277 · The Adventures of Lolo 2

• Our hero Lolo has charmed and enchanted puzzle-loving game players around the world
• NES Longplay
• It is the seventh installment of the Japanese Eggerland video game series; it was the fourth game released in European countries and the second one released in the United States and Canada;[1][2] it was never released in Japan.
• What’s new?
• Puzzle difficulty?
  • No time to explain mechanics, it assumed you’ve played
• Is Lolo more like Picross or Bomberman?
• Is Lolo better suited for Game Boy than NES?
• It’s the kind of game you kind of forget about the mission from puzzle to puzzle?
• What’s your puzzle solving strategy?
• What mechanics would you add to Lolos puzzles?
• Also featured are four hidden Pro puzzle rooms, which are available for players who want to try very challenging rooms
  • they can be reached by typing PROA, PROB, PROC and PROD respectively as passwords.
  • Favorite examples of Hidden content?
• EGL
• Next week - Al Unser Jr.'s Turbo Racing
• NEStalgia Byte - Downtown Special: It's Kunio-kun's Period Drama, Gather Everyone!

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 Adventures of Lolo 2, our hero Lolo has charmed and enchanted puzzle-loving game players all around the world.

00:23 And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. Adventures of Lolo 2, not to be confused with Essential Game, Adventures of Lolo 1, that we will find out later in this episode. It has been about 105 episodes, which is basically 105 weeks. It's been a long time. It's been over two years since we have, um, actually it's been exactly two years, right? Isn't that the math? 52 times two, 104?

01:00 Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Exactly plus a week, plus however many weeks. Ah, David. All right, screw the episode. We're not doing this. Yeah, let's turn this off. Screw the episode. And I'm done. Yeah, thank you. Uh, Joe. Every Wikipedia page. We're coming back. Joe, um, Adventures of Lolo 1, um, you know, we voted that on the Essential Games list. Were you looking forward to in Adventures of Lolo 2?

01:22 I was quite a bit. I'll, I'll say that I had kind of forgotten, uh, just how charmed I was with the first one. And I, and I sort of deliberately didn't go back to it so I could just play this one fresh, but I do remember, um, liking a lot. So, you know, and I like a good puzzle game. Sean, what's your favorite thing about Adventures of Lolo? Just the, the, the franchise?

01:46 I, I like the, because like a lot of puzzle games that we've played just have like a very basic, like lock and key situation. I really liked how Adventures of Lolo 1, um, it, it seemed like there were a bunch of different ways to interact with the puzzle and, uh, that made you more like, oh, like, this is a weird emergent behavior that you can take advantage of or stuff like that. You know, it's, um, it's more unique than the other puzzle games we played.

02:20 Yeah, it's also, uh, at least the first one, we'll get into it about the second one. It's one of those that starts off almost too easy. You feel good doing those puzzles being like, yeah, I'm so smart. Anybody could solve those. And by the end of the game, you're really scratching your head. Huh? How, how, how do I, uh, get all the, um, I don't know if they have a name in the manual for these things, but like, you know, the, the pink orbs, like, how do I, how do I get all that stuff?

02:45 Um, you know, Adventures of Lolo 2, on the other hand, is. Is the, you know, tell me if this sentence makes any sense. It is the seventh installment of the Japanese Eggerland video game series. It was the fourth game released in European countries and the second game released in the United States and Canada. But Adventures of Lolo 2 was never released in Japan.

03:14 What? That doesn't make any sense. So wait, okay. But, Adventures of Lolo 2, in some way, like, had to have come out in Japan, right? Like, as a different name? Like, maybe it was a different number? Yeah, so, great, great, uh, analysis so far, Sean, because you're right. In some way, it had to, it had to come out for it to be part of this Eggerland series. But actually, it's more confusing than you would think. It's not like, oh, Final Fantasy, like, Adventures of Lolo 2 is actually Adventures of Lolo 6 in Japan.

03:47 It's not like that. Instead, these Adventures of Lolo games take, like, one half of one Eggerland game and another half of another Eggerland game. And they just, like, grab the puzzles from various games. And then they also, like, change the sprites a little bit, uh, to, to be, like, one cohesive look. So basically, they're just stealing the puzzles, but technically remaking the games. And so that's why Adventures of Lolo 2 never released in Japan, because they would, they wouldn't be new puzzles, but it would technically be a new game.

04:21 So I'm guessing it's kind of like a, like a best of Eggerland is, like, Adventures of Lolo. Right. Which, which are the good puzzles? We'll, we'll just use those. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if they actually test the puzzles beforehand and be like, yeah, these are the ones people will like. I'm sure they just throw them in there, you know? I'm sure they don't even test the puzzles normally. Yeah, they don't even design them. They just, they just put stuff down and hope that it's a puzzle.

04:45 It definitely feels more confusing than most Japanese adaptation video games that we get over here in America, where it's just like, oh yeah, it's the same game, but they removed all the licensed stuff. Or, oh yeah, it's the same game, but two is three and three is four. Um, instead, this is really hard to keep track of because you actually have to play all of the, if you wanted to, if you're like a huge Eggerland fan, you'd have to play all the Japanese games first and then notice the repeated puzzles in Adventures of Lolo. Uh, maybe it's like a publicity thing. They're like, even our releases will be, like, it'll be puzzling to just understand, like, what these are.

05:24 Now, now they'd have to make it like an ARG or something. Yeah. To do like that, you know? Well, maybe just no one's went to, you know, the woods in Canada somewhere to dig up the floppy disk that had the original game on it. That reminds me of, like, when developers, uh, talk about their games nowadays and they're like, yeah, nobody ever found out about this secret. Uh, and then, like, the whole community, like, comes together and tries to find out about that secret.

05:49 Um, it happened with, uh, most notably the Arkham City game where those guys eventually found out the clue to, like, open up one of the boats to find out about Scarecrow in, uh, Arkham Knight. Uh, this all sounds weird if you don't know what I'm talking about, but basically, like, they got enough hints from the developers because nobody could figure it out on their own. Oh. Yeah. Uh, so when you make things that hard.

06:12 Wasn't there recently, like, a two-player mode discovered in, like, a classic NES game? I'm looking it up right now. I remember hearing something about this that, like, nobody knew about until years later. Isn't it Punch-Out? Oh, yeah, that's right. It was Punch-Out. There's a two-player mode in Punch-Out? There's a two-player mode in Punch-Out, apparently, where you can play as... I don't think it was discovered when we did the episode.

06:32 Yeah, you can play as the, um, you know, uh, I don't remember any of their silly names, but I don't want to use Mike Tyson because it's too obvious. But, like, the other guys, you can play as them. I'm just surprised that, like, there wasn't, like, a little brother that was just mashing the controller and didn't just figure it out at some point. Oh, no, he did, but Nintendo took him.

06:56 I think maybe just a little brother that was pretending to play wrote this article always believing that there was two players. And it was like, oh, look, I discovered the two-player mode. That's him? Yeah. The two-player mode, uh, in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out is a new feature for Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, but technically not a new feature.

07:16 Adventures of Lolo 2 maybe draws some similar parallels where, um, you know, it's a new game, but how much is actually new? What do you guys notice? What is new in the Adventures of Lolo 2? Well, I'm guessing, and again, I didn't replay one, so I don't remember everything about it, but it does feel like a lot more things get introduced a lot more quickly. You mentioned how in the first game you're like, okay, this is easy at first, and then it gets harder and harder.

07:42 I feel like I feel that level of progression, but I feel like the puzzles, I guess from what I remember, I feel like the puzzles progress a little more quickly in this game. I know exactly what you're saying, Joe, because in the first game, they take the time, it's, you know... It's teaching you. Yeah, exactly. Not as straightforward as, uh, Super Mario Bros. World 1-1, but it's showing you what you can do.

08:08 Adventures of Lolo 2 on Puzzle 1 immediately assumes that you have played Adventures of Lolo and understand how the game works. That was how I was going to describe it. This is like an expansion pack, um, in the same way that those, you know, Super Mario 2, uh, hidden levels or whatever, forgotten levels, that in the same way that that was kind of like an expansion pack. The forgotten levels is really funny.

08:36 What are the levels? They're the lost levels. Lost levels, whatever. You forgot. I felt like it was, uh, it was a lot sooner in this game that I came upon levels where I was like, okay, this is going to take me some thinking. Yeah, these are definitely, uh, more densely packed with little things you got to take care of. Um, at least from what I remember from the first one of like sort of how that one escalated. This one, as we were saying, yeah, escalates pretty quickly.

09:06 So is that what you want in a puzzle game? Do you want, you know, to put it another analogy, it's like the Picross games, uh, on any particular system, right? Uh, they, they haven't reinvented how to play Picross necessarily. Sometimes they do come up with a new mode and that's pretty cool. But for the most part, people still keep buying those iterations of Picross just to solve more puzzles. The, the issue wasn't that they needed new features. It was that they solved all the puzzles. So you solved all the puzzles in adventures of Lolo one. And now you're like, just give me more of that. I want to play that. And so adventures of Lolo two was like, yeah, here have some more puzzles.

09:43 Or does it need to be something like, uh, you know, forget everything you knew about adventures of Lolo one. Cause this time, yeah, it's the Lolo character, but the puzzles are in a side scrolling environment or, you know, something like that.

09:56 I'm going to be honest with you. I don't really know what, uh, Picross is, but I've heard of it. I've heard the name used. Just think of it like, instead of Picross, just think of like Sudoku, you know, like you, you don't, uh, the, the, you can't change the puzzles, you know? Like you have to put numbers in boxes. Nobody's going to be able to like change that, uh, dramatically without making an entirely new game. I, I mean, so adventures of Lolo one, I think was a good enough game. We put it on the essential games list that a, an expansion, a level pack, isn't a bad idea. Like, you know, if you've, if you've beat the game and it's not like, you know, the same replayability comes from a game that you really like the action.

10:44 Um, you've, if you've solved the puzzle once, maybe it'll take you a minute to remember what the solution is, but you're not going to get the same experience out of solving it again. So I think that, uh, if there's any kind of game in which a sequel like this is viable, it is a puzzle game.

11:02 Um, and if it's this good, then I, I'm, maybe it's not what the doctor ordered, uh, in, when you're in certain moods, but I think that, yeah, there's a market for this. This isn't a bad idea. Yeah. I, I feel like it's so not cut and dry as to like how a sequel could work, at least, at least how it could work for me. But I feel like you don't see this very often, like a sequel that is just like using the same, the same elements of the previous game. And like, let's just make more of the game. Let's make another full game like that.

11:39 You know, I always think that it's probably, you know, probably never hurts to like add some tools, add some stuff. But like, I, I do, you know, wish that like we didn't always have to go to a, a format change or a format, like, I don't know, rework in any way. Not that like all games do, but I think about like Final Fantasy games. Like the, the PS1 or Super Nintendo Final Fantasy games are like some of my favorite style of game. And like other JRPGs never scratched that itch for me. But like Final Fantasy is like, well, no, we're, we've evolved past that. I'm like, well, why can't they make another one that's like that in modern time? That's like in that style. So like, I kind of appreciated this, like Adventures of Lolo.

12:22 And like, you know, maybe they could have made some other side scrolling or some other version that would have been really cool too. But this was perfectly fine for me. And as far as like getting you right into it, I, I did like that, uh, that it felt like it moved a little quicker because the puzzles, it's not like they're crazy hard, but it did feel like each puzzle pretty early on became like, okay, like a little bit of an event. Okay. I got to actually sit down and figure this out. And there's never like, okay, well, this one I can just breeze through because it's really obvious. On a similar note though, I guess just to play devil's advocate here.

12:54 Um, when also, also when it comes to puzzle games, like you can, like, even though the particular arrangement of any puzzle may be different, um, if it's using the same tool set, like, like a game like this, where it's mostly about moving blocks. Shooting enemies, uh, to, to sort of neutralize them and avoiding, uh, obstacles.

13:22 Uh, if you're just using those same tools to, to make your puzzle, it can also like just the whole concept can get a little bland. I don't think it did, but in a, in a way that, uh, like say portal portal two is so different because, you know, making just different, like test changes. Uh, you're really just sort of rearranging chairs. Uh, and it's not really making anything that is really challenging you. Like the original did when the concept was still new. Um, I do think that there was room in this game for new concepts and it's been so long that maybe I missed some that were new concepts. So maybe this is unjust criticism, but I also see how that can be used as a complaint.

14:16 Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that like personally, like my personal taste for something like this is I'd like a happy medium, you know, I'd like, you know, yeah, make some changes based up, but I don't, I don't necessarily want a format change. But then sometimes there's a format change and I'm like, oh, actually you, you convinced me, you sold me on why this works. So I, I just think it could go any way for different games.

14:38 Sean, I'm glad you brought up portal. Uh, cause I was thinking more modern games where this kind of equivalent could happen. And portal two is a good example, but even just thinking about something that didn't happen, uh, the witness, if they just made, you know, 30 new puzzles and called it the witness to, uh, nobody is looking for that necessarily. Right. Because that was a, um, an experience in itself to play that game and unravel, um, the mystery of it. Uh, that if you just said, here's 30 new puzzles involving that witness style, uh, you know, puzzle mechanic stuff.

15:15 I think the audience now, especially because of the, you know, the year and everything, there would be less of an appetite for that, especially with DLC and everything. But nevertheless, that is kind of what adventures of Lolo two laid down.

15:29 Not that they are at all the same kind of puzzle game, but the idea remains the same that like, I don't know if adventures of Lolo two could get away with this in 2023, um, at, uh, you know, for any other, uh, means. That, that, that being said though, like in terms of the witness and I've only played a bit of it, but I would say that the puzzles in the witness at like the base level puzzles, not like the higher concept ones where you're like solving puzzles out of puzzles. Like those are pretty like just simple and like maybe they're fun, but it's not the same kind of just enjoying playing with the systems as something like, uh, portal.

16:15 Um, and I think that that's also sort of how Lolo does it. Like, yeah, technically you're just sort of moving puzzle pieces around, but there's still, I think a joy to interacting with, you know, the, the skulls and the Medusas and turning things into eggs. That isn't so much a thing that in the witness you're, you really just enjoy drawing the lines. I think once it gets to the higher level stuff, then yeah, that is an experience. But I, I guess what I'm saying is there's more of a base enjoyment in this game for me than I experienced, but the witness to change things, I guess is I'm just rambling now.

17:01 Well, I, I, I'll like, I guess what I'm thinking is I'm thinking more in terms of just my personal opinion. If I'm thinking of like, would audiences like it? I, I, I agree with you, Mike about like, you know, about like if they released, yeah, just like a bunch more like puzzles in exactly the witness style in like a new kind of quote unquote story or environment.

17:25 But for me personally, like I like the witness a lot. I also haven't completed it. So, you know, I'm taking a little bit of liberties in like, assuming I complete it and I still am enjoying it as much. And if like two years later or something, they're like, oh, there's another game. Like I can't really replay the witness because like, I know the answers to a bunch of puzzles, but like, I wouldn't mind like the same. I love this format. I wouldn't mind just like, oh, let's do another game in that format.

17:48 Like, I think it would probably always be like, oh yeah, cool. Show me something new. That would be cool. But like, if you didn't and it was still like a good, just differently designed game with new puzzles, I don't hate that. Like, it just depends on the game, I guess.

18:05 That's a good point, Joe. And I wonder now to throw another idea at you and feel free to shoot this one down too. Is it too crazy to suggest obviously not with this game? Like they'd have to redesign the level. So I'm not saying take these levels and now this feature is introduced. But just starting from the ground up and saying, yeah, it's Adventures of Lolo, but this time Lolo can jump. You know, it's like, is that worth exploring? Or is that like, that's not what Adventures of Lolo is. Like, it's about moving, it's about moving blocks and, you know, getting out of tight situations and maneuvering enemies. Well, I think that's totally valid.

18:43 Yeah, I think that's worth exploring. If you've, if you design puzzles around that, you've added a new way of thinking. Like, totally. Like, that is the, that's the add the goo gun for Portal. And that was sort of the difference I was making there of a game that switched it up a bit. That it wasn't like, oh, now Portal is a looter shooter.

19:06 Which I think is sort of the complaint Joe would have had. Like, oh, just leave it the same. Make it, leave it a puzzle game. And not Final Fantasy 16. But, and that's sort of, I would have appreciated that out of Adventures of Lolo 2. I'm not, I don't hate that that's all that there is. Because, um, is mostly just Adventures of Lolo 1 stuff. In the same way that I wouldn't have hated Portal 1, Portal 2 just being, uh, test chambers.

19:35 Um, but, yes. I think that that would be totally valid. That'd be a good idea. That'd be an interesting, uh, mechanic to add to something like this. Yeah, definitely. And, like, I don't, I don't, I'm not sure if any of us know. But, like, it's been so long since I've played Adventures of Lolo 1 that I also don't remember if, like, anything is new in this.

19:57 So, like, maybe if I had just finished Adventures of Lolo 1 and then started this, I would get burnt out a lot more quickly. Because I'd be like, okay, I, there's nothing new here. But it wasn't that noticeable to me. It's not a completely new game. Uh, there are no new mechanics. But there are new enemies and, um, obviously new style solutions to problems. But it's not like, oh, and now they added, like, treadmills or something. You know, like, there's no, there's no, like, dynamic environment things that were changed.

20:27 Right. And I think that that's, if you're, like, if a lot of these enemies that do these unique things are different, like, to me that's, that's plenty of a change. Not saying that I wouldn't welcome other changes. But, like, that's different than adding a jump where it's like, oh, there's just new enemies. Just new ways you have to think about solving puzzles that we didn't throw at you last time. It's not a new dimension, though. Like, I think it still keeps the, it still keeps the, the soul of the game, but adds a new dimension to it. It's more so just like, uh, oh, this, in this version of Call of Duty, you have this gun.

21:04 So what is your puzzle solving strategy for a game like this? Without, you know, you don't have to give me a specific level and stuff like that. But for a level where you do get stuck, where it's not as obvious as, like, oh, well, I just have to push this block to avoid this enemy that would immediately kill me so that I can go around him and get a heart. It's like, how do you solve a situation where you actually don't know immediately what to do? What is your method? I don't really have a method. Um, I just poke at stuff, you know, try not to poke at it too much or you might softlock yourself and then have to burn a life. Um, and those are precious.

21:46 Um, but you know, you, you end up learning what each enemy can do and, uh, you try and get a bird's eye view, uh, get, get some altitude on the situation, you know? And then, um, and then you just keep poking. I mean, that's what I do. Yeah, I feel like it, it encourages me to, like, play in a way I normally don't play, which is, like, actually to, to play slowly, you know? Like, I don't know, at first I was like, I'll just try this and I'll try that. But, like, losing those lives over and over again, it doesn't send you back too far, but sometimes it sends you back far enough that it's annoying.

22:25 Yeah. Because, like, sending you back is, at first to me, is, like, a weird punishment in this because it's like, well, I already solved this puzzle so I can just do it again. It's just time that I'm wasting now. Some of these, uh, rooms, these puzzle rooms, like, there's, there are pretty obvious, like, patterns that can emerge that are like, okay, the theme of this one is X or Y. Like, you can see, like, oh, there's a row of these Medusas in this section. So, obviously, trying to figure a way, figure out a way to make that safe is gonna play into this.

23:02 And, oh, there's a lot of just those cute caterpillars around. So, probably gonna have to move them and, uh, and then, like, oh, those stupid stone men are here. I might just turn the game off. So, stuff like that, you know, like, you'll, you'll get an idea just by looking at the arrangement of how, or, like, where to start, at least. Yeah, and I think that became my strategy, like, over time, once I kind of got used to it. It was just, like, try and do as much as I can in my head before I start acting.

23:33 Which is hard. Like, like, that, that's, at least for me, it's hard for me to visualize that stuff. But I do feel like the game, because at first, not to, like, change this question into now, like, a question about the, the system of losing lives. But at first, I did dislike the way that you lose lives, because it just felt like, well, just let me redo this puzzle. I already solved the other puzzles. And I still don't think it's perfect, but I actually don't hate it anymore, because it doesn't send you back too far. It sends you back to the beginning of that tower if you lose all your lives. Which is, like, usually no more than, like, four or five levels.

24:11 But it does make, it does make it so, like, I'm not brute forcing my way through this by just trial and error. Like, it, it. Yeah, I think we had a discussion, ugh. I think we had a discussion about the, how point, how much of a point there is to have lives in a game like this. And I think we came to that conclusion that it's not too punishing, it gives you some stakes. Um, yeah. Right. So I actually kind of started to like it, I guess, again. Maybe I already, maybe I already had this opinion last time, too. But I had forgotten by this time, so it's like, it made me relearn that.

24:48 Yeah. What mechanics, forget the jumping thing that I suggested, what mechanics would you add to Lolo puzzles after playing a few of these? See, I don't know that, like, I guess, like, maybe I just keep sounding like I just don't want new mechanics. Like, I'm not against new mechanics like that, but I, for me, I just think adding new, adding new enemies with new, with new, like, behaviors is what, like, actually really significantly would change the game enough. Like, depending on the behaviors.

25:24 But, like, if you put, like, three of these different things in a room together, they all interact in different ways. You have to think about it in a different way. Now, if you introduce, like, a few more that do different things, like, it's just this, like, there's, like, infinite possibility. You know, not literally, but there's just, like, so many more countless possibilities because of the way these things interact.

25:44 So, like, I think that that's all, like, and I only got to, like, Tower 6 or something in this, so I don't think I'm, like, not even, like, halfway through this game. So, like, maybe they keep doing it, but, like, my want for a game like this is just, like, keep introducing new stuff that, like, that throws me for a loop every time that I have to, like, make me, like, have to relearn how to think about the game just because of what's coming at me in different levels.

26:10 Yeah, I mean, I think, again, that gives you a lot of permutations. To have, like, a new enemy to add to the mix, like, yeah, technically there are millions of different ways you can arrange a puzzle room, and I don't particularly think that that means that it's infinitely replayable because eventually those ideas are going to get stale. But I think if you're going to add... A new, like, mechanic, like, it would have to be something that you can do. Like, right now, there are only so many actions that Lolo can do. There's move, push, uh, shoot, uh, like, shoot, turn him into an egg, basically.

27:01 And, uh, but if you can add another verb to that, I don't know if it's, like, I don't know, turn all the water into ice. Or just affect the, affect the playing field in some way. I think that would be a big enough change that also, uh, uh, gives you some input. And it's a new thing to play with.

27:23 And it wouldn't be too big of a change to say this is a completely different game and the soul of Adventures of Lolo is lost. I think that would be, uh, something. That'd be something. Yeah, I like that idea a lot, too. I guess that's... I like that as much as the enemy thing, too. Just, like, giving you new tools... ...that are, like, small tools.

27:43 Right. Like, maybe there could have been more items to collect that would have affected the environment in one way or another. There are some cool, uh, even early on, like, the raft and stuff like that. Although I believe the raft was in the first game, too. So, uh, not entirely new. But, like, uh, more stuff, uh, that maybe even affected the environment in a way that didn't have to be, um, interactive. So, like, you collect this particular icon item, uh, similar to the heart-shaped items around the room. And, uh, it's like an hourglass.

28:13 And it freezes all the enemies in place, so you're more free to manipulate and break the puzzles a little bit. Because that's something, you know, as funny as it is to compare this to Breath of the Wild in any way. Like, they are, like, each puzzle is a little bit like a shrine. However, in the Zelda shrines, you can complete those puzzles any way you can think of. If you can think of it, you can cheat it and you can do it.

28:37 And the game doesn't forbid you. It doesn't, like, say, oh, I see you just crossed that gap that you weren't supposed to cross. Like, time to restart the level. Like, it lets you get away with it. I think Lolo could have saw some freedom there. Uh, but then the alternative is, is like, well, does that break the game too much and they can't account for all that? In which case, I would say, fine.

28:57 Forget all of the item things and mechanic stuff. And instead, stop focusing so much on puzzles that softlock you in the sense that you have to, um, I think we talked about this morbidity in the first one where you have to hit the select button to commit suicide to restart the level. Because you've softlocked yourself. And instead, make them more about, like, fast reflexes. You know, like, things that, like, if you're, if you're not on top of the situation, like, the, the things you need to help get the pieces, um, either go away or the enemies catch you.

29:29 Uh, I would have liked to see more of that, uh, twitch reflex stuff in this game. Yeah, and there is some. Like, I, I, I remember there, like, a lot of the, sort of, turret-based enemies, like, that, that move around. Like, if you, if you free them, like, you, like, the way to solve the puzzle is kind of to free them, but also you gotta, like, get out of their way immediately. I just see it, like, around, so I'm not saying that, like, you're wrong, Mike, but it's also, it's not also a very big part of it. Uh, but I would see, like, to see more of it, yeah.

30:04 Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing, like, some levels be like that, but I, I wouldn't want to, I, I do like the, the, like, soft block elements. I just like the idea of, like, I know a lot of the games we play are, you know, most games we play are, like, twitch-based reflexes sort of thing. Like, I, I like the little change-up, but I, I did appreciate once in a while within the game that it changed up into, like, a faster pace. Like, even those ones where those, like, stone blocks are chasing you that, like, freeze when they get near you to block you. Like, you gotta be quick on some of those and stuff. Like, it was a nice change of pace, uh, now and again.

30:39 Thinking about the kind of game we have here and where we are in the video game landscape that is 1990, is Lolo better suited for Game Boy than NES? I think yes. I mean, it definitely, I don't think it's the same thing to say that this would be very well ported to Game Boy than to say that, uh, it's, it would be a better home for it. I think it would be just as fun on the Game Boy, but, like, I don't need to be, you know, using a handheld to, like, a sort of small puzzle game.

31:17 Right, but, um, you know, it's a, it's a bit of a pick up and play, solve a few puzzles kind of game. And, uh, granted, I don't think the Game Boy would have been able to save, so it would have been annoying to just continue to repeat the first, you know, five or ten puzzles, however much you can complete on a car trip. Each time you want to boot Lolo up, so they probably would have needed to make it a level select kind of game.

31:39 That said, I guess what I mean is, is, like, I'm just thinking about this the way I play NES games nowadays, which is just however I can, you know? If it's, if it's not on the original hardware, it's on an emulator, if it's not on a, if it's available on Switch, I'll play it on Switch. Like, you know, the best way to play this, is it really, like, in 1990, was it even to, like, sit in front of a TV in your living room and, like, dedicate time like that? Or would this have been better served for, like, that quick burst, uh, of energy and the NES, uh, you know, like, console gaming is more reserved for these larger epic experiences like Super Mario Bros.

32:16 3? I mean, the reason that I, that I like it on a, on a handheld, I don't know, you know, specifically the Game Boy, like, if we're, if we end up talking technical, like, I, I don't know. But, like, yeah, like, it does, for me, that's the exact experience that, like, I was getting out of this, is, like, a pick-up-and-play. Like, hey, I'm gonna play another level of Adventure of Lola right now, because I got 15 minutes.

32:38 Like, you know, uh, you know, like, uh, I, like, I could see myself playing, like, a level on the subway on a commute or something. So, like, I, I think that that, not that, like, yeah, not that it's in, like, a bad place on a console, but I think that, uh, it's maybe just more, like, seems more like more the kind of thing that I would play on handheld. Is this the kind of game where, as you're going room to room, climbing the tower, solving these puzzles, you kind of forget about the mission, the story, the whole, like, goal?

33:11 Yeah, I don't really know what's going on here, and you don't need to. I mean, this is, this is very much window dressing in terms of plot. Like, the only, the only puzzle games off the top of my head that were really plot forward were, again, the, you know, portal. Um, but also something like, uh, like Talos Principle. But that was more so, here's a bit of puzzles, and then here's a bit of story. It was very, like, separated in that way. And in this one, you just start, like, getting sort of, like, intimidated by this dude, and then you walk into the tower, and then it's all puzzles all the time until the very end.

33:58 Yeah, it needed, like, that as you're climbing the tower, even just Pac-Man-style cutscenes of, like, here's just a quick little thing of, like, what's going on with, I don't know, I guess her name's Lola. Um, I'm making that up. I don't know what her name is, but. Probably Lelu. I think it was Lola. Lola sounds right. Um, they show up in Kirby, if you recall. We talked about how they are, like, one of the bosses in the Kirby, uh, series. Uh, so, which is weird, because they're not enemies. Or Layla. They're not villains in this game.

34:29 Uh, thank you for those, Sean. Those are good options. Um, all this to say that, yeah, no, it doesn't matter. And, yeah, until you get to the 50th room and face off against King Edgar, you would have completely forgotten, if you're even just me. Like, what are you collecting the hearts for? Are those the hearts that Lola left behind? Uh, should we even be thinking about that kind of stuff? I don't know. The hearts.

34:52 Like, are these, are these metaphorical hearts? Yeah, like, her love was in this room. Like, is it, like, each of these hearts that you're picking up are, like, a memory that you guys had together, but at the end of the game, you realize that they were all kind of bad memories, and it's actually a breakup game? I feel like this game is kind of like the game version of Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind.

35:17 There are, through the means of using passwords, uh, if you type in Pro A, Pro B, Pro C, or Pro D, you can unlock four hidden pro puzzle rooms, which are available for players who want to try very challenging rooms. Um, I don't know if you, you know, Joe, maybe you want to go back and check these out. Um, they, they were just, like, beyond my means, and I even looked up, like, on GameFAQs, like, the solutions, and I was like, wow. Didn't think that they could get this involved. So, pretty cool that they are thinking about, um, you know, people who have solved, uh, the Adventures of Lolo and are looking for even that additional challenge.

36:01 Uh, just gonna throw this away, though, from Lolo 2 for a second. And just, uh, you know, any other examples of hidden content in video games that you guys, um, either love or remember, uh, don't have to necessarily love it.

36:14 Oh, wow. I mean, I love a good, like, post-game, like, really hard, you know, I mean, like, I feel like all I ever talk about is, like, Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, but, like, you know, there's always, like, an Ultima weapon in Final Fantasy to fight, but if we're talking, like, like, crazy hard versions of a level, I like the, um, well, in the re-release, the recent, like, PS4, um, remake of Crash Bandicoot, they added some, like, levels that were meant to be in the original game that were too hard, which are really cool. Like, they're very, um, they're very, like, I feel like at least one of them is, like, it's, like, the epitome of, like, Crash Bandicoot difficult levels.

36:54 That's a really tough question, and I need to, I need to prepare for that more. I, I guess, like, uh, like, fun, fun cheats are, are cool, like, uh, you know, like, big head mode is kind of a, an, an old thing that, for a while, games were expected to have something like that. Um, but when a, when a game has something to that effect that you, you wouldn't have originally expected it to have, uh, some Paradox games have some goofy stuff, like, uh, if, if you're, uh,

37:31 if one of your stats is, it's, like, stat level is 69, it'll, the description will be nice. Um, like, little things like that I enjoy, uh, yeah, like, easter eggs are fun, but I can't think of any specific ones right now. That's fine, that's fine, no, no, no, and, and hidden content is, is, is true in both regards, like, you both nailed it, because Joe's right that, like, yeah, the Ultima weapon isn't hidden, right? Like, it's not spelled out for the player either, it's not like, you unlock the Ultima weapon side quest, you just kind of have to know about it, or go about procuring the items to get it, right?

38:07 Uh, same thing with, uh, in Final Fantasy VII, fighting the two optional, uh, ultimate bosses, uh, you know, like, you can't, they're not hard to find, but you also have to seek them out on your own. The game doesn't say, like, can't fight Sephiroth until you defeat Omega Weapon, like, it doesn't work like that. I, I, okay, I do have a better one now, like, uh, like, Blood, Bloodborne is, half that game is stuff like that.

38:31 Um, like, there's a, there's a queen that, uh, if you, if you turn her into goo, then she's immortal, and, like, she will sort of remember all your previous playthroughs, um, when you, when you start a new one, um, there's a, the, uh, the way to see the final ending is to eat a bunch of goo that you're not, like, told to eat, and then, like, you get reborn as goo. Um, there's a lot of goo, but, like, it's a game that is based about, that's based around, like, really obtuse shit like that. I love the idea of, like, a character that remembers your previous playthroughs.

39:13 Yeah. When everything else sort of resets, it's weird. Yeah. Sean, would you consider the dog ending of Silent Hill to a hidden content thing? I would say so. The, uh, the requirements for that are so specific. Not hidden content, but certainly feeling like it this week, is, uh, talking about Adventures of Lolo 2 head-on. Instead, we have mostly been talking about what we would change, or what we did expect, or what we think of puzzle games in general. So, I think, more importantly, in our next section, we should really talk about whether we liked or disliked, specifically, Adventures of Lolo 2. And I can't think of a better section to do that in than the Essential Games list.

40:00 Adventures of Lolo 2 is the sequel to a game that I think still, as of right now, should be on the Essential Games list. And that is the Adventures of Lolo 1. Had the Adventures of Lolo 1 growing up. I had a great time with it. I always thought that the puzzles were, uh, really fun. And Adventures of Lolo 2 was not something I had, so this is really my first time going through it. And it's kind of funny that, for me at least, I never sought out, like, Adventures of Lolo 2 and 3, even though I know that they exist. Like, playing 1, I was never like, oh, I should see if I can get a copy of 2 and 3. Like, 1 was enough. And I think that's the headline here, as I talk about Adventures of Lolo 2.

40:43 It's the weird opposite thing, where it's like, you know, some people ask us about Mega Man games and being like, well, shouldn't Mega Man 1 be off if Mega Man 2 is on there? And that's a whole different kind of conversation. But usually you expect the sequel to be bigger and better. And I feel like the steps that they took in Lolo 2, from the beginning, to assume that the player has played 1 and not necessarily, you know, baby step you into the process and slowly ramp up the difficulty curve. But instead just kind of have it start at a level that is challenging to players.

41:21 Not incredibly challenging, but you get the idea. I think Adventures of Lolo 1 is the more, like, complete product. And as I believe Sean might have been the first one to say in this episode, Adventures of Lolo 2 is really, like, the modern-day equivalent of DLC or Disc 2 or a puzzle map. It feels like something I would have gotten from, like, you know, from, like, a Nintendo Power giveaway.

41:44 It's like, you know, oh, we made 50 more levels of Adventures of Lolo if anybody wants to buy it off of us. Like, enter this contest or something like that. Like, it doesn't feel like it's actually worth the full retail price if you already own Adventures of Lolo 1. Like, I already got that. So I don't need it here again. Be curious to see if Lolo 3 just continues to add more puzzles or if they actually change those features. But for those big reasons, Adventures of Lolo 2 will not be on the essential games list for me.

42:15 Joe? I lost sight of a couple things during the episode proper because we were talking about all these positives about it. And there are some things I didn't like about Adventures of Lolo 2. Granted, I think that they are things we talked about in Adventures of Lolo 1. But the main one being the movement system, which sounds funny in, like, a puzzle game. But like we said, there are some levels where you need some, like, twitch reflex parts. And what I just feel like is, like, the weirdest decision is, you know, like, you walk on what, you know, I can imagine the invisible grid that you walk on.

42:52 Like, you take one step forward and it's exactly like this, you know, is exactly one of my invisible squares away. But this, the movement that you have and, like, the places that you could push things, there's, like, there's always, like, a half step off of what's useful for anything. I don't know if that's making any sense. Like, you can push something. I know what you mean. Yeah. You have to push things to the exact spot, which is how these puzzles work. Like, and if you push it too far, sometimes you failed. But, like, sometimes there's, like, you can push it too far but not far enough. Yeah. An object can be a certain size. It'll stay the same size. But if it is occupying two squares, its hitbox is now both of those squares.

43:35 Right. Exactly. And I suspect that actually there might be some times later in the game where that is useful. But so far where I am, it wasn't useful enough times for me to get over how frustrating that was in times where it's like, okay, I know exactly where I need to go because I figured out this part of the puzzle.

43:54 But then it's, like, it's just hard to tell. Like, am I on it or is this next half step the right spot sometimes? So, like, the amount of times that I knew a puzzle and I just, like, put the thing slightly in the wrong spot and had to restart because, like, I couldn't tell. Like, I just feel like they all should have just snapped to somewhat of a grid that's like, okay, you're either here or you're wrong. And there's no, like, this, like, weird in-between that felt pointless.

44:20 And the reason it really bothered me was during some of those Twitch reflex times where you're being chased or, you know, you have to do something under it before, like, something respawns. Where it's, like, the point of the game, in my opinion, is not, like, see how much you can finesse the D-pad to get to the right spot. The point is, like, can you outthink this puzzle? So, like, I felt like sometimes I was just, like, it was working against me in that way, which didn't seem intended. A little long-winded, but that was, like, my big thing that, like, that bothered me. I mean, it's sort of funny that I now understand why you're kind of opposed to Mike's request for more, like, twitchy stuff. Maybe this isn't the right engine for that.

45:06 Yeah, exactly. And, like, you know, but that being said, I did really, really enjoy this game. And like I said at the top, I didn't replay the first game prior to starting this one. And so I'm not really, like, one-to-one comparing them. But if I try, if I rack my brains and try to remember how I felt about the first one, I think I liked this one better. So even if it is, like, okay, it is, like, this sort of DLC pack of new levels,

45:39 I would suspect if I go back and play Lola 1, which I will do before we do the best of, I would think that, and if I had to pick just one of them, I would think I would pick this one. Not that I necessarily have to, but I guess my, all this to say, I will be voting this to be an essential game, despite it being kind of more levels of Adventures of Lola 1, because in my memory, these are better levels. So, yes, I'm voting it essential. All right. I guess that means it's me now. It is you. I also really enjoy this game.

46:16 However, you know, between the different rubrics and the coexistences of things, like, I think in some regards, the fact that this is, even though I do agree with Joe, too, like, that there's enough here, even though it's just sort of the same, I still enjoy it. Like, I'd still play this game. But I think that a little bit more needs to change in order for this to be eligible for the essential games list, for them both to be there.

46:54 So I'm going to vote no. But, you know, in whatever year in 2026, I'll play both again. Joe can hold me to it so that, you know, we can come to an agreement on what deserves to be here. Like, the quality of this game is of essential quality, but, you know, maybe there isn't a room for, maybe the town isn't big enough for the two of them, you know?

47:23 And I would just, yeah, I would argue that my point was is that, yeah, like, if the town isn't big enough for the two of them, the first one is the better, like, overall game, and the second one is just more levels, where the first one kind of, you know, walks you through the ideas and the puzzles, you know, a little more user-friendly than the second one does. The second one doesn't feel like the rooms are evolving from room to room. They're just more like, here are some other puzzles we thought about using the Lolo system.

47:57 I gotta just say I disagree with that last part there. I really felt like the rooms were evolving in this one, and I don't remember the first one, so maybe they evolved more. No, I don't mean evolving like that, though. I meant evolving in the sense of, like, what you learned in the first stage, then you use in the second stage. It constantly introduces the mechanics to you. Not that, like, the levels don't feel the same throughout two. Yeah, the levels change a lot, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's almost too drastically that the levels are changing.

48:26 I'd say that, like, basically the tutorialization that you saw in the first one, because the concepts were new, have been minimized because the game assumes you've played this before. So, as a complete package, it is somewhat lesser. So, like, it's easier to be a newcomer in Adventures of Lolo than it is in Adventures of Lolo 2. Yeah, I'm not trying to just be, like, argumentive, but, like, I don't, I still don't necessarily, like, fully agree. I really do think that, yeah, I mean, I guess I agree that, like, maybe the first one has, like, it is more tutorialized. But, like, like I said, like, I really don't remember, like, I didn't remember any of these mechanics from the first one,

49:09 but this game did a great job of making me learn them each time. And I did feel like things that I learned early on in, like, the first tower came back in later towers. Like, the Medusa heads, like, there's a Medusa head in this tower. The next tower, there's, like, five Medusa heads. Like, now I gotta think of how they work together. So, like, I don't know. I guess I just saw it differently. Like, I see what you're saying as far as, like, the first one being more tutorialization, but I didn't feel like I needed it. And maybe that is because I played the first one, and subconsciously I remember that stuff, but I don't think I did.

49:39 Adventures of Lolo 1 starts in first gear, and Adventures of Lolo 2 starts in top gear. And the game that we are playing next week, Al Unser Jr.'s Turbo Racing, makes you switch between all the gears. It is a racing game, borderlining that arcade simulation thing.

49:59 Right in does, if you know who Al Unser Jr. is. Um, apparently he's from Formula One or something in that world. Maybe Indy 500. Is that the same thing? I don't know. Indy car is different. Indy's different. So, see, this is how much I know. So, uh, I'm gonna just become a diehard F1 fan by this time next week so that I can speak intelligently about these things. In the meantime, if you're looking for more Nostalgia, don't forget that there's 270 plus episodes of Nostalgia to listen to. Did you listen to them all? We will find out.

50:29 If you did listen to them all, there's also a Patreon page, patreon.com slash Nostalgia, where you can listen to all of the other stuff that we make for people that aren't you right now because you aren't a subscriber. So, think about that. There's content out there. You're like, I've listened to it all and I'm here to tell you, no, you haven't. There's a whole nother podcast there. Occasionally, there's other audio there. It's all uploaded there first. So, don't you want it earlier? Doesn't really work like that, but you get the idea.

50:59 It's like the hidden features in Adventures of Lolo 2. It's actually a much harder podcast to listen to. It's very difficult. Yeah, and technically, like, you do need a password. That's true. It's like, you do need a password.

52:27 This is all about to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to be used to Thank you.