are not alphabetized in this game. We need to talk about that, because it's called Section Z because you were supposed to go through 26 levels of A to Z, and that is true in the arcade version. It is not true in the NES version. You are going to Section 1, and then 2. There are no letters involved at all. Yeah, I think it's like a, is there even like a symbol?

06:10 Oh, there are symbols at the end. Yes. But they're not like Roman numerals or anything. Right, it's just like a, it's just an unknown rune. And the sections aren't even in order. No, I mean you can jump between them. Like you can go from like 1 to 4 and then back to 2. I mean, and that's cool, that speaks to like its structure and level design, but it, I don't, it's an anachronism now. Like just the, or it's a misnomer, whatever I'm talking about. I like misnomer better. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, you're flying around through these sections and you kind of, you know, you have to shoot, it's a shmup, you have to shoot down enemies. You have this cool new system where A is to shoot like forward and B is to shoot backwards.

06:53 Yeah. And that's like, that makes you feel kind of like a, a badass. It is pretty cool. That was actually maybe the one thing that right away I was like, oh, I like these controls a lot because it, the ability to just not have to like turn to just be like, A is shoot to the right, B is shoot to the left. It just makes you feel so quick. Yeah. So much like a badass. It's the closest we can get to like a, a smash TV sort of a controller set. Yeah. It was, it was weird because I read it in the manual first before playing the game and I was like, huh, that's silly.

07:22 Like A to shoot in one direction, B to shoot in another. And then I was like, this is incredibly practical. Yeah. How else would you have done it? I was thinking like, oh, you could use the D pad to solve that, but you really can't. No. I mean, I think you, you could, but it would just be a, your, your movement would get in the way of when you wanted to shoot. Yeah. You would be like on rail.

07:41 But anyway. Yeah. Commando had that problem for sure. But I liked this and there's a way to kind of like manage enemies more so than in like a game like 1942. Cause in 1942 you could only shoot forward. So when enemies kind of get around you and behind you, you have no way of taking them out. And so this kind of gives you an interesting spin on, you know, the idea that enemies will just keep spawning. So deal with them how you can. Yeah. And I don't think we mentioned that you're not in a spaceship.

08:08 You're, you're, you're. It's like you in a jet pack. Yeah. It kind of, you kind of look cool too. Like the way, the way you're, the way you're hovering looks pretty bad ass. Yeah. So here's, what's crazy about that. That, that guy is supposed to be captain commando. Remember that guy we've been talking about all those times where it's like captain commando challenge series and all these captain games. Well now he's actually just in the game. They say that that's captain commando. Uh, I don't buy it because they don't ever outside of the manual reference.

08:34 They don't ever show him. Like it doesn't even look like the same build of a man. Like, well, I mean, I think it's a, it adds to the mystique that you'll never know what he looks like because he's got this giant like mech suit on. Yeah. But captain commando had like such a huge jaw. Like, you know, like something. You can't see this guy's jaw. I just feel like he needed a special helmet. You know, like. You needed a bigger jaw. The crimson chin. All right. Yeah. Well, it wasn't Jay Leno jaw, but it was like, it was up there in terms of, um, you know, 80s powerful dude jaws.

09:06 Okay. I think we should, we need to get like, uh, in the, in the, the show notes, a, like a top five, uh, 80s powerful dude jaws. Yeah. I think like, you know, Sylvester Stallone is up there. I'm totally. But where in the five Schwartz actually doesn't have that big of a jaw. If I'm thinking about his whole face is just kind of round.

09:26 All right. I have little to say. I was just listening. I was great in awe. Yeah. Everybody's in awe of the Schwartz. Slack jawed. No one's called him that right. The Schwartz. Nobody says that. I'm talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger for the uninformed. Of course. No, I know. I'm just saying like people might be like, I never heard it. Like Jim Schwartz. I thought you were talking about the, the spoof on the force in space balls. Oh, the Schwartz. Yeah. The Schwartz. Okay, cool.

09:51 Okay. So that's that. And, uh, now, you know, since we're talking about the gameplay and we talked about the end of each level, you have like these two choices, a path to go up or a path to go down.

10:03 And that can either send you forward a few stages, forward one stage, backwards. But it doesn't tell you any of it. Yeah. I actually had no idea if, if it would be the same if I went up and went down at the time. It was like, there was no, yeah, I didn't know what my consequence or reward was for picking one or the other. You didn't think it was apparent to you though, that like the two were different. It seemed like obvious that they were different, but then I would go and I'd be like, well, I don't, I don't know what would have happened the other way. So like, I don't really know what I'm missing. Well, the, I mean, there's an assumption that you will die and maybe choose a different door. So I think you will, you will learn that.

10:37 Right, right. To be honest, I didn't mind the whole like different door things. Cause I think it adds like one, if you're not the kind of player that's like writing down their path, it offers like a different way to play the game each time because you're not gonna, you're certainly going to remember like what you did on the very first door. You're not going to remember what you did on like the seventh door. No, no. Unless you wrote it down. But then like, there's also that cool like map making component to it where you could, you know, like log down, like, okay, cool. So this, this is how I did it. But next time I'm going to do it this route to figure out like which doors would get me to the end faster.

11:10 Yeah. I couldn't be bothered to make a map, but that's also partly because I, this game is really hard. Yeah. We haven't talked about that yet. I could not get far enough that making a map made sense.

11:20 So do you think that the, do you think that it was hard like right out the gate or do you think that it, no. Well, I mean, I think there's a really sharp learning curve, but the first level, it's almost impossible to die. I mean, it's just sort of like a here, glide around a bit, hit these guys and then jump into the base. And then the first base level is significantly harder. But you would say that's where the game got challenging for you? Like, no, I would say it got challenging maybe on like this, the next one, because to me it was like exponentially harder each time. I saw the difficulty spike when I got to the first like mini boss. Okay. When I got to the first mini boss, that's when, cause he's shooting two different types of

12:01 projectiles. One that's like, just one that kind of. Like a bullet. Yeah. Like a bullet at the screen. And then the other ones are like heat seeking missiles at you. Like, like they're like these bubbles that will just attract to you. Yeah. And I couldn't figure out a way around that. I agree. But I did have a, I, my strategy for that was because you have two, uh, little platforms, one on the top, one on the bottom that you kind of use as a shield. Just for the first mini boss. Each mini boss does have a different layout. Okay. Yeah. Right now I'm just talking about the first one. Um, but he'll, he'll shoot at you or it, it's just like a ball.

12:33 It shoots at you. And I, I would just hide under the, under the bottom one, fly up real fast to the top one. And then like, I'd have to just kind of watch where the ball's following me and get it to run into the top. And I wouldn't do that over and over again, get one or two shots in every time. And it took me forever, but, but I was able to beat it. But yeah, I also noticed a major, uh, difficulty spike at that point. Yeah. I think that from like, it wasn't like I died on the mini boss.

12:57 I think that's just where I noticed like, oh wow, this game is a lot harder than it made itself seem like just two minutes ago. Yeah. And it's, it's deceiving because, because the controls are so one to one. And I think that this game does have really good controls. It's that same. I mean, we've touched upon it before where, um, it seems like a deserved, uh, failure when you die. Um, sometimes it's just overwhelming. Well, I was going to say, okay, so I do think I agree with you on the deserved part.

13:25 Like, you know, you realize that you deserved it except for this one idea that like, if you come in contact with an enemy, you should auto die. I'm not a fan of that idea. Like, what is the point of having energy and health bars if, if just, if just, yeah. If at the end of like touching something, like why is, this is just a problem I have in NES games and games that do one hit kills in general. It's like, why are they always able to kill me? Why isn't there like an opportunity for me to just like punch that guy in the face and take him down instead? Or just like they, maybe they have the same impact, uh, weakness that you do so that like maybe they can die once in a while.

14:03 I think it would just be nice, a nice little variety, but I guarantee you no NES game programmed it that way. No. Where sometimes you're the one hit kill and sometimes you get one hit kill. Oh, that would actually be really frustrating. Was it, uh, did Mach Rider do something like that? Where sometimes you would knock someone down, sometimes they would knock you down? Well, I mean, if you, if you collided with anything that was just it.

14:21 Was it? You would blow up. Yeah. At least if it was head on. If you, if you just grazed it, you could, you bounced off. That's right. Yeah. From the side, from the side. Yeah. You can do from the side, you would bounce off. And I think you could even, you know, if you were good enough at the game, you could anticipate like a shove in Mach Rider to shove them over to the barrels. Oh yeah, I did some of that. That was fun. That would, that would be really cool. This is not the Mach Rider nostalgia hour. Absolutely not. We just want to see how many times we can talk about something else. I w

14:51 Thank you.

15:20 So, yeah, a different mechanic in the game that I rarely use just because it was kind of complicated and didn't work every time. When you push A and B together to get that missile to spawn in the middle of the stage, like, it just glows and then you have missiles for, like, a little bit. Yeah, I used it a couple times, but I was always too focused on just trying to shoot things. Yeah, exactly.

15:45 I didn't see myself having an opportunity to be like, you know what, now I could really use the missile for what's coming up ahead. Like, I'd rather just focus on where things are coming at me. I kind of forgot the missile was even there. I just kind of was too busy trying to not die. Especially because you do get power-ups in the game, and I think that those power-ups are pretty useful. Yeah, it does make your gun look pretty sweet.

16:06 I think there's, like, four or five, but there's, like, one that is just a combination of two of them. And it's like, that's the one I really want, but I think you need both prior to get that one. And I think they have, like, mega names or something like that. Mega names? No, like, each one's, like, the mega buster or the mega doomer. Oh, okay, the doomer.

16:28 I'm making that up. Those are not the titles, but I couldn't be bothered to look them back up. Yeah. Because, to be honest, this is, you know, we're talking about, like, the gameplay and stuff like that. But I didn't want to get too into the difficulty right away because it just, it does get so hard after a while that I didn't feel encouraged. Especially because when you die, like, all everything, you get flown back to the beginning of the section. Yeah. And you have to start all over. That is part of, like, okay, I don't truly understand what gives you, like, a regular game over screen and what makes you fly back to the beginning of it. Like, sometimes I would just die and restart.

17:12 And then sometimes I would die and start outside the base again. Mm-hmm. And do you know what that was? Like, I ran out of lives both times. I think I always died and just started from the beginning. You never saw the fly back? But there's, like, the fly, doesn't it fly you back to the beginning? It flies you back, yeah. But then you have a certain amount of lives and then there's a game over. Yeah. Gotcha. But it still flies you right back to the very beginning. So you get, like, one continue or something. Yeah, you get, like, one continue. Okay. I gotcha. Yeah. But, I mean, like, a cool mechanic. Yeah. In practice. But the checkpoints are too far out for a game this hard.

17:46 You have to get to section 19 and defeat the boss to get to section, I guess, like, 20 would be next. To get to section 20 and then that's, like, if you die from that point on, you'll just get blown back to section 20. Because how many are there? Are there 60? There are way too many levels in this game. Yeah, there's a lot. There are 60 in the NES. So there's three checkpoints, I'm assuming, if it's on every 20. 19. Which I did not get to a checkpoint. I will get that. I actually just assumed, like, okay, it's numbered now.

18:18 It's not 26 levels. They added levels. So this makes sense. I thought maybe there would be 30 levels. To be honest, I was expecting the 26 still. Just to end at 26? Just to end at 26. Be like, oh, well, that's how many letters in the alphabet. And that would be section Z. I didn't know that they changed it. Like, I didn't look at the arcade first. Yeah, neither did I. So I didn't know that they had changed it yet. I just assumed, okay, 26 sections.

18:41 So what happened then was, like, okay, I exhausted my ability to play the game. I was, in some parts I was frustrated, in some parts I was bored. But I did enjoy a lot of the time that I was playing it. So I'm like, okay, I want to see what else this game has to offer. I will watch a speed run of this game. And the speed run for this game is 40 minutes long. That's crazy. And it is, like, 60, yeah, it's 60 levels. And they all are pretty long, like, levels. Right. And it's kind of crazy because in an NES game, usually the speed runs aren't that long. No. But also, it's, you know, there's really no way to do it faster because you are at the mercy of the speed.

19:21 And at the very, not to get on a tangent, but at the very beginning, at the very start, you're going real fast. And then they're like, nah, no, just kidding. And we're going to sell you down. That's because you're outside, though. There are moments in the game where, like, later while you're in the base that you go that fast. But they're pre... Yeah, those are, like, section five, for instance, is one where it's like, you know, hey, you picked the right room.

19:42 Like, you can just skip right through this and go to the next stage. Whereas, like, the other option, I think, would send you to section eight that would give you, like, a cool power-up if you found it. But otherwise, you have to fight, like, a bunch of enemies. Mm-hmm. Unless you have something that you would like to talk about. I just wanted to move on to where I think the length is really... It really hurts the game. Okay. Let's hear it. Because I don't think that it's impossible for a game to feel worthy of that kind of length, especially in the NES time.

20:15 Mm-hmm. But the... Just, like, the lack of variety in, like, the kinds of bosses you fight, the enemies, I just... It doesn't seem to warrant being that long. Aside from just, like, here's a new pattern, I guess? Like, it just seems like different permutations of the same enemies, and then you get the same boss. It definitely feels like they made it longer, knowing that the arcade version is only the 26 levels. It does feel like they made it longer just because it's a console game and they wanted, you know, you to hold onto it longer and have more to play.

20:50 Yeah. Kind of like they did that just by spreading it out, not adding new stuff, taking what was there and, like, duplicating it. Yeah, exactly. Like, making more of the same. I think it would have been cool as, like, a sense of accomplishment, though, to split that into, like, a game A and game B. You know, kind of like, hey, cool, you beat the easy mode, now play the hard mode. Now play endurance mode.

21:08 Right, something different. Let me ask you guys, would you have preferred a linear path, or was the choice thing, like, a cool mechanic that you didn't mind? If I'm being totally honest, I don't think I've played this long enough to appreciate the fact that there are choices.

21:24 But, like, as you guys are saying, too, it is cool to be able to take a different path. I mean, I think just for a game like this in general, I guess I would go multiple paths as long as it didn't, like, hinder the level design. If the level design gets sloppy because they're making too many paths, then of course. Right, and I do think sometimes the level design gets sloppy because you go down, like, some wrong ones later on, and you get punished pretty hard. You get sent back pretty far.

21:51 And I don't think that that's, like, the appropriate way to hurt the player at that stage in the game. Like, they've made it, they've been playing for that long, and then you send them back a little further. I don't think that's the way to do it. But I just want to talk to you real fast, Joe, because you were saying that even though you only played for a little bit of time, did you not feel a sense of choice when you were going through the quarters? I didn't. I mean, I, you know, obviously there's two paths. But I didn't, when I went through, I guess I didn't expect the other path to be that different. Gotcha. Because it was, I was still new to the game, too, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

22:23 Maybe I wasn't giving enough credit, but, like, are the paths that different? They are. I mean, because you can skip entire portions of the game. And I think that's why I do like that, because a player that really enjoys playing this game and has played it a lot will eventually find an optimal path. Right. Or at least the path that they find the most enjoyment out of. I am a fan of the choice thing, and I would actually like, I would have liked to have seen it in even, like, other genres.

22:51 Well, it's kind of, I think what Joe was saying is he felt that it was more like in Mock Rider, how you can pick, like, one of the two spaghetti strands. Oh, okay. And they just sort of, like, feel the same. Right, right. But we know that they're different tracks. Yes. That is kind of what, without having the, without having gone back to choose different routes to, like, back up the fact that it would feel the same, that was just my gut feeling. It was like, what am I really picking here? Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. One other question. Is the protagonist too big for the stage?

23:27 I felt like he was a little big. I mean, I can see why you'd say that. I think he was an appropriate size. I mean, maybe he bumps in as he wants. It would be hard to dodge after a while if too many enemies were on the screen because of the size. Oh, I definitely found it was hard, but I don't know if I would have done any better if he was smaller. I feel like I could have slipped through a little more. I guess now that you mentioned it to me, not even on a gameplay level, just on a, like, what are we fighting? Because you're kind of fighting spaceships, right? Yeah, you're fighting weird, like, mechanical objects. There's even turrets though, too. Yeah, you're right. The turrets are, like, the size of, like, your ankle. Of your leg? Yeah.

24:02 So then I was thinking, like, I guess now if I'm looking back on it, like, who's, there's nobody in those spaceships because they're smaller. Well, yeah, they're robots.

24:11 The tiny little robots. Yeah. Gotcha. What did we think of those, that intro and the cut scenes? Well, there are only, like, two cut scenes, three if you include the, like, you fucked up cut scene. Right. But, like, I don't know, they looked nice. I thought they looked really nice. Yeah. Like, I actually appreciated that pixel art. And there was some good world building at the very start, you know? Like, seeing your character kind of, like. Is that world building? I think it's at least, like, giving me a sense of purpose in this game. Yeah, purpose, context, sure. Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah. Sorry, not world building. I guess more, like, you know, at least there's some lore to this rather than just, like.

24:50 Even the fact that you don't start inside the base is kind of cool. Yeah. If we're being honest, you know? Like, yes, everything gameplay-wise didn't work out so well here. But I think that they did do some cool things to make some nice touches and make it feel like a little more, you know. Like an adventure. Yeah, an adventure. I don't want to say cinematic because it didn't feel cinematic. But, yeah, adventure feels like the right word. You are going on a journey. Not the Rygar style. No, no, no. Not quite as grand.

25:17 You do do some stuff. But I do think that it would have, now just marrying that idea with, again, the idea of the multiple paths. I think it would have been kind of cool to have the multiple paths if there were, like, secret unlockable power-ups on certain paths. Oh, but there are. They're, like, buried in there. Oh, there you go. Well, there you go. Boy, do I have a game for you. It's called Section Z.

25:38 Yeah, I mean, you know, this is the stuff that the casual player is not going to find. But it will reward the other players that seek it out. There are, like, you know, if you go into a certain section, that's the only place that you're going to find, you know, like, this power-up for a while. Or it's, like, do you remember there were, like, those, like, circular tubes that were, like, they were, like, purple? Yeah. If you stand over some of those, they will form, like, an entrance for you and you'll get sucked into, like, a mini stage. Oh, I know. And then in there, there will either be, like, some enemies to clear out or a new weapon.

26:17 Yeah, some new power-ups. Like, so it's there. But what's really strange about that is that you do have to stand on those platforms. It's not just going to, like, show itself, be like, hey, you found the right thing. Because you're hovering over it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be like, hey, you found the right thing. It's like, nope, you have to look for it. I do think it's a good, just talking about standing. I think it's a cool touch that if you are low enough to the ground, you will just, like, plant your feet. Yeah. And actually walk. There's a walk animation. You walk and stuff. And I know that that's not, like, oh, it's so advanced. Like, no, it's just cool. I don't know.

26:51 They definitely didn't have to program. No, you could have just hovered. Yeah, exactly. And there was also those, like, those, like, cyst-looking creatures that if you shot them, they would give you power-ups, too. So there were a couple different ways to get power-ups. And I think that, you know, that's not my problem. Thankfully, this is not a Metroidvania-style game where you have to, like, explore the sections, find the power-ups to get further on. Because imagining a Metroidvania shmup is just— Nope. No, no thank you.

27:20 The shmup genre is hard enough as is and, you know, has its share of fans. I don't think we need that. But if there was going to be a mechanic or an item added to this game, what would you guys add? I think the easy answer for me is just more save points. Or not save points, but, you know, more checkpoints. No, seriously. Would you have preferred a save point thing, maybe, where it's, like, a certain section is just, like, you know, like a place to save and maybe, like, recover some health?

27:52 Yeah. Or even if there's a challenge aspect to it. It's, like, you know, there's this one enemy that's hard to beat. You can just pass it. But, like, if you beat this enemy, it's a checkpoint or something. That's kind of cool. Just some way to make it— In a way, that is the bosses, though, if you think about it. Yeah, I guess that's true. But you have to beat the boss. Right. Stage 19, it's like you— Yeah, I see what you're saying. You're kind of asking for optional save points throughout that require some sense of skill but then reward the player for doing that. It's like a risk versus reward thing. I'm only saying that to—what's the phrase I'm looking for?

28:27 To find a happy medium or split the difference between what they've given us and what I want, which is more save points. Yeah, I think you've actually struck that because that is, like, that is something I could see them actually implementing, knowing, like, how the rest of the game goes in the sense of, like, hey, you might find these things along the way, but also your game—the game is completely playable with you just never picking up a power-up, never doing— I mean, like, it's incredibly hard and stupid, but it is playable. You could theoretically just defeat the final boss by shooting your little laser at it like a thousand times.

29:01 I think that my feature—again, it's, I guess, something to make it a little easier, but also to add another layer of, like, of depth and, like, a skill ceiling. Because you were saying that there—if you touch an enemy or certain projectiles, because I guess they count as solid, you'll just die. I think, like—and it's tricky with the NES controller because there are only so many inputs, but if maybe you were able to press the shoot button and the directional button in, like, the direction of the enemy or the object,

29:37 like, you could do, like, a parry thing where it would be, like, a melee attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it would have to be, like, something that required precision so that you could just spam it. Reminds me of kind of what they did in Metroid Samus Returns for 3DS where they added melee to her arsenal so this way she can actually fight back the creatures that try to attack her. Obviously different because she's not floating through space, but, like, you know, same idea.

30:04 I'll say this. I think it would be really cool if instead of, like, having the power-ups be something you find and then, like, you know, you activate them, and once you activate them, if you want a different one, then you'll lose that other power-up. I think it would have been kind of cool to, like, spread the power-ups out a little more and then instead have the power-ups be, like, choosable through the select option.

30:27 So, like, you know, it's like once you've found, you know, and this weapon's not even in the game, but just imagine if they added more of those. It's like once you've found the ice beam, now you can freeze enemies in their tracks, you know, and it's like it doesn't kill them and they will eventually defrost, so you'll want to, you know, also shoot them with the other weapons, so it's kind of like toggling all your different weapons. I feel like that would have been a cool thing to do. Yeah, I think that would add another layer of depth to the game as well. Also, open world. Open world, yeah. 3D open world. 3D open world MMORPG. Yeah. Also, it should have a Battle Royale as well. It should be Battle Royale schmuck. Whoa, can we do that? I feel like, yeah. You need a lot of people. A lot of people. There's just got to be tons of players in there.

31:36 So, I just want to talk about the arcade differences and get your guys' reaction on this because we talked about how this was a pretty hard game and I'd like to see if you would have preferred the arcade version or said, no, they made the right changes here.

31:50 So, I'll say right off the bat, it's practically a different game. I did play the arcade one and it controls differently in the sense that A and B don't work like that. Instead, A changes your direction and B is your shoot button. So, you have to click a tire button just to change to which sides and then you shoot with a totally different button. I feel like what they did with the NES game was getting around, Sean, what you were talking about with Commando and stuff, just getting around the thing that most games at this time had a problem with was that your turning in one direction has also made you move in that direction. I feel like this arcade controller took a step towards getting around that problem but then put it back.

32:34 Here's another button that gives you the same problem. Then the arcade version came first, so it's kind of funny to think that Capcom had this eureka moment where they were like, oh, you don't need separate buttons. You can just both do the same thing. So, that's one thing that's different in the arcade version. The other is that there are five stages and five sections and then the final boss stage. So, there's only 26 stages instead of 60.

32:59 Yeah. We cool with that? I prefer a – I think that if they put more variety in those 26 levels and they kept the difficulty, you could still – it would still feel like a complete game because, again, we couldn't get to 20. Yeah, I definitely couldn't get to 26. 26. Automatic death when hit by fire. And what I want to say to that is there is no energy whatsoever. Everything is a one-hit kill. Wow. Everything. There's none of that energy meter stuff. I mean, that makes sense because of the quarter-eating element of arcades. But I definitely wouldn't want that on my NES. I feel like if you were playing this in the arcade and you picked it up on the NES, you're just going to be a monster at this game. It's like you've been swinging with three bats.

33:46 And then last, the Famicom Disk System version, the kids in Japan are laughing at us because, of course, just like every other Famicom Disk game, this bad boy can save at any section, at any moment. At any moment. Sorry. No, I don't. At any moment. Like saving of it. No, that's cheating.

34:07 No, but yes, it can save at different sections. And so there's no risk of like, oh, I got to wait until section 19. Like, right. The one thing that I will say that I prefer the NES version over the arcade version is because I did watch a little bit of the arcade version, so I couldn't get a handle on like how it felt. Okay. But I do think it has a more cohesive look to it on the NES. I was going to say that, yeah. On the arcade, it just sort of looks like a bunch of, I mean, I'm not going to say.

34:37 It's not Atari style, like 20, like those old, old arcade games. No, it's not like that, but I'm not going to say that they just used a bunch of like free assets to create everything, but it doesn't have like, it doesn't thematically look like the backgrounds and the foregrounds look like they're in the same game. Yeah, I think this is maybe our first instance of getting, and maybe it's just because it's so different, of getting a better game on the NES than in the arcade.

35:04 Yeah, I think so too. I think that, you know, even just because there's so many differences, that's why it's better, because we've seen a lot of times, even games we really like, we go and play the arcade versions of them, and we're like, oh, well, the arcade version was better. But like in this instance, I'm not totally on board for that. I know that like there's better effects, and it's got a higher pixel count than the arcade, but it just doesn't, it doesn't feel the same.

35:28 And so Section Z did kind of get like two more games, but I don't think they're on NES, and they're just kind of like, they're loosely tied together. I think it's more of just like, these two games also came from Capcom and involved those kind of same elements, and that's Sidearms and Forgotten Worlds. We'll probably never play them.

35:48 Okay. Just, you know, like if we ever get that far chronological. We have to die someday, Sean. No. All right, I think it's time for Joe to have a thought. Straight thought. And I'm really not, I've never been seriously thinking about making this a thing, but I have to talk about the pause sound, because the pause sound in this game actually is wild. Please, please describe. I can't even describe it because I can't fully, there's too many notes in it, I can't remember it. Can you play it here? I'll play it here.

36:21 That wasn't that wild. I just don't, I just. I don't remember it, so I'm going to have to now like listen to the episode and tweet my comments. I just had it, thought it was funny because I'm always like joking about the pause sound, and then I was kind of like, I kind of got to mention this pause sound. This one's like actually over the top. I think. Joe's pause sound corner. I want that to be like an article, like an updated article that you just kind of like every now and again when you notice pause sounds. I don't want to hear like every single pause sound. I just want the ones that you've like, hey, you know, I noticed this one. Yeah. Right. And that's my straight thought. Yeah. So you found yourself pausing a lot.

36:57 It was actually just when I was, when I was done, when I was about to shut it off. I like paused it and I was like, oh shit. Go pause sound. Whoa, you can pause it? I like this game now. You also, that means you also found out you can pause right then and there. That's right. I hadn't paused it before. It's like, I don't think that you can pause. I mean, every game I've tried to pause and I've been able to pause so far. Volleyball had restrictions. Oh yes, they did. Oh yeah. Timeouts. I knew somebody could save me for saying something dumb. I got your back. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So I think now we can go into the essential games list.

37:30 So last time we recorded an episode, I said I wasn't going to say, all right guys, it's time for the essential games list and I have something different prepared, but I don't. There's really like no way to like go right into it. So instead, Sean, I'd like you to get right into it with your vote.

37:45 All right. Well, I think that this is a, I enjoyed playing this game for the most part. Um, again, uh, one thing our listeners might notice is that I don't take difficulty very well, um, on first impressions. Uh, I get frustrated pretty easily. Um, but I don't think I don't, that's not a knock on the game. I think that the game is way too long for its own good. I did praise its aesthetic. Um, but I also think that a lot of the environments are kind of samey. Um, there's only so much you can do with like the three or four, I don't know, like tile sets that they were using. Um, I think that the monster design or like just the enemy design, uh, had a lot to, um,

38:36 like there's a, there was a lot like on the table there. I think they could have done with it, but it was just like turrets and a couple like spider thingies. And that was about it for me. Um, I think that they could have done a lot more to spice this game up, but it's core. It is an enjoyable game. It's not a pass. Definitely play this game, but I don't find this game essential.

38:56 Joe. I think the good things about this game, which, which maybe we didn't talk about this enough is that I think the controls, especially with the A and B are really cool and it feels really good and it feels responsive and it feels fast and you feel like a badass. Um, and that actually like made me really enjoy this game at the beginning, but it is a little too repetitive for how long it is and just long in general that after a while it gets,

39:26 it gets boring or I mean, I don't want to say boring. It gets stale. Exactly. It was never like, it was never yawning while I was playing it, but it was just like, I don't know if I, I don't know if I care enough to finish this game. One thing I would like to just jump in, uh, piggyback off you is, uh, I think the music in this game is really good, but because, and like the music also isn't just like an eight bar loop. It actually has some musical progression to it too. Um, but there are only like four songs and you're going to be hearing those four songs a lot. So in the same vein of like, for 60 levels, they could have had more than four songs.

40:01 There's good stuff, but it's too repetitive. Right. Uh, yeah, I think that was kind of, that kind of sums up my, my thoughts overall. So what's your vote? There were some cool things. Wasn't quite enough to keep me entertained. Not essential, but I'd say play it. Okay. There were entire minutes where I had fun playing this game. Uh, and I don't mean that as like a dig because there are certain NES games where I never had fun to begin with. Uh, I can list like five already and we're only on game like 50 something.

40:31 So for me, it's not that, um, it's not that this game is bad. And, uh, I agree. This game isn't boring. I think like for the right person, this could be a very, very fun game. And if you're the kind of guy who enjoys like a challenging, uh, shmup or early shmup too, like it's not, it's not the kind of shmups we think about today.

40:51 For me, they're just, there's not enough to this game. It has the 1942 problem where like, oh, this is a really cool concept. And then I've seen everything I need to see very fast. And there's no sense of like, you know, progression as a character, even like, like I said, I would have loved to have some more power ups or even like some, you know, it doesn't, not every

41:11 game has to have these RPG elements, but it certainly helps, especially when looking at through it, like today's lens, it certainly helps to make it feel like the game is growing as you play it. And with this one, I just kind of felt like, you know, if I start, if the game started mild, it pretty much went mild throughout, you know, like it didn't really pick up or, you know, or get any more exciting than the very first instant, you know, with that awesome cut scene.

41:37 So for me, not essential. I don't know if I'd say play it. I think if you're a shmup fan, play it for sure. I think this one has like a neat control concept that every shmup person should try out just because it's a different way to tackle that genre. But I don't know if I'd say play this to most people. I think this one you can pass.

41:58 All right. Cool. One last thing I want to talk about before we end this episode, though. T-shirts. What? Oh, I'm sorry. T-shirts? Just plain white T-shirts we're now selling on NostalgiaCast.com. Hanes plain white T-shirts.

42:11 We got a great deal out of the back of a van, and I just figured let's sell. No, that's not what we're talking about. I'm talking to Sean for a minute because you mentioned that you, a lot of times, you don't like very difficult games, and you think it shows on the podcast. So I'm going to ask you this question. Do you need to be good at video games to host a video game podcast?

42:33 I don't think so. Only because we've been doing it for a while, and I would consider at least you a host. Okay. And I think I've overstated that difficulty rubs me the wrong way, but when we have the volume of games, this is sort of like a behind-the-scenes thing. When we have the volume of games that we play for the show and are playing for our own enjoyment that may not have come out on the NES, it just gets frustrating when I can only get past a couple levels. I need that to color my commentary. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Joe, different question. Sure. Do you have to be good at games to review them?

43:20 I don't know if you have to be. I think you should be able to play games. You shouldn't give it to one of your parents that has to say, how do I go? You shouldn't be playing. But also, most people who are going to play the game aren't going to be amazing at the game. I mean, you want it from a perspective, I think, of someone that appreciates the game and learns it as they're playing, and maybe it gets good, maybe it doesn't. Imagine if only amazingly talented players played and reviewed Dark Souls. Like, if no one told you that it was hard.

43:54 We need a review for that game where someone just says, yeah, you know what? And I couldn't finish it, and you probably won't either. Right. You know? I mean, that's how I feel about Bloodborne. I love that game, but I still have not finished that game. Even for me, anyone that's listening and anyone in this room would kick my ass in Super Smash Brothers. I'm just terrible at Super Smash Brothers. I don't play it that often. I don't have a Nintendo system.

44:18 But I love Super Smash Brothers. I play it, and I'm like, this is fun. And I'm sure if I played it a lot, I'd be a lot better at it. But I don't play it a lot, but I can still pick it up and decide that it's a good game, even though most people are better than me at it. I think that's a great point. And what it comes down to is it's just like everybody plays games differently.

44:37 And the cool thing about that is because everybody plays the games differently, you get a hundred different perspectives. It's like, don't come to just us for Section Z thoughts. Do you know how many cool web blogs are out there writing up stuff about Section Z as well? Like, check out all these weird thoughts and then play it yourself and think about, like, what did you think? You know? Wow, this is a really pay-it-forward moment for you, Mark.

44:59 Maybe. But if you do have thoughts on the game and stuff like that, I'd love to hear them. And you can let us know at contact at nostalgiacast.com. Got a hint for you. That's also our website, nostalgiacast.com. And if you want to get a hold of us on Twitter, it's at nostalgiacast? Maybe. Uh-oh. I think we might just be at nostalgia. Try both. Type in nostalgia with the N-E-S. You're not going to get anybody else.

45:27 I didn't pay for it, but at the same time, I do have it. So there's a freebie. One thing I did pay for is the website, and that's why you should go there and just check it out and be like, wow, some guy paid money to host this kind of content. Like, get some value out of it. Like, it's just sitting there. Yep. And we don't mention who built our websites because we're not sponsored by anybody. So if you would like to know who built our website, have them sponsor us. Yeah. And we'll list their name out on the... Would you like to sponsor us? Yeah. Sponsor a dog. Why don't... You know? Like, it's... Yeah, you could do that, too. And shelters, you know? I don't need the dog food. Give that to the dog. But I will take your sponsor.

46:10 Pat. Yeah, Gary. Oh, Gary's been sending it, too? Yeah. But if you wanted to send me e-dog food, that would be contact at NostalgiaCast.com. If you wanted to find out which video games are haunted, you go to NostalgiaCast.com. And if you want to talk to me personally, I'm Michael Esposito. You can find me on at Esposito Film on Twitter. And I'll talk to you soon. Bye.