050 · RYGAR

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00:00 Rygar, you and Rygar, the legendary warrior of Argyll must defeat the evil king and his army of dangerous beasts.

00:23 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. And guys, today we are talking about Rygar. Rygar. Yeah, it's almost like it sounds like a place.

00:41 It does. I didn't realize that the hero was Rygar. I guess the places are ghoul. I was thinking more like a Reptar sort of thing. Oh, okay. It's almost like the way the Rugrats pronounce Reptar. They're like, Rygar. I haven't seen it in a long time. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm not so sure about that. They say Reptar or something. You know, Reptar was on ice, why wasn't Rygar? That's true. There should have been ice levels. I think there was ice. Wasn't there ice? No ice.

01:06 No ice? No ice. Oh, no. I meant like an actual musical. Oh, like a musical. Like a stage performance thing that we could see. But no, I don't even remember any ice in the game. Maybe there wasn't. Maybe I'm thinking of something else. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Hockey maybe. We need to talk about Rygar. All right? We got to talk about what this game is. So who is Rygar? Rygar is, well... Or what is Rygar? Yeah, are you going to get philosophical with me here? Like, who is Rygar?

01:28 Essentially, this is like a... Is Rygar a person, a concept? Yeah, he's a person. Okay. And this is like, I guess I would, you know, open world sounds silly here, but that is the idea essentially. It is. It's like an open world RPG where you play as the main character, Rygar, and you kind of have to trek through the world of Argyll and find the five items that the gods are demanding of you. And you have this, like, spinning disc.

01:56 Think of it like a yo-yo. I think that's probably the best way to describe it to the viewers. Because it always comes right back to you. It's actually pretty short, all things considered. Honestly, the weapon on the chain gave me a little bit of a God of War feel. Okay, yeah, yeah. So, like, think of you as Kratos, except for now you're in the mystical world of Argyll, and essentially there's this evil guy, if you can believe it, called Ligar.

02:18 Ligar with an L. Yeah. And Ligar has, like, you know, brought terror to the world, and now it's up to you to collect those five items that we mentioned earlier and, you know, restore peace. So, Joe, how are you going to go about doing that? So, let me give you what I first thought this game was. When you first start this game, it looks like it's just a 2D side-scroller. I immediately got, like, Russian attack vibes. Yeah? Yeah. A bit.

02:42 Yeah. Well, obviously not the weapon, but, you know, like, just that style of game. Yeah. And at first I was like, yeah, this seems okay. It was like, the level was a little confusing at the very first level. But once you find the way out of that level, you're on an open-world map. And it's completely unexpected. Yeah. I had no idea the first time that I tried this. But then if you look in the manual, you can see the map and stuff.

03:04 You actually have, like, a pretty good indication of, like, okay, I have to find this place first. And you go from each location on the map is its own, usually side-scrolling level, with its own enemies, its own boss and everything. So it really kind of feels like a bit of an adventure to find these items you need to eventually defeat Ligar. Yeah. And there's definitely exploration in there. Sean, were you a fan of the exploration aspect?

03:29 I was a fan. This game, while it's a little generic in its fantasy setting, I would say, I'd say that it does a really good job of giving you a sense of place. Because it really does feel like everywhere that you're going is sort of geographically a unit.

03:48 So between the... So all the regular stages are side-scrolling. And then when you open up a certain door, you end up on... In, like, a top-down, almost Zelda-like plane. Yeah. And even the way that you move from screen to screen is very Zelda-like. Although I did notice that the screen scrolls with you for a while. Yeah, yeah. Before you move to the next screen. They're bigger blocks, I guess.

04:15 But, yeah, I like the way that it sort of all feels like it's its own little world. So, you know, if I can break the walls here for a second and just ask, like, in terms of your guys' exploration of this world, how did you go about finding things? Was it truly just, like, poking through everything you could do? Did you look through the manual?

04:36 Did you go online? I used the map in the manual. Okay. There's a map in the manual. I used it a lot. But I will say that I liked the exploration enough that by the end of this game, it kind of felt like I didn't need the map anymore. Like, I remember where things were. Like, the overworld map was built in a way where it felt like you remember it. Like, they felt like places I knew by the end of it, which I thought that was a really cool, you know. And it's also not a huge game. So there's only, you know, what, six?

05:05 Six different, like, main locations? Well, there's, yeah. There's five dungeons, I think. Okay. Yep. Sean, how did you tackle the exploration part of it? I started out just by dicking around, going in different directions, seeing what kind of dead ends I'd run into. And once I sort of felt like I'm getting nowhere like this, I did look into the manual and see that I was supposed to go to one place almost immediately.

05:33 And so I went and did that and then sort of continued to blindly move forward. And I did make some progress that way. But I would say that it definitely has a lot of, like, features that you can use as landmarks. But I think, by and large, the, like, the hub area is a little too samey everywhere for it to be, like, perfect for me to just learn it. Yeah, if you don't see that map in the manual, if you don't see that, because that does give you, like, a pretty good scope of, like, where you are. But if you don't see that, you can get lost in here pretty fast. Sure. And also there's no, without seeing that map in the manual, there's no indication that, like, maybe there's an island I should go to.

06:17 Or maybe there are things on the edge of the coast. But I'll offer that I didn't look at anything before getting to the overworld. And I just kind of did the exploration.

06:27 And I immediately was able to find the grappling hook, which was kind of interesting that, like, it was intuitive enough that the first item you're required to get to continue on with the dungeons was the very first thing I was able to get. That was like you just felt like you were supposed to go that way. Okay. Which is interesting. My first run, so they're all sort of situated in a way, I guess, that you would find the grappling hook first. But I ended up almost getting up to the clouds before I even got the grappling hook. Oh, yes. Yeah. Where they tell you about the city in the sky.

07:04 Yeah. I went and I saw, like, you want to go there. And I was like, oh, no, I don't have anything yet. Yeah. Right, right. Right. And it's really cool because that's another, like, thing that they've placed in the game here, you know, level design, where they're like, okay, this is a good point to tell people, like, hey, just so you know, you should have collected a grappling hook by now.

07:22 Right. And even though you can't do anything with it yet for that particular thing, it's just like a way to remind you of, like, hey, look for that grappling hook. And that's the other part of what informed me on where to go. I would look in the manual to see where, you know, where the place with the grappling hook is because somebody in the game told me I need the grappling hook to go any further.

07:41 So I thought it was, granted, I did have to go back to the manual to find the map. I thought it did a good job of in-game giving you, like, your objective, like, you have to talk to people and you have to, well, those people, those bald guys. Right. The same people you saw everywhere. Yeah. They're, like, they're called legendaries or something like that. Yeah. In the manual, it refers to them as, like, go to meet the legendary.

08:02 But then some of them are called Indoras. But not all of them. Yes, the Indoras give you the items. Give you the items. Yeah, they're the five. Yep, exactly. Basically, what we're talking about is you'll happen upon these doors, whether you're in one of the side-scrolling levels or in the overworld, like, top-down one. And you'll be on, like, a pedestal. No, no, you'll be on this little platform. And you'll see this giant bald, not bald. Yeah, he's bald. He's bald and bearded. And buff. The three Bs.

08:34 The three Bs of being a guy. Yeah. Just sitting on this pedestal. And then you'll get a nice little box of text saying either some obscure hint or saying, like, hey, why don't you rest here for a while? Or my favorite one of them says, if you see Durago, ask him to release my daughter.

08:55 He just says that. He's telling everyone, like, hey, if you see Durago, tell him to release my daughter. There's a few like that, though. There's another guy that's like, fight, fight, fight. I'm like, is he just egging me on? Like, you know, I didn't know what was happening because usually, to Sean's point, they're inspired, you know? Like, they're trying to be, like, enlightened people who know, like, who know this great riddle that they're asking you to solve. Well, but I'll offer that, like, you know, the riddles aren't necessarily, like, that complicated.

09:22 And most of the time, it's more just, like, poking you about doing something. Like, hey, you got that crossbow, right? Because otherwise, you better leave this state. Yeah. Or it would be like, oh, you can get this item by going to the northwest. And I was like, what are they talking about? Until I found the overworld map. And I was like, oh, there's a north. Right, right, right. Yeah, I think it's funny, actually.

09:44 If you don't look at the manual and you don't know enough about this game and you just go into this game and you're on that side-scrolling level, I think we should just talk about that first. Like, your experience. What is it? It's like a mountain. It's called the Grand Mountain. Not Grand. Grand. Like, we're going to Grand's house. Yes. A thing I say every weekend.

10:05 Yeah. So, you're on this mountain and, you know, it's just kind of, it's like a training wheels kind of thing. Yeah. You learn a lot of things about the game this way. Like, annoying things, you know, enemies will respawn whenever, wherever, however they want. But I think that that is necessary. I love that the enemies respawn. But we'll save that. We'll get into that. Yeah, we'll get into that.

10:28 But I think, like, for me, I'm going to say why that's annoying, though, because, first off, it's like, there's not, you know, there's a thought to level design in certain games where, you know, the enemies are carefully placed throughout. And in this one, you know, enemies would appear right behind me. They would just spawn, like, immediately behind me. I'm okay with enemies spawning, like, into the area that you're currently in or spawning in, like, places that would make sense, like a regeneration spot. If we talk about, like, Kid Icarus with those pots that the worm guys would fall out of. Like, that makes sense. These worms are always going to spawn out of there.

11:04 These giant red scorpion things would just appear behind my back. I'd be like, how did I not see that? Yeah, they do appear close. But I do think that this game has a very quick, not that it's an excuse for it, but it has a very quick reaction time. Like, you can turn and hit almost, like, in a frame. Yeah, they've got very tight controls. But, like, in terms of that, like, what is our main, like, source of interacting with the world? It's just jumping and using your whirly gig, right?

11:34 So, you only have that one weapon. And it's interesting because with a game, the main, like, calling card for this game, I think, is the fact that you have these power-ups that are permanent. But they're mostly all just for, like, getting around. Yeah, the items are all exploration-based, if you think about it. You have the grappling hook, which will allow you to climb up and down different areas. Usually an area or something is locked behind an item, for the most part. Yeah, in some ways, that's like a Metroid element thing, you know, where it's like... Before Metroid, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, both these things, yeah, it's funny. We're talking about Zelda and Metroid, but this game comes before both of those.

12:17 And, you know, so you have the grappling hook, which will help you get out of those situations. You have the crossbow, which doesn't work anything like how I thought it would work. Yeah. I actually thought the crossbow was gonna be a weapon. Right. Because one of the gods mentions it. And then I'm like, oh, cool, so there is another weapon in this game. And then it's like, no, you'll actually just use that to create a zip line between two points. Yeah, you shoot a rope. And I think that that's really a missed opportunity, because the basic gameplay loop is pretty basic. I mean, I just said that, but you are really just using your armor yo-yo to hit things, and you get different ways to unlock certain doors, pretty much.

12:57 And I think if they're gonna have these power-ups, I would hope that there would be a new way to fight, like a crossbow or some more interesting melee weapon. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, and I think that, you know, that ties into the biggest thing about this game that we haven't talked about yet, which is the, you know, the progression system for your character. There is, you know, a strength and defense. It's called Tone and Last. Yeah. And that's a stat that upgrades throughout the entirety of the game by killing enemies, different enemies. Some enemies will give you Tone, some enemies will give you Last.

13:30 And, you know, you're powering up as a person, and the only way that you really see that progression is by doing, you know, by taking less hits on an enemy. Right. Well, also, usually take four, could maybe be killed in one if you're strong enough. Yeah. Right. And as for the last, though, you can see that because you get more health. Right, right, right. And they, I didn't realize until after I played it that certain enemies give you Tone and certain enemies give you Last. Yeah. So I was thinking I was getting, when I was getting more health, I was like, I'm also getting more power.

13:59 Oh, interesting. Yeah. But I guess that's not the case. It's not the case because I'm pretty sure that would have broke the game, if you think about it. If, like, you were just constantly leveling up both. Yeah. I mean, that's... I just thought maybe it wasn't... Not to say this game isn't already a little broken. It's a little, I think it's got some jank to it. All right. Yeah. There are things, certain things. I think the biggest thing for me is that you can despawn enemies by walking away. Yes, exactly. Yeah. But I don't think that was enough.

14:25 The enemies are so frequent that it's, to me, like, the levels were still relatively challenging, even with the ability to despawn the enemies. Okay, but the despawn of the enemies, though, that comes from, like, that is a memory glitch. Like, that is, like... Yeah. You know, I don't know how they would have avoided that since they wanted them to be, like,

14:44 you know, planned encounters in a game that's filled with random encounters for those enemies that you can specifically, like, despawn. But essentially, it's like, you're getting close enough to the edge where they're no longer seen. Yeah. That, like, if you went back any further than that, they would come back into that same place. But if you just manage to clip them off the edge, the way that the memory works on the NES is kind of like the very first,

15:07 if we imagine them as, like, vertical frames, the very first vertical frame and the last vertical frame on your TV are kind of like the same memory. So it's knowing that, like, hey, there's nothing on this side, so there shouldn't be anything on that side. Yeah, it's like the game... And that's a very basic explanation. Like, that's not the truth, but that's the way that'll help us explain this. I think a more layman's way is this game just lacks object permanence.

15:32 Like, as soon as it exits the screen, it no longer exists. Right. And even weirder about that, though, is that, like, that's what makes the random encounters necessary in the game because you have to grind, you know, to get through these, you know, to level up and power up and be able to be strong enough to defeat the bosses.

15:52 But the way that the random encounter in this game is handled is it becomes a little bit of a mess. Yeah. And it's easily exploited. Yeah. Very easily exploited. Yeah, it's easy to grind. But I don't know. It didn't bother me too much the way that they spawned close to you. I felt like when they were spawning close to me, I kind of felt like it gave you the opportunity to feel kind of badass. You're like, because you have to move so fast. And, yeah, I mean, you got hit sometimes, too. I'm not even talking about the problem with, like, I'm getting hit very often. And that is a problem because, you know, HP in this game isn't something that you necessarily have access to at any given time.

16:28 You mean, like, health power-ups or anything like that? Yeah, or even just, yeah, like the ability to recover your health. Yeah, recover. It's only done through spells, which we'll cover in a minute. But other than that, you have to hope for a drop of a potion, which is only going to restore one health point. Yeah. So if you think about how long it takes you to get one of those, how many random encounters you'll experience, and how many enemies might get in the way to the point where you just don't have a way to get through all of them, you'll take the hit and be worse off because of it. I feel like I had a different experience.

16:59 Okay. Let's hear it. Yeah. I also think I did a lot more fighting. And we were talking about this just before we started recording, that I must have grinded a lot more at the beginning because it was taking me fewer hits to kill some things that I was watching you fight that was taking you more hits. Right. So I was probably already, like, a little more leveled up.

17:18 So that might have made it easier. But I felt like the health potions were dropped enough to at least keep me consistent at a health level. Like, if suddenly I'm like, oh, I'm low at health, I would just stand in one spot where I knew some, like, basic, like, some nothing crazy, like, some basic enemies would show up, and I'd be able to hit them enough to get a few health potions back. Okay. But also when you – I know we didn't cover this yet, but when you hit them enough, you get these other points. What are they called again?

17:48 The point that you spend. I call them stars points. But, yeah, I think their stones is probably the right way to go. So there's these stars that allow you to spend points on three different things. One of them is – Well, they're your spells. Right. Those are spells that you specifically cast as Rhaegar. And one of your spells is regain all of your health. And I used to – I used to – I would save all of my star points up for the health thing. So I would always in my back pocket have, like, restore all my health to kind of get me out of a sticky situation. So what are the other spells?

18:21 There's power-up, which is really weird because you cast it once, and it's good for the entire game. Oh. The entire game. Unless you die. But, like, it's something that you would get back pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah. It costs the least amount of points. I think it's – I think it uses three points. And they're called mind points. That's what it is. It's the – you know, like – Mind. It says mind, and then you have, like, a meter. It only costs three points to cast this power-up spell, and then you're immediately stronger.

18:52 Your yo-yo thing goes out faster. I don't think it makes you stronger. I thought it just made your thing – your weapon longer. It says here that – oh, yeah, yeah. Allows the grappling – this is in the manual. Allows the grappling hook weapon to be stretched. So, yeah. Right. Okay. It's a grappling hook? It says grappling hook, but – Interesting. Yeah, that's why when I first read that, I was like, oh, I don't need that. I thought it was talking about the grappling hook. Right, which can extend to infinity. Yeah. You have the world's longest grappling hook.

19:22 But – and then you have attack and assail, which I actually thought at first – I was like, oh, this is kind of silly. But man, does it pay off in those boss fights because it's almost like a lightning strike for, like, ten attacks. But it's only your very first ten attacks, so you can't use it and then say, like, oh, I'm going to save this for later because you have to use it right away. But it attacks everything on the screen. Every time you use your thing. Every time, yeah. Every time you use a thing, regardless of if your weapon makes contact or not, it just destroys the things on the screen. Wow. I think it's also useful if you're in a spot with particularly hard enemies that keep spawning.

20:01 Right, exactly. And you need to get out of a jam. You need to get moving. But still, I was – I felt like – I felt more comfortable saving all those points for recover because then I could always get myself out of a jam. I think, yeah, I think recover is money too. It's a good strategy. Yeah. Recover is good because you would save that until you're at your very end of your life because it's always going to restore all of your points.

20:25 You know, something that isn't necessary when you only have four health points, but by the end of the game when you have 12, I could see some use in that. Got some value to it. Yeah. Right. All right. So, Joe, this is a section I know you've been dying to talk about. In the manual, they refer to the enemies as – They refer to them as – instead of monsters or enemies – Bestiary. Yeah. They say this is our list of animalized men wriggling eerily. So poetic. It's beautiful in a way. We're fighting. We're fighting animalized men wriggling eerily. I didn't think there was any eerie wriggling going on. It really is a beautiful sentence.

21:06 Yeah. And I guess I could – I didn't really think about it, but maybe these guys are like humans who have been transformed into those animals. I mean, Ligar has created like hell on earth. And to be honest, this place doesn't look that bad. I mean, I'm watching some footage right now, and I definitely just saw like a scary tree. But like I don't think that was a dude. I think that was just a tree. But don't you think this is the world that Rigar has like just always lived in?

21:28 Like it doesn't look like there was ever a civilization here, period. That is something I wanted to – okay, so I'm sorry to get away from the monsters, but that is something that I wanted to address. Like this is apparently like a kingdom or a place that used to have some civilization. And aside from the gates, like there's no buildings. There's nothing – there's no infrastructure.

21:51 Except for some zip lines and some gates, there's no proof of human existence on this island. Rigar did that. Rigar did all that. Rigar did all of this. I'd have to – I just want to know like even what's Rigar's like backstory? Like why is he the guy? I think he was dead. Yeah, he was resurrected to fight Rigar because you need a rhyming person to fight a bad guy. It's one of those – the five legendaries rules. Yeah, it needs the rhyme. Yeah, that's the game story for you. Once there was a holy place called Argyll, which was founded by five legendary Indora gods, and then suddenly the blackest tragedy happened. That's – you know, it's the most dramatic manual I've read to date.

22:31 But yeah, I guess my experience with this manual is strange because like I checked it out after you told me about animalized men wriggling ear. I was like, I have to check this out. Then I found a bunch of cool tips that I would have never found out. And then I realized like if you don't have the internet, if it's 1987, like you can't buy a used copy of this game. You need the manual to do anything. Don't lose the manual. Well, you could have bought the NES – isn't there like a –

23:01 The Nintendo Player's Guide. Yes. Or you could have called that hotline. Nintendo have a hotline. Yeah, Nintendo did have – the Nintendo Power had a hotline. And even Toys R Us had a hotline actually. You could call them just Toys R Us. And I guess they had someone who was just a resident expert of playing games.

23:17 There's another thing though with manuals since we're on that topic. I don't know if it's going to happen in any NES games. But one thing that they used to do is like a form of DRM would be like in your manual. Oh, yeah. You know, it would have like a specific code for you like on those old DOS games.

23:34 You know, and it would be like you have to type this into the computer. And that was like their serial key, if you will. But also to prove that you didn't like give it to your friend, you know, and you'd have to do everything if you wanted to do it that way. I guess like it's not the exact same thing and I don't want to get too off topic. But the example for that that I always think back to is for Metal Gear Solid 1, you have – the character, I think it's Otacon, tells you – no, no, no. It's the kernel, tells you to look at the back of the CD to get like the frequency for somebody you're supposed to call on your radio.

24:10 And it only exists on the back of your box. So thank goodness we have game FAQs like today to help us out there. But honestly, like things like that, interesting, right? Because it is like a cool way to involve you directly into the story. But at the same time, you're like, you know, I don't want to take my CD out right now and look at that thing. Like I don't need that. And it's like sooner or later all CDs and all physical media will just be gone anyway. Not because of an impending apocalypse that we keep talking about every episode. No, it might happen though. No, I know. But also just like – Don't lie to our audience like that. CDs are in retrograde. Just like Mercury. Everything's going to hell.

24:52 Let's get back to the game. What are we talking about? But if there is an apocalypse, we have a vault full of cassette tapes for the next few episodes of Nostalgia that you can uncover.

25:01 Absolutely. I think that's a good time for it. If some legendary warrior wants to uncover the Nostalgia backlog. Anyway, what's up, Mike? I was going to say it's a good time for a break. Okay. And you know, it's funny. We were talking earlier about the progression system. And I, you know, again, because I'm not checking this manual religiously, I didn't know about this actually. I wasn't like – I wasn't aware that I was getting stronger because it doesn't necessarily feel like it. Yeah. And so I didn't know about this progression thing until I got to the first boss in the game.

25:59 And I remember texting you, Joe, and being like, what do I do? Like, what's the secret? Because I knew you were into the game and you probably got him further than that. And I was like, I just don't get it. Because I was doing like 100 hits to the boss. Yeah, the first boss is the one that just shoots up the three fireballs. The three fireballs. Yeah.

26:18 It's ridiculous. Like, if you don't grind – And you have to grind a lot. Because I – even after that, I was like, oh, okay, grinding's the secret apparently. Didn't know there was progression in this game. But sure, let's go with it.

26:29 Grinding's the secret. I must have grinded for like 20 minutes and it still wasn't enough to do like – you know, it still took like 60 shots to knock him out. See, this was also before I realized that grinding was doing anything. But other than giving me health. And I knew my health was increasing. So I was – you know, I guess I was grinding on that first level just while I was playing but not realizing that's what I was doing. But when I got to it, I was having a lot of trouble with it because there's not a lot of space to weave between those three fireballs that's shooting at you.

26:59 But eventually my strategy was just I got enough points to have a recover available. And I just would jump in there, take as many hits as I could while hitting them as many times as I possibly could. Once my health was low, recover, do it again. And not even on the second time, it just killed them. Joe, we're playing two different games.

27:20 I did that. And I even had our audio producer, Chris, watch me do it again today. And it still just wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for the – what's his name? Aruga the first one? It just wasn't enough for Aruga. Aruga. E-R-U-G-A. I got words for Aruga, okay? Who is also just like another generic two-headed dog thing. Like that's a thing. I thought he was more of like a turtle.

27:46 Is he not a – All right, turtle. Sure, whatever. But like I see multiple heads on an animal and I'm like, that's a dog. Well, about the enemy design and bosses, like I think the enemy design in general is pretty good. Like there's some cool variety in what you're going to be fighting. But the bosses are really underwhelming. That's what I thought too. Yeah. I thought they were relatively easy. I mean, yeah, they're not complicated.

28:12 And aside from just the fact that if you're too weak, you have to brute force them. They're not scary. Yeah, the only thing they've really done to the bosses is just add a ton of HP to them. Yeah. Because if you think about it, some of the – like who are those robots that show up? Oh, yeah. The robots – I think it's just Mr. Robot. We're my second least favorite. Those robots that just show up though, first off, that's random. And another like, you know, I'm curious about the lore here. Like, you know, they're not going to give me anything, but I'd love to know. I've never seen any technology in this game.

28:43 Ligar actually comes from the future to go through the past and then – Well, I had assumed though – because I called those robots in my notes too, but I assumed that I was just seeing them as robots and they were meant to be something else. Are they robots? If you look in the manual, in the Wiggling Beasts and Where to Find Them – Wiggling Beasts and Where to Find Them. They are called – there's something robotic. Super Robot Bargain. Oh, it's a bargain. No, no, no. But it's like B-A-R-G-A-N. So it's like Bargan. Like, or Bargon. But no, it's not an O, so it can't be Bargon, but Bargan.

29:16 Bargan. Yeah, and it was designed for the purpose of having command of the sky of Lapis and is capable of discharging deadly electromagnetic superwaves. I definitely felt those. I think he's harder than some of the bosses, I guess is what I'm getting at. And also more interesting. It's like, oh, here's this crazy robot. Different mechanic. And then you go to the boss and it's like, oh, it's a spider.

29:37 Well, I also thought another enemy that was at least more annoying than the bosses are those weird three-piece dragon things that, like, they fly around. Okay, well, they're not three-pieces, Joe. Are they wearing a three-piece suit? No, look at them. There's three, like – they're almost like a caterpillar. They have, like, three sections of their body in, like, a staircase. You mean the shoulders, the stomach, and the butt?

29:59 That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing, like – All right. Listeners, look up a picture of them. You'll see what I mean. And the shoulders, the stomach, and the butt are very separated. All you've done to explain them are three-piece dragon. They can't look up three-piece dragon. These guys are – You can look up the manual. They're called, like, Ep-O-Con. Ep-E-P-O-Con. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. You have to say it just like that because you, too, will be confused about how to pronounce things that have O and I right next to each other. Oi. Ep-O-A-Con?

30:30 Oh, okay. Thank you, listener. Ep-O-A-Con. I don't know. It's a flying dragon which has been living in a primeval mountain. He will attack Rygar by dropping eggs of a snow-gruce. Didn't know there were snow-gruce eggs. Didn't know that there was a living creature in those eggs. Yeah, snow-gruces are off-camera.

30:46 Those things – They're very big compared to, like, a lot of the enemies, and they – it doesn't seem to stop them from spawning, like, several of them on the screen. Yeah. It just takes up, like, half the screen. That's one of my random encounter arguments, Joe, is that, like, you see, like, three of those guys spawned on the screen at different heights, too. So you've got, like, the guy really low, and then the guy really high, so it's like, well, I can't jump or anything. And then the guy who's really low gets to a point where, like, even if you duck, he's just going to drop that egg right on your head. Right. Like, good luck. My strategy with M2 is take it slow. As soon as I see one, kill it immediately. Don't go further and allow more to spawn.

31:20 This game – this whole game is take it slow to the game because you might as well just continue to let creatures respawn to kill them anyway. So there's no reason to rush through a stage because ultimately that's just going to leave you really frustrated with a boss. Yeah. I feel like you guys are very negative on the grinding, which I get. But to me, it was – I don't know. It was just – it was satisfying to kill a bunch of enemies.

31:46 Like, I didn't notice it as much. Well, here's another thing about the grinding. And maybe there have been some games released on the PC during this time that it had that as a concept. But I – is this the first grinding game that – I mean, it's definitely the first grinding game that we've played. I think it is. Yeah. It's the first grinding game that we've played on the NES. Yeah. And I think what's interesting is, like, I'm not saying that the grinding itself is bad. Right. I'm not saying that the progression is bad. It's a mix of my argument that the random encounters aren't handled properly and Sean's argument that, like, the basic line of combat isn't enough to keep your attention.

32:25 You know? Grinding in Final Fantasy is interesting because you continue to, like, think about new ways to use your squad. Like, you know, am I going to attack these guys with magic or, you know, my raw power? Or am I going to use this sword instead of that wand? Like, you know, there's things to think about there. Whereas here, it's really just like, all right, I'm going to wait for the dragon to come to my level. And then I'm going to hit him twice. And then sooner or later, I'll be able to hit him once. One thing I do want to clarify for the listener that may not have played this game, because random encounter is more of an RPG, like, turn-based battle sort of word.

33:04 But he just means that instead of enemies that are clearly placed by the level designer, they just, it's almost sort of kung fu style, where they just sort of show up off screen and it doesn't matter if you killed them, there will be more. Or in the middle of your screen. Or in the middle of your screen, yeah. It's almost like if the Goombas from Zumaire Brothers, because that's like, you know, that's the similar side-scrolling title. Or like, let's just say, like, Red Devils from Ghosts and Goblins. If they just showed up wherever, you know, instead of in those carefully placed spots. Yeah. I mean, they definitely come at a specific spot. They always come at the same spot.

33:43 But it's not... It's not handcrafted. It's not fixed. Yeah. But it will always be like, when you come to this screen, you'll find two of these red devil-looking things and one of these things. And then, like, they'll keep coming. Yes. But I also... I guess now that I think about it, I noticed some variation in that, actually. In the first level, everything keeps coming. But in some levels, you kill something, and then it's gone until you leave the screen.

34:06 Or you can kind of wiggle around in the screen to force things, too. Like, you'll have to actually move the screen. Like, you'll have to move enough in the level for the screen to shake a little bit. Right. But if the screen starts shaking, new enemies will spawn. Right. I guess I'm just thinking of some of, like, the vertical areas where the screen doesn't move. You know, that's, for me, that's combat. But how did we feel about controls in the game? So, I think that... I think they're pretty tight in the side-scrolling levels.

34:36 But when it comes to the top-down view, I just find it very strange that they... Like, you can only move in four directions. You can go left, right, up, and down if you're just walking around. You have to jump if you want to do any sort of, like, diagonal movement. And I don't understand, like, if they allow you to move diagonally while you're jumping, why can't you do that while you're walking? Yeah, I never thought of that, actually. It's a very... It just feels sticky. Like, every time you land, you're just in, like, mud or something.

35:08 It's probably because they didn't, you know, like, they didn't have the animation required to... Well, they don't have to. If you jump and you go diagonally... No, and it looks silly. You look like you're just jumping forward but moving diagonally. How would you look like you were walking forward but still moving diagonally? Is that how you would look? You know, though, I think... I mean, I think even as late as Chrono Trigger, I think if you move diagonally in Chrono Trigger, you don't turn diagonally. You're still facing... I think it would work fine. I don't think it would break my immersion.

35:37 I just found it very annoying. Well, yeah, exactly. With the limited things that are going on in this game anyway, I don't think it's going to break my immersion if he starts moving that way. That didn't bother me, though. I didn't mind hopping around because it's a good way to dodge everything. No, it is. You can be in the middle of jumping around and projectiles can come at you, enemies can come at you, and as long as you're in the air, they can't affect you. But if you throw your weapon, it will attack them.

36:05 Yeah, and that was one of my bigger complaints. I did exploit it a little bit, but the game doesn't understand its own depth when you're on an overworld map, a top-down view. You can jump, and for the perspective, yeah, you're going higher up on the screen, but the game assumes that you're there. Yeah, you're still... I don't know if I'm explaining that properly. You're still on the same XY axis thing. I'm jumping up, and I'm hitting an enemy that's behind me because the game thinks I'm back there because I jumped. Reminds me of when we were talking about 1942 and how every plane is on the same exact part of the C axis. Until you looped a loop.

36:42 Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I felt pretty good about the controls. I mean, I'll agree with you there, Joe, that it is a tight attack, and I didn't feel like it wasn't responsive. Like, oh, it just didn't get out quick enough, or oh, I couldn't turn fast enough. Like, I think those things are appropriately animated. And I think that it has some good game feel when, because it does incorporate a stun and a little bit of knockback on your enemy,

37:09 like, it does feel punchy when you do hit them. You do feel like it wasn't just, oh, it registered a hit. It was actually like, oh, I definitely got this guy. And I'll also applaud them for, like, the unique way that they handled, like, all those additional items without having to, like, go to a menu and select them. It's just, like, you know, find the part where it's needed, and then, you know, like.

37:31 Contextual. Yeah, contextual. Like, hit the up arrow and your attack button, and because you're near this spot, now it'll form a zip line. Or hit down and your attack button, and if there is ground below you, it will know to use the grappling hook to go lower. Thought that was cool. Mm-hmm. The items in general, though, I, you know, I'm echoing the statement from earlier, but I do wish that they would have been able to be used in a combat situation as well.

37:58 Exactly. Because even the grappling hook, you know, like, think about how cool that would be if all of a sudden you're able to, like, grapple enemies, bring them towards you, and then hit them with the whip. That or. The whip. Yeah, the whip from Pennsylvania. The yo-yo. Um, because of the way that the grappling hook works in the game, there's no reason why it couldn't have been registered as a weapon if you hit somebody above you. Because it does, like, look like a projectile that you're shooting.

38:25 Yeah, it won't even grab those mind stones. Yeah. Uh, or potions or anything. It won't grab anything that isn't, um, you know, like, like, other than a piece of land. Yeah. Missed opportunities. Yeah. And so now that, since we're talking about items and the exploration again anyway, let's talk about backtracking. Uh, because it's weird. At first this was, like, a problem for me. Then I was like, well, it's not really that big of a deal. Like, how else would you handle it? The levels aren't huge.

38:53 So when you have to, because first you do have to backtrack a little bit on the overall map, but you also have to go back into full levels that you've been to now that you have the grappling hook or now that you have, you know, whatever, the crossbow. And I think I'm a bigger fan of backtracking in the levels because that's, like, a cool, like, neat way to go back to those levels that you've already been in. Like, imagine if you had to go back to World 1-2 and Super Mario Brothers because you just got this new thing and you gotta do it there, you know? That's cool. I don't think backtracking in the overall was necessary, and I almost kind of wish, like, after you beat the boss, you just started back at, like, you know, outside the Grand Mountain.

39:28 I don't know. I sort of like the, it establishes a sense of place. Yeah. I mean, backtracking is sort of like a new concept right now, and I don't know. I think that it's needed to give you the visual memory of where you are and where you've been. And also, if you're going to backtrack to those levels, then the feeling of going back on the map to get physically to where that level is kind of puts the cherry on it, you know? It makes it feel complete. Yeah. Like, really backtracking fully. You've got that anticipation.

40:01 But, yeah, it was also just cool to me that, I mean, I guess that is like a Metroid thing, but you unlock an item and you go back and you're like, oh, wait, wasn't there a, you know, there was a post here that I could shoot a grappling hook or whatever. Yeah, and you can imagine if you're into the game enough, you could have your notebook and be taking notes on like, oh, cool, this guy told me I need the crossbow for here, so I'll make a note of that. Right. And then this way I can check it later and be like, oh, yeah, now I got the crossbow, let me go back and see what was there.

40:28 You know, I think the game could have even went further with this idea and even just like cool like secret areas or, you know, like new ways to get to different parts of the overworld. Right. Like, you know, imagine if there was like a cave that connected the east and west sides. Oh, yeah, yeah, like passageways and things like that. Yeah, but you could only access it after a certain point in the game. That would have been neat. Now that you're saying that too, I think that that is one thing that, granted, it's the first game to do stuff like this that I know of or that we've played. That we've played. It's definitely been done at this point, I want to stress that. And like Legend of Zelda has come out in Japan.

41:06 But like, but like, you know, for the North American player, this is the first time you're experiencing something. But yeah, I do think it could have benefited from more of that stuff on the world map to more than just your destinations on the map. Yeah. I mean, right now, this whole gathering items that give you access to things that you couldn't before, they're acting as just keys. Like they may as well have just said, here's the blue key. You can use it on blue doors. Sure. But it is more fun to see like, oh, I'm creating a grappling line with this one. In the context of the game, it feels better. But I think that if they're going to introduce a new feature, it better have more than one use.

41:45 Like that's just inefficient game design to me. Yeah, but most of them have, I mean, most, yeah, you do the same thing with it. But most of them have several times, like the grappling hook, you use that several different places. The grappling hook, I think, is the best example. I think the worst example is just like the crossbow. Like you will see just these lone yellow blocks that, like, oh, I guess I'm using the grappling hook. I thought they were like wooden stump. Whatever, wooden stump. I know. Yeah. But it's not like, oh, I can use my crossbow to trigger this other thing that has a completely different context in the game.

42:20 Yeah, I get it. I understand what you're saying. I totally agree. I do like that they have implementation both in the overworld and in the levels themselves for the most part. Yeah. But, like, it doesn't change the fact that, like, you know, even though these are missed opportunities, I get it, Joe. You're saying this. Well, this is the first time, right? There's still problems, right? Yeah. Can you agree on that? But, yeah, there are definitely problems. No, no, I'm saying that that's still a problem even if it's the first time.

42:45 I'm surprised that you said crossbow was the worst because I thought that was also very – it was cool to, like, be in a level and be like, what is this wooden stump? And then later on be like, oh, where was that wooden – like, I go back and do – like, I still see that in game design today. Like, just, like, there's things that you don't know what it is and then later on you realize, oh, this unlocks these and you go back to those levels to find those things. I like that one. I mean, like, between the – what do you call it when there's already a zipline?

43:09 The item that you get so you can use it. Oh, yeah. I actually don't know what that's called. Whatever that is and the crossbow are almost, like, redundant. Like, you could have just had that be one item that you created your own for the whole thing. Sure. I mean, it just – it felt like they were – like, they were – They're stretching it. Yeah, I see that. It is weird that, like, one acts as a zipline and the other one's like, now create your own lines. And it's like, but only in these specific spots that look exactly like the zipline one.

43:42 Thank you. All right, so that was backtracking somehow. We didn't even know how to give an items thing. Let's talk level variety. Yeah. Yeah, I thought there was a decent amount of variety between the levels for the most part. You would get different enemies and stuff like that. But then there was one point where suddenly one of the levels is an overhead. It's like the overworld map. You're in a dungeon.

44:41 I think it's cool that they had that level variety. I don't know if the two overworld levels were executed as well as the side-scrolling levels. But I just thought it was interesting. It was kind of nice to break it up. But there was a lot of, especially in the first level, which was... The game works better as a side-scrolling game. It does. Yeah, absolutely. I think it was Durago is the name of the place. Oh, the island... Yes. That you have to get to. Yeah, so the northwest there. There was a lot of...

45:12 You're on this cobblestone floor, and there's just a lot of repeating empty... There's nothing in the space. Every screen is just more floor. Yeah. And that felt a little scarce. They were trying to make it vast, but they didn't have quite enough in there. Mm-hmm. But it was cool to change it up. But that was another boss battle that was also overhead. You could kind of exploit the whole depth perception thing to beat the boss. You kind of stay below it. You jump up, hit it a bunch of times. Right. I would even disagree, though, that there's a good enough level variety in the side-scrolling stages. They were all fun enough for me, but there was some moments of deja vu with just different

45:57 background assets. It's like, well, the structure of the stage is still very much the same. Go left to right. Just head right and get to your thing and dodge or attack enemies as you choose. Right. The level that stood out for me was the cave level. Yeah, same. I think that the cave level is really cool because it's actually got some dungeon design to it where you have to choose your paths, check out with the- It's got more verticality to it. Right, right. See what the legendaries have to say. There was another level that you use primarily, the grapple hook.

46:26 Yeah, in the forest. Yeah, I think there was another one. Well, I mean, you use them in all the stages, but I'm talking about in the forest. There's one where you're climbing a mountain, basically, with the grapple hook. Right, right, right. To go to the Sky City. Yeah. I thought that was cool. And you're right, they don't get too different from each other. But I think another reason why it didn't bother me too much is the game is relatively short.

46:51 It never, for me, felt like, oh, this is getting old. It's only five levels. Well, I mean, it's short when you have the resources that we have. But I think it's much longer for people that only have the manual to go off of. That's all I went off of. I think everything you need is in the manual. It tells you exactly where to get the things, and there's a map of where. It tells you where each item is and the map. I never struggled with what to do next. Yeah. And what's interesting is this might go as one of those games that I've booted up the most in nostalgia. I've just continued to be like, okay, I finished that. I'm going to take a break now. And then, oh, but I got to go back in now.

47:32 Or I'm stuck on a boss. And then, okay, but I just want to try that thing one more time. Something about this game kept intriguing me to go back to it. Like, I didn't know what the payoff was going to be. And to be honest, the ending's not that great. But I didn't know what was going to happen. But I was just intrigued by this whole world. Yeah. And it's like a weird thing that I was able to play it in five-minute doses. But this isn't one of those games that you should be doing that in. No. I agree with Joe.

47:57 It's short. It is a short game, all things considered. It's also a relatively easy game, all things considered. I wouldn't say this is an NES hard style game. I think most people could play this. The core gameplay mechanic is pretty easy. None of the enemies pose that much challenge. But I just think that this game is really hard to do in one or two sittings. And the fact that you cannot save in this game. And there's no password feature in this game.

48:28 Like, kids in the 80s, I mean, there are ways to save now between, like, if you've got, like, a Retron. Or if you've got all that, like, if you're emulating or all these things. Like, you can save your progress. But you need to keep the system on if you want to make any kind of progress in this game. Right. And I just think that that is a huge oversight for, I know that you guys are saying that this is short and easy. But it still takes some time for, like, a new player, I think, to get accustomed to it. Right. And I think, but I also think that's part of the journey.

49:01 You know, like, this is weird. But, like, I didn't mind replaying the beginning a few times. Like, and I did. I did. Like, when I got far enough, I was like, okay, I'm far enough now that I just want to see this thing through. But I've played, like, up to getting the grappling hook, like, a lot. Like, there's just something about, like, the fun of, like, starting in the mountain, exploring the mountain, getting to the overworld, and then acquiring the grappling hook and being like, oh, there's such a neat thing about, like, and I think it's just, like, me neat. I don't think it's, like, an actual, like, great game. I just think, like, you know, like, it's so cool for me to be seeing this as someone who's playing them in chronological order.

49:40 It's just like, huh, this mechanic is everywhere now. But this is where the trend is going. And it's, like, the first one that we've seen. Yeah. I just also think, though, Sean, like, I'm not saying it's so short that you could beat it, like, in 15 minutes. But it should not take anyone who wants. You can beat it in a couple hours. Yeah. I was going to say, anybody who wants to beat the game should be, even with, like, dying and starting back up again, because you only go to the very same screen that you win.

50:09 That's including boss fights. Like, if you die at the boss fight, you just go right back into the boss room. That was nice. Yeah. Because some of the bosses, yeah, it took a few tries. And if I had to play the whole level again, you would have probably backed out. Yeah. But it's a long enough game. They understand that there's not a save feature to it.

50:23 And we're talking maybe, like, at most four hours. Like, tops. That's what I would say, too. If you really know this game, like, after a while, I think you can get all the way up to the ending in, like, 45 minutes. I mean, I did watch this B-run that happened. It was, like, less than half an hour. But, I mean, I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah. Did either of you get to the final boss? No. Yeah. The Ligar. Ligar, yes. Is it the Ligar or is it Ligar? It's Ligar. His name is Ligar? Ligar. And he's green. And he has, like, two. What are those things coming out of him? They're, like, I got it written down here. You know, mouth things.

51:02 I think they're, like, snakes. I thought it was, like, a lion with snake heads. Yes. I thought that's what it was, too. Is that what a chimera is? I don't know. No, but also, like, just to be clear. It's an animalized man wriggling ear right. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, to be clear, he's an animalized man. But also, the snakes aren't, like, as predominant as the Ligar himself. They're just, like, these.

51:21 Is he a lion tiger? Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. Well, that's actually what I immediately went to. And then I was like, oh, yeah, but that wasn't a thing in 1987. Was it not? It's just weird that, no, the first Ligar was created, like, when, you know, like, 2000-something. Are we talking about, like, Napoleon Dynamite right now? Yeah, okay. Well, it's in the play, though. There was a real. I thought they made a Ligar.

51:43 In real life, I could have sworn. Hey, maybe. I could have sworn. It doesn't sound unbelievable to me, yeah. See, thank you. They are real. Thank you, Chris. See, that's why we have our audio producer. Yes, for that reason. Just for the, because he's a Ligar expert. I forgot that he works at the zoo and is our Ligar expert.

51:59 So, Sean, do you want to take back laughing at me now to my face? No, I still think it's funny. Okay. Anyway, can I, can I. Talk to me about the final box. Talk about the final level in general. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, first of all, you climb up to this final level, which is, like, this castle in the sky. Something that is teased at the, even at the very beginning of the game, like, when you first get to that stage, enough of the legendaries will kind of, like, poke you to be like, hey, check out what's up there. And then when you finally get up there, they're like, oh, but you need these five things before you should even think about going up there. They got a nice view from the roof.

52:34 But when you get up there, too, it is, I liked it. Now, looking back on it, maybe it's kind of a flaw. But you're kind of just, like, in this huge castle wall. It's, like, seven or eight screens long, and there's no door on that side. You get to the corner, and you've got to go up seven or eight more screens. But I kind of thought it was cool at the time. I was like, oh, my God, this is so vast.

52:53 Right. If only, I guess, like, my response to that is, if only it was as vast as they made it seem. Like, really cool if you want to do something like that, but then to have it actually not be that, like, crazy long of a level that, like, is intricate was, like, strange. Yeah, you go through, and it's, like, it's just a bunch of very similar-looking square rooms with a bunch of shadows. The monsters are all just shadows. Yeah, yeah, they're all shadow monsters, which isn't explained in the manual as far as I know. But, like, sure.

53:21 But you know. In the clouds, everybody is shadow. Right. Yes. But they do, after a while, kind of, they take their toll on you. So when I got to the boss, I only had, you know, my three health, and when you die, you always respond with your three health, even if you have room for more health. So I left and went, got my health back up, got enough points to have a recover stored away.

53:42 And at a certain point, once you get the coat of arms, there are certain of the bald men. Yeah, the legendaries. There are certain guys that will just give you a life potion that's different than those little red potions that drop in the enemies. Right, this life potion you can use whenever you want, and it gives you all of your health back. But also, when you talk to those guys, they give you the potion and give you all of your health back. So I stocked up on that potion, on that recover, went back in, tried to keep my health as long as I can. And you can have two of those potions. You cannot. You can. The other space does not let you take a potion I tried. Oh, interesting. It only lets you take, what is the last item you need?

54:23 The ocarina. No. Really? Yeah. The ocarina. It only lets you take a flute or something. It's what you need to do to, like, open the door to the shadow realm. Okay. Because I thought you could get two of those, but you can't. But you can exploit it completely. You can go in there as many times as you want as long as you have room for a potion, get your health fully healed, and get a potion. But I went back up to the main level, tried not to fight that much because I didn't want to lose any health, got back to the boss, and was like, okay, this is it.

54:52 I'm going to just go in and attack, lose all my health, recover, attack, lose all my health, recover, attack. But I only had to attack and lose all my health once, and then on the second time, he died. So, like, it wasn't that hard. So that's just, like, that's the story of this game. I just kept hitting him, and then he just died. The level, to me, was harder than the boss. The theme of the game is hit everything in life, and you'll just get what you want. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, and then, Joe, how did you feel about the ending?

55:26 It's just like a, I don't know what I'm expecting, really, I guess. But, like, from some games, you know, like smaller-sized games, when you get an ending, it's just like, congratulations, you did it at the end, right? And it's like, I guess, like, for Rygar, I was expecting, like, a more conclusive thing. But they really just kind of send you off with, like, a story of, like, peace is now returned. You've done it. Well, also, you get that really nice picture. It's just one screen, right? Of the dove. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The dove, yeah. Who is the dove? It's just a dove. I thought maybe that was Rygar now. Okay, you opened, okay, but you know what you did? You opened the peace door.

56:03 The peace door was removed when Rygar came into office. Into office. This is a political office. When you create the peace door again, that is like, you know, it's all about the, what you guys just don't understand is this game is talking in metaphor. And the peace door stands for peace in the world.

56:24 I think I got that. That's beautiful. I think I did understand that. Okay, you know what? I take it back. The ending's great. The ending's a masterpiece. And I really wish that they would just make a Rygar film. To be honest, this might say something about the ending, but when you asked me that, I couldn't quite remember how it ended. You don't remember the dove? I don't remember the dove even now. But I do remember that it's just one, like, it's like a title screen, and it doesn't go away. It's a screen that says, you know, whatever, peace has returned, yada, yada. But then I'm sitting there waiting, I'm pressing A, I'm pressing start. I guess you just have to restart the system. You have to hit the reset button. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's normal.

56:59 I was hoping for a new game plus. Don't you remember? Don't you, Ed, could you imagine how, like, awesome that would be if, like, you just kept all your stats and you get to do the whole game again? You just go to the end again. You just wreck everything.

57:12 Speaking of, you know, like, wrecking everything, the game- Wreck-It Ralph 2 is coming out soon, right? Why did we both think that? Is that because, like, 20 episodes ago, I was like, Wreck-It Ralph 2 was bad, and you guys were like, it didn't even come out? And I was like, it feels like a dick.

57:31 Yes. Yeah, I think it is coming out right around the time of this episode. Anyway. Brought to you by Wreck-It Ralph. No, definitely not. I was going to talk about the progression thing. It lets you go all the way up to 4086, which is just ridiculous. But I do wonder, if you have 4086, the Ligar isn't a one-hit kill probably, right? It's probably still a couple hits. Probably. I don't know. I think that would be funny if it actually was, like, you know, 4086 is the max, not because of some integer flow thing, but because that is the max anybody could possibly get because it will kill the Ligar in my head. Like, I just like that idea. Yeah. But probably not the case.

58:16 All right, and that's Rigar. Yeah. It was developed and published by Tecmo. They just did our last game, Mighty Bomb Jack. Yeah, it was a track record. Yeah, it's just a weird track record. You remember Jack, right? I know Jack, yeah. You remember Bomb Jack? Yeah, that was the back of the box. Oh, yeah. You know Jack? You remember Jack, your friend from the arcade? He needs your help here.

58:42 And they're going to go on to do Solomon's Key, which is a game we'll get to in, I think, like two weeks' time. Oh, fun. So I know that Solomon's Key is pretty well received. Rigar is only a game I found out about recently before recording. I think Ben Jedwards, who runs Vintage Computing, he was like, Rigar was, like, the only game I had for the NES, and I thought it was awesome. And I was like, oh, Ben Jedwards. That would happen. Sure. Yeah. It was the only game you had. And I'm like, but I am impressed. Let me say that. Rigar is impressive, given when you play these games in chronological.

59:12 To determine if it's impressive when you go back and play it today, we'll figure out in a minute. But first, I want to ask, are there any stray thoughts that we want to cover before we go into our essential games list? I guess I could say the music was nice for the most part. There was one track, I think it was in that Durago, that top-down dungeon, that was, I think it was actually just four notes. Right. Over and over and over again, and the most repetitive dungeon in the game. So, other than that, I liked the music. I think it's funny that you guys liked the music, because let me say this. Every time I entered a new stage, I was like, oh, this music is pleasant. You know? Like, wow, look at this.

59:52 But on every single stage, I would turn my volume back on to hear it, and then I would immediately mute it again. Because even if it's nice, the loop is too frequent. And it's to the point where everything is just a melody. So you just continue to hear that. And then you get stuck in your head, and then you're on a run, and you hear it in your run, and you have to get out. I guess I should say there were standout songs.

1:00:16 Like, not every song was great. Like, that first song is just a lullaby. Wait, are you talking about the song with the sun from The Lion King in the background? All right. Don't diss the sun from The Lion King. That was a pretty cool backdrop. That's a good sun, yeah. Yeah, I think that is a great sun. Don't get me wrong. I don't mean that as the first song. Right away, you start out on that screen, and like two seconds later, you're on another screen. Top five suns in the NES.

1:00:40 But that main, what is it, Grand Mountain song is a lullaby. And I didn't care for it. Exactly. Not only that, it actually feels like one of those songs that you would hear, like, first thing you wake up in the morning. First thing you wake up in the morning, and that's like the anthem of the town. It's time to go to communist work or something. What? I don't know. The song is just giving me some weird vibes. Like, I didn't like it. All right. Well, on that note, I guess we should move on to the Essential Games list? Uh, okay.

1:01:16 All right. It's time for the Essential Games list. And you know, something I noticed just while editing some episodes recently is that I say, okay, it's time for the Essential Games list. The shortest song in the world plays. And then I'm like, all right, it's time for the Essential Games list. You know, it's like people are expecting probably a break, a chance to pause, and it's like immediately we go right into it. So I'm sorry. This will probably be the last time I do that, but I thought it was worth acknowledging, because this way when I don't do it in the next episode, you'll understand why.

1:01:45 But, Sean, explain to me. What is the Essential Games list? Okay, so here's the thing, man. All right. So we played all these games, and you want to play some games. We don't want to play all of them. You want to just play, like, the highlights. You want the greatest hits collection. You want, now this is what I call NES Games 4. This is, we're going to tell you what games are on that, TD.

1:02:08 Great. Yeah. That's the exact explanation. I think you tripped yourself up once you went for Volume 4. Yeah. Wouldn't it be, like, 30? Well, I mean, you know, there are only a few tracks. You're right. This is the first volume of Now That's What I Call NES Games. Right. Okay. So with that in mind, let's look at it. Everybody put on your 2018 goggles. Yes. Okay.

1:02:32 Joe is looking very alert. Those are my goggles. Good, good. Those are my open eye goggles. So Joe, take me through your Essential Games list vote. All right. I got a little bit of a story here. Love it. But when I first started playing this, I remember thinking, wow, if we hadn't just played Kid Icarus, I might have voted this Essential. Like, this is first, this is like when I first discovered the overworld, which is pretty early.

1:02:56 Because I'm a sucker for exploration. I'm a sucker for, like, the feeling of adventure and a story. But then I kind of played a little more, and I really, really liked this game. I agree with most of the things that you guys complain about, and I have some of those complaints myself, but for me, it's just, it was short enough that those, that, like, the lack of variety didn't bother me. It just felt like I was on a little, a little adventure. And that's the kind of thing that, that I'm always looking for.

1:03:21 And also the fact that you have character progression, and you have these power-ups, and you have a sense of the world that you're in. And by the end of the game, I kind of felt like I knew where I was in the world. This sounds very, like, I discovered myself while playing this game. I'm waiting for that one. Please go on, yeah.

1:03:40 And just the variety, I mean, I know it wasn't crazy variety, but there was enough variety to just keep me entertained. And I, this is the first game in a while that I've beaten in general, first of all, for nostalgia. And also that I beat because I was just having that much fun.

1:03:56 So I got to vote This Essential. All right. I really liked this game, and I see the flaws, but I think I still, even with the flaws, I'd still go back and play it. Regardless of this podcast, I would just play it because it's fun. Love it. It seems like Joe really enjoyed his time with Rygar, maybe playing as Rygar. Maybe you'd like to meet Rygar one day. If that could be arranged.

1:04:24 With that in mind, Sean, would you, you know, I'm not going to hint at what I think your vote is, but would you like to wake Joe up? All right. So I'm going to use an analogy here. I think that Rygar is, it's like an orchestra. It's got all these different, it's got the brass and the woodwinds, and it's got all these different, like, different sections of this song that they're going to make. And all those sections are like the open world. It's got pretty nice graphics. It's got character development. Not character development. It's got character progression. It's got different modes of play, whether it's the side scroller or the top-down view.

1:05:19 But it's, then this orchestra plays hot cross buns. And that's all that it's doing, because the core gameplay mechanic is just to hit. And it's not even like, oh, but when should I hit? It's just hit always, because there's no strategy, there really isn't too much strategy going on with any of the enemies, except for maybe the first couple bosses where it's like, okay, jump after the fireball and then hit. I just think it's too basic of a game when you actually just look at the moment-to-moment gameplay to say that, like, and I do respect all of the cool features that they have in this, like the open world and everything I just stated, and a lot of the proto-RPG elements that it sort of introduced to us.

1:06:14 I just think that it has way too many technical and design flaws for this to be on the essential games list. That's fair. My only defense to the strategy thing, and I totally get that, but my only thought about that was, for me, I didn't feel like, I love strategy in games, but I didn't feel like this was trying to be a strategy game. And I still get your, I know what you're saying. All games are strategy games. It's not a strategy game, man.

1:06:45 By that logic, any game that you have to think about any sort of action that you're going to do is a strategy game. I just think that it has little depth. Okay, I see. Yeah, it was too easy to just kill everything the same way. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I guess, like, you know, much later game, but since we're in the essential games list mode now, we can compare them, is if you're looking at something like Secret of Mana, right, which is an action RPG, right? It's a game that, you know, even though it's, like, more top-down than side-scrolly,

1:07:21 the way that you attack enemies, right, even though it is just kind of like, oh, I just slash the enemy, I do whatever I want, right? It's like, well, you know, the bosses and stuff are, like, they're designed differently enough from each other that every time you go into a fight, it's not just like, how do I figure out how to slash my sword into this thing as many times as possible? It's like, you have to figure out the pattern of the boss and, like, what makes the, you know, like, what makes this encounter different and why I shouldn't just go in there guns blazing.

1:07:48 Because I felt like I could certainly go into every level just being hot-headed Rygar who's just ready to take down everything. Right, okay. And, yeah, and after that explanation, too, I guess I agree with that, too, that it is, like, very simple. And I guess, for me, I just had enough that satisfied me that I didn't mind. Joe, I don't want you to, yeah, I don't want you to, you know, to change your thought. Oh, trust me, I still, 100%, this was essential to me. I really like how much you enjoyed this game. I still say play it, it's not essential.

1:08:19 For me, there is no denying that this game is an experience and one that I chose to play through, like, a couple times. Like, I only finished it once, but I really wanted to, like, continue to just go back to it. Not because I even felt like I was missing something, but just because I didn't want to miss something. I kept going back and saying, like, oh, maybe there was a different way to handle this or a different way to do that. And, sure, there wasn't.

1:08:42 You know, like, it's not that, we're not at that stage yet in game design where we're going to see stuff like that. But for everything that this game has to offer at that point in time is just really interesting and I think is, like, a point to trace to that I would totally recommend, like, the parties interested. Like, if you've heard anything about this progression, this pre-Zelda, pre-Metroid, Zelda-like progression system with Metroid-like tools for exploration, if that's intriguing you at all, you've got to check out this game because, like, I certainly got good vibes playing this game.

1:09:15 The reason why it's not going on the Essential Games list for me is because everything that makes this game cool is also done better in other games and isn't nearly as incomplete as this game is. There's a lot more that this game can do that it didn't do and probably because of a limitation of the time and also just because it hadn't been done yet. You know, like, there wasn't, like, that idea. But I don't think that that's a reason for an excuse on the Essential Games list.

1:09:49 So for me, this game was a ton of fun to play and I really enjoyed it. But at the end of the day, can I really say you must play Rygar? Yeah. I think, like, for me, too, this game, I might have enjoyed this game more than a few games I put on the Essential Games list. But I think that makes me think more about should those games be on the Essential Games list more than this game should be on because I enjoyed it more than those games. Will there be an Essential Games list purge? I think it's coming.

1:10:19 Get ready for the reckoning. Well, especially, I mean, I feel like we have a lot of great games this year that are all going to be coming all at once. Yeah, yeah. They just keep coming, too. Speaking of great games, next week we are playing Section Z. I'll let whoever has, you know, played that game of our listeners decide whether they think that's a great game or not. We'll let you know next week. If you can't wait for next week, I'll tell you good news, okay? www.nostalgiacast.com has access to the other 49 episodes plus the special. Yes. Don't think that the 49th episode was actually the 50th because, no, I number the specials differently.

1:11:02 Open up your app, whatever you're playing this podcast on, and look at the title of this episode. It is 050. And the reason is for that first zero isn't for some cool art aesthetic. It's because we are going to hit up to 700 of these bad boys. And if you want to invest in that ride, if you're like, I'm ready to invest, I'm going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, pull back the wallet and pull in the interest. We want your interest, baby. If you do want to invest. We collect interest on what you pay us. Well, I meant the attention. Interest and attention. If you can reach me with the investment.

1:11:40 Yeah. If you could send a separate email to Sean. But if you wanted to email us, that would be contact at NostalgiaCast.com. Not Nostalgia. We're talking about Nostalgia. And, of course, you know how to spell that because you love the NES. That's the whole reason you're listening to this, right? You know? Because Nintendo does what Nintend does.

1:12:02 I'm Michael Esposito. You can find me on Nesposito Film on Twitter. Can't wait for another 50 episodes with these guys. Let's do it. Section Z coming your way. It's a shmup if you didn't know. Have fun. Bye. All right, now it's time for the post show. How the post show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the 50th episode post show. Joe and I are going to do a podcast. Can you leave? I don't think so.

1:12:53 See, I know about mics without mics. Who? Contrary to popular belief, not only would I have known about it because it's already aired. Okay. Wait, really? Yeah, it's in one of the episodes. I forget which one. But the reason why I know it's in one of those episodes is because I edit the episode, Sean. I don't know if that's true. That's not true. Yeah, I put it in there myself. Sam edits all these episodes. Sam edits them. Sam's in a dungeon right now, okay? When's the last time you heard from Sam? I actually don't know. I think he hired the vacuum cleaner guy from Breaking Bad to move him to Vermont.

1:13:28 Okay. Speaking of, since we're in the post show, I've been watching Better Call Saul. So have I. Back from the beginning. No, no, no, no. Underrated show. Back from the beginning. Don't shush me. I'm trying to talk to you, Bev. You're about Better Call Saul. Yeah, no, I had to shush you just because I was very nervous that you were about to spoil something. I would never spoil anything. You know how I feel about spoilers. I am on the very end of season two right now.

1:13:52 Good stuff, right? The majority that I, but the interesting thing is a lot of people have told me, oh, if you like season one and two, you're going to love what happens next because I thought that stuff was boring. I was like, that stuff's not boring. That was exciting. Yeah, man. I like the stuff. It's a slow burn. No, this is great. But we cannot have this conversation when there are people in the audience that haven't heard

1:14:13 the good word. Well, I'm trying to make this spoiler free. I haven't said anything either about it. Yeah, you just said it's slow moving. Yeah, I just said that the first two seasons have been great. People have been telling me they haven't been so great. I think I'm ready for seasons three and four just because, right? We're on four now? We're on four, yeah. Three is available. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. I'm getting to it. Oh, okay. I'm going to get to that. Problem is I have to watch these with my girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah, that's a problem. Well, no, of course, it's not a problem. But, you know, me, if I could watch on my own time, I'd be done. Yeah. All right? Like, I don't need sleep.

1:14:49 Okay? But teachers need sleep. We can agree on that. Every teacher should get a good night's sleep because- They have to talk to children all day. I have to talk to children all day. I put that in quotations. Guys, they're right outside. Why are they still here? No, I'm not talking about those people. Hard-fucking team in the world. Oh, my goodness. I'm not talking about those people. All right, we have to cut the post show short because I have to go talk to those people. Thank you for listening. Good night. Sweet. Fun. I thought it'd be fun.