159 · WWF Wrestlemania

• Featuring Hulk Hogan and other WWF Superstars
• Introductions
  • AND WELCOME TO WRESTLEMANIA!!!!
• Overview
  • 1989 in Wrestling.
    • We would have been building up to Wrestlemania V. The MegaPowers as they were known (Macho and Hulk) ended a year long friendship and the Mega Powers would finally explode at Wrestlemania V
    • Tournament Mode here is interesting cause it’s a lot like the previous Wrestlemania (IV) where they held a very long tournament and it was pretty panned at the time even though our boy Macho Man finally won the WWF Title
• Gameplay
  • The Pause sound
  • The wrestlers
    • Macho Man every time
    • Surprised no Ricky the Dragon or Ultimate Warrior
  • The controls
    • Or lack of? Everything is contextual because there are only two buttons, but man it’s not pretty here
    • But the move sets do exist, it’s just tough to see them all
      • Macho Man uses his elbows
      • Only certain characters can go off the top rope
      • Only Hulk Hogan is able to bodyslam André the Giant (Wrestlemania III...although he had slammed him a few times before that...but quiet about that)
  • Health Power Ups
    • Honky Tonk Man's looks like a guitar, while Hulk Hogan's looks like a crucifix
  • Where is ANYTHING in this game?
    • Crowds, atmosphere, introductions, announcers...
    • Tournament Mode seems like a favor. Like THERE WE INCLUDED SOMETHING ELSE
• Sequels and Spinoffs
  • A few more WWF games to go to on NES
  • Quick shoutout to WWF Wrestlemania 2000 on N64 and No Mercy. Dig Diggity Dog.
• EGL
  • If you want to fight with these awesome wrestlers allow me to recommend LEGENDS OF WRESTLEMANIA
• Next week - Bandai Golf: Challenge Pebble Beach

Auto-generated transcript. Each paragraph starts with its timestamp. Speakers are not identified.

00:00 WWF WrestleMania, featuring Hulk Hogan and other WWF superstars.

00:22 NOSTALGIA And welcome to NEStalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. I'm Joe. And I'm Sam.

00:36 Guys, welcome to WrestleMania. Thank you. I don't know why they welcome you to it, but that's like a thing, at least in the early years. I don't know if they still do it anymore, but like it would always be like a big thing like, and welcome to WrestleMania. And it made me think of the podcast where it was like, and welcome to NEStalgia. So in a lot of ways, Nostalgia is like the WWF. Do you think that they ripped us off with our intro?

00:59 Possible I ripped them off actually, so we should probably drop it. Hmm. Okay. Well, we started talking about games from 1985, and this game is 1989, so we came first. We preceded them. But WrestleMania started in 1985. The first WrestleMania was in 1985. Oh, that's right. We were all in that same, it was like the Pixar meeting. We decided, we came up with Nostalgia and WrestleMania in the same meeting. Same meeting. We can get rid of it. We can just start blurting out like, Nostalgia here, and then continue.

01:27 Yeah, I forgot that Vince McMahon was actually an original member of the Nostalgia podcast and then went on to just do the WWF instead. He kind of was like, see you later guys. That's right. He did a Dave Mustaine on us. Yeah, if you can get a hold of episode zero of the podcast, he's still on.

01:43 But I do think that I'm the only one who really knows anything about 1989 and the WWF. Am I correct? Did you guys watch old wrestling? Like the wrestling before you were even born? I didn't even watch wrestling after I was born. Yeah. I mean, I watched a few episodes of Dark Side of the Ring, and that's pretty much all I know about the WWF slash E slash Z slash whatever.

02:07 I watched when I was pretty young, but it still would have been like the mid-90s. So it was like the Stone Cold era and stuff. So I know who some of these people are, but I never watched any of this old stuff. Well, I would hope you know who Hulk Hogan is. Yeah. WWF really wants you to know. It's featuring Hulk Hogan and then some other schmoes. Yeah. Like Goldberg. Like Andre the Giant.

02:28 The lovable star of Princess Bride. Do you associate him with Princess Bride more than you would with wrestling? Just out of curiosity because you didn't watch wrestling, I'm just wondering. Yes. Wow, that's crazy. Because even if I saw him in Princess Bride, I'd think like, you know, it's no different than in seeing the big show in Jingle All The Way. It's kind of like, of course that guy's a wrestler. The big show.

02:51 Anyway, 1989 in wrestling. This would have been building up to WrestleMania V. As I mentioned, the first WrestleMania was in 1985. And the mega powers, as they were known, Macho Man, Randy Savage, and Hulk Hogan, they ended a year long friendship. And now the mega powers were finally going to explode at WrestleMania V.

03:16 However, that has very little to do with this game because this game chose to do like a tournament mode as the main feature of the game. And that's an interesting take because WrestleMania IV, the previous year, was the one that had a very long tournament.

03:31 And I think critics mostly panned it. And I think even fans were like, wow, four hours of WrestleMania. Like it was really long and just dragged on and you watched a bunch of people fight each other. But it's notable because our boy, Macho Man Randy Savage, finally won his first WWF title. And I am a huge Macho Man fan. You better believe it. I'd say that if I had to be a fan of a wrestler that I never really watched, it would probably be Macho Man Randy Savage. Mine would be Andre the Giant. But you wouldn't pick Andre the Giant if he endorsed Slim Jims. You would pick him because of the Princess Bride. I have no relationship with Andre the Giant. I identify with Macho Man Randy Savage.

04:13 I pick Andre because I heard that in Princess Bride, he's French and he didn't know any English. So he would just say all of his lines phonetically. Oh, I didn't know that. That just sounds really funny to me.

04:28 I don't know who I would have picked, but it could have been Macho Man Randy Savage before I played this game. But I gotta say I wasn't impressed with him in this game. It took him off my list of contenders. He's got great moves from the top rope though, Joe.

04:43 He didn't get any off on me. Okay, that's true too. And I'm sure we're all dying to talk about the gameplay here. But I feel like if this game was made for no other reason than the pause sound, then this is Joe's shining moment to talk about the pause sound in this game. Because as soon as I paused this game for the first time, I knew that we would have to talk about this. And I don't want to wait 40 something minutes. This is crazy. You're going to lead off with the pause sound?

05:11 I am going to have plenty to say about the pause sound. I have plenty to say about the pause sound. It's having the cherry on top of the dessert before eating the appetizer. Well, actually, what I'm thinking now, I appreciate you teeing that up because I am going to say a lot about the pause sound and then I'm just going to sign off for the rest of the episode so you guys can take care of the rest.

05:27 I did notice the pause sound. It is the longest and most intricate pause sound we've had so far. To the point where you can pause the game and then unpause the game and continue playing the game and the pause sound will still be playing from when you paused it. A little, maybe, I don't know, can we even play the pause sound here so people know what we're talking about? Absolutely. Yeah, I will play it right now.

05:52 Wasn't that beautiful? It's a full song. I even got to the point where I couldn't figure out how to pin anyone so I had on my laptop, which was across the room, I had the instruction manual and I would pause it, run over to the instruction manual and as I'm still running over across the other side of the room, sitting down, reading the instruction manual, the pause sound is still playing across the room. So, notable.

06:17 So you had to go and check every time you wanted to pin somebody? No, it was the one time I wanted to pin somebody. Oh, oh. But it also doesn't sound like a pause sound. It actually sounds like something is starting, right? You don't think of it as like an interruption. Right. Yeah, yeah. It feels like, I don't even know, is the game paused yet at first? I'm like, there's so much going on. It just sounds like I, yeah, like I'm summoning something or something like that. I don't know what I'm talking about.

06:44 Well, Joe, you mentioned that you had a little trouble figuring out how to pin people. Do you feel like, and this goes to everyone, did you feel like you had a little trouble figuring out how to do much of anything in this game at the start of it at least? I would say that, you know, this game isn't impossible to play, but it certainly felt like it when I first got in the ring. I was almost just like, alright, so does Macho Man only attack sometimes? Like, does he not attack every time I press a button? I felt a little weird about things at first. Sean, I don't know if you want to talk more about that. Yeah, things feel a little sticky.

07:16 Like, there's some lead up to the actual action that you perform before you press the, like, after you press the button to do it, which, I mean, makes sense. It's like, you know, wrestling games usually have that extra weight added, kind of. But another thing that's weird about it is, while you can walk around in, like, a form of 3D space in the ring, you only get to attack on, like, a flat plane. So I think that contributes to it, too, of things either feeling like they're not connecting when they should.

07:54 And, yeah, it's sort of an issue that has cropped up in games like this before. Yeah, that was my biggest qualm, was the fact that you can walk into Z space, but you can't do anything while facing that way. Like, they made it possible so you can face both forward and backward, but you're useless until you're facing, like, horizontally towards your opponent, which feels like half the game is missing.

08:20 Yeah, I would get in a lot of situations also where I would be kind of stuck in a corner and someone would just bully me because the second I move up to try and get out of the corner, I can't... It's not like you can attack that way. So I would just get punched back into the corner. Yeah, it feels like sometimes you gotta take the hit. You know, you're like, alright, I'm just screwed here. Like, hit me so this way I can get out of where I am. And then I can try to attack you when I get back up. And it's also possible to cheese that on the computer if you're playing somebody low enough on a totem pole. Like, I remember in one of my matches I just sort of did that to the guy to get him down to zero energy.

09:02 So, you know, you can live and die by it. But there are movesets in the game, and even if things rely on some kind of context, it is cool to see that only certain characters can go off the top rope because that was not something everyone used to do. It used to be exclusively to, like, technical wrestlers who were good at that stuff. That's why I mentioned Macho Man earlier on. And he was a guy who went to the turnbuckle often.

09:24 But then you have, like, you know, Bam Bam Bigelow able to do his cartwheel and be silly like that. So I think, like, that's funny too. And it's nice that they included those things depending on the character. It's also, like, Hulk Hogan being the only one who can slam Andre the Giant. Like, that's neat. It first happened at WrestleMania 3, so it's even like a WrestleMania callback there. Although I'm pretty sure he also slammed Andre a few other times in non-televised events. But they don't want you to know about that.

09:53 So this has the deep lore built into the gameplay, I see. Exactly. There's a lot of – you can actually feel the tension more when you're playing as Hulk versus Andre because you just know so much more context. Or if you're playing Hulk versus Macho Man because it's like that's the feud right there. So you feel it. When I play Hulk versus Honky Tonk Man, I'm just looking for the guitar power-up.

10:20 I didn't – I've never heard of Honky Tonk Man. But he was in there. I know. But I'd heard of, like, the rest of them for the most part. Honky Tonk Man was like an Elvis impersonator style thing. And, you know, each character in the game gets, like, these weird health power-ups. Honky Tonk Man just happens to look like a guitar. That's the power-up I was referring to. But then you have Hulk Hogan's, and that looks like a crucifix. Like, what is that about? I thought it was, like, a sword, but, yeah, in the manual it just looks like a cross. I thought it was an X, just the letter X.

10:53 None of those things would make – it doesn't matter if it's a crucifix, a sword, or an X. I don't think of any of those things for Hulk. I would think, like, you know, get an American flag or something like that. The guy was a real American. Or, like, mustache wax.

11:08 Yeah, mustache wax is good too. Yeah. Right? Or, you know, get Mr. T. Mr. T could be his power-up. Well, then they'd have to get the rights for Mr. T's likeness. Well, they wrestled together in WrestleMania 1, so I'm just trying to do as many throwbacks to the previous WrestleMania's before 5. Or maybe it could be, like, the title card for the reality show he'd have later in life. Yeah, that's true too. What was that reality show called? I can't remember now. But it got him in a lot of trouble. I don't remember. Oh, yeah. That show really killed him for the most part, actually. It was – not many good things came out of that show.

11:49 But where is anything else in this game? Where are the crowds? Where's the atmosphere? Where's, like, the announcers at the announcer's table? Maybe some introductions as they enter the ring because that's, like, a big deal. Where are these things?

12:03 I will say I think that the crowd missing is definitely very strange. The other stuff, it's like, okay, maybe they couldn't – you know, they didn't – it's a lot to add that stuff in. But they're not even a crowd. They're just in a black void. I feel like that's just – you know, that's just a texture you can lay behind it. It's a little strange. Since we're still in the pandemic, I just want to say that, like, wrestling in WWF WrestleMania on the NES is very similar to what wrestling looks like right now on TV. There's no crowd. It's just silent.

12:33 I was thinking that. It's crazy. But, like, they shouldn't – I bet they weren't thinking, like, oh, how are we going to solve this whole, like, no crowd thing during the pandemic? Oh, well, I once played WWF WrestleMania, and people seemed to like that game back then. So we can just simulate that but in real life.

12:48 This is off topic of the game, but I think what would have been cool for plague wrestling would be if they just, like, superimposed the canned animations of, like, you know, 3D models from the games, like, just into the stands. I think that would have been a really interesting way to view wrestling.

13:09 Or they could have shot the whole thing like a movie. Like, every fight is actually just, like, pre-shot and looks like a movie. A bad movie, but it would look like one, you know? So this way you don't have to do the whole live thing and worry about that. And the reason I bring that up is not just to talk about regular wrestling, but what if I told you that there was another game that came out this same year on DOS computers where you could fight as Hulk Hogan and Macho Man and such.

13:37 But instead of actually, like, going around in the ring and controlling your character and, you know, choosing their attacks and everything like that. Instead, you pick from a list of attacks and then it shows you, like, an image based on an actual, like, photograph of the WWF. Like, it shows you an image of the result based on, like, the computer determining how, you know, like, whether or not your move was successful.

14:03 Like, a storybook mode. So this is sort of, like, an even lower, like, lower interaction version of, like, the NES Pro Wrestling? Exactly. A choose-your-own-adventure style wrestling. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Where, yeah, all you get is these, like, text fields that say, you know, I'm going to throw a punch or I'm going to climb the top rope. And then the game calculates, like, the probability of that working out for you and then shows an image based on the result. Not even, like, a video file. D&D. Yeah, D&D wrestling. I kind of dig it. I think that's cool. I think that it's, like, it's novel enough that it's, like, its own thing without trying to be a recreation of something else.

14:44 You know? Does that make sense? It's just interesting because they both came out in the same year. You know, that's why I'm calling it out because I actually think I'd prefer, in this case, just being into, like, actual video games. I prefer this WWF WrestleMania NES take here because I do like the idea of, like, I am Hulk Hogan rather than, like, I'm Hulk Hogan's manager calling the shots from the corner and then seeing if he does them or not.

15:07 Speaking of the manager. I think they both kind of have their own, they both have their own, like, they would both have their own fan base. You know? It's like almost totally different styles of games. Yeah. But now that you mention the managers, like, they're all listed, like, in the game and in the manual. Like, why don't we get to see the managers on the sides, too? And that you're missing a lot of flavor, like, in addition to, you know, crowds and that basic stuff.

15:31 Yeah, yeah. And like you said with the managers, like, even just the intros, like, just having them come out with their manager or something would have been nice. They didn't forget everything, though, because there is theme music for each character that I feel like either spawns when one of the theme music runs out or if you pause the game, it automatically changes to the next track when you unpause. But those themes are pretty good. Yeah, I liked them. I didn't realize that there was any logic to it. It just kind of kept switching at random.

16:03 Maybe it has to do with, like, who's got more energy or something. I'm not sure. But I didn't know that they were personalized. And were you surprised when you found out that Macho Man's theme song was Pomp and Circumstance?

16:19 No, I remember it being kind of weird. But I played as him for, like, the amount of time I played the game. So I heard it a lot. Yeah. And I remember this story of this kid who was graduating high school and they started playing Pomp and Circumstance. And he didn't know that that was the graduation song. And he was like, holy shit, Macho Man is here?

16:45 At my graduation? That's funny. Anyway, back to the game. Back to the game. Not that, you know, having a robust selection of wrestlers is a big deal. But I do think it's nice that they didn't just make it two or even just four characters. Like, if they're going to make it a tournament mode, they at least gave you eight characters to choose from. And I feel like they all are different enough, both in personalities from their actual sport, but also, like, in the game as well, that you can pick different people. I know Sean and I mostly played as Macho Man just because why wouldn't you pick Macho Man if the option is available to you?

17:23 However, like, it is a different experience playing as different characters. I think that needs to be mentioned. It's not like everybody has the same punch. Everybody does the same thing when they're running off the ropes and stuff like that. So I think that's nice. What did you guys think of that? Yeah, on one level, I was pretty impressed with how they, I mean, as someone who doesn't really know these people very well,

17:45 it seems like they put a lot of thought into making them feel like who they are. You know, making them seem like, you know, giving them, like you said about the cartwheel before and things like, all their different moves kind of feeling like those, you know, their style.

18:02 But on the other hand, I do think that sometimes maybe they went a little overboard with, like, sometimes even just to pin is a different combination of buttons, apparently, which maybe is why I was having trouble. I found that the way that you pin in the manual is not, is just wrong anyways. I was doing it a different way. But why should doing the same move take different buttons for different characters? So, like, there were pros and cons to me.

18:24 Yeah, I would say that I liked that there was more than just, like, palette swaps here, like we may have seen in previous games. Like, the closest that I can think of to the system that we're seeing here, I don't know if it was ice hockey or if it was another one that we played around the same time, another hockey game where you could make your team filled with, like, three different archetypes of player. Yeah, that's ice hockey. Okay, that was ice hockey.

18:58 And I just liked that there were, like, there were different feel, that there was a different feel to each character. Like, if you're playing as Andrei the Giant, I did do a match with him just to say that I didn't just play as Macho Man Randy Savage.

19:13 And he's got, he's a little slower, but he's also got, like, much more reach. Like, it feels like a different game, like, let alone the different moveset. It is odd that pin is different. Like, that seems like it should have been a universal input. But I liked it more than I disliked it. Yeah, it seems like the only reason why pin is a different moveset is because certain characters have potentially more moves than others or aren't applicable.

19:44 Like, I think Bam Bam Bigelow can't body slam, so he doesn't have an A plus B button. But he has, like, an A plus B button if you have it back to the opponent. So, like, again, that whole, like, being contextual to what you're doing thing seems nice on paper because there's only an A and a B button and some directional pads. So, like, you kind of do need to figure out how to do this. And we've all agreed now that grabbing, grabbing the, going into the grapple against an enemy and then having a menu pop up with possible moves that you'd like to make is not what we want to see. And that was in tag team wrestling early in 1986.

20:27 You can check out that episode for our thoughts on a much more jank wrestling game. However, here, it's just, I feel like right now this is actually convincing me that we just might not see a good wrestling game on the NES. And that's not because I think WWF would have figured it out on the first bout. But I'm just thinking about, like, the possible combinations that you could do with just two buttons and a bunch of directions. And a lot of it is going to rely on this context-based stuff that just, you know, every now and again is just going to get you in a bad situation. Yeah. I'd say that I appreciate, I think this is the best feeling wrestling game that we've played so far. I would say that that is a low bar to clear.

21:15 But it is slowly, I mean, I don't think they'll ever get there, but they are slowly fixing all of the faults that we see in these games. I wonder if they could take, for a future game, almost like a Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat kind of approach, where, like, the input directions on the D-pad determine the moves.

21:36 And that's, like, a way you can get other moves in there, but I don't know how jank that would be. I think the only reason why they haven't opted to do that yet is, one, those games haven't come out yet, and they're the ones that, like, make that whole idea even possible. Like, I don't think games were doing that before those fighting games came out. But also, you know, you have a sense of 3D movement in the ring. If you made this a strict 2D fighter, it wouldn't quite feel like a wrestling game. It would just be more like an Urban Champion style game for the NES, you know? Mm-hmm. In that case, like, for me, I feel like the more arcade-y something, a sports game feels on a retro console, the better it'll play.

22:18 And the fact that they're going for realism with this game, I feel like, I agree with you. I don't know if it could get, if the controls could get tighter. But, you know, I'm glad you mentioned Street Fighter and those kind of games, because, in a way, this really is a fighting game, right? Like, we joked about way back in Trojan, our first episode for 1987, or maybe it was our second episode, I don't remember. Anyway, we joked about how that has a fighting game mode, and those guys would go on to create Street Fighter, so that's pretty interesting. But here, you know, you've got an energy meter, you've got your ability to do different moves based on the context of situations.

23:03 So, I actually think, like, this isn't, like, that far off from the idea of what fighting games would eventually become. It's still not, it's not there, but it's also interesting to see these proto, you know, fighting, fighting, what do you call those fighting games? Like, is that what you call them? Fighting games? This game's kind of weird. It feels wrong to me. MLG? It feels weird to just call Street Fighter a fighting game, though, right? Like, it's gotta be something. A 2D fighting game. There you go. Sure, sure, why not? It just feels strange that shmups have, like, a cool category, and Street Fighter doesn't have, like, a shmup-like word for it.

23:45 I do think that a big reason that it feels like it's getting closer to fighting games that we know and stuff is what we already talked about, is that you have to learn your character. That's something we didn't really have so much before, and maybe a little bit, but, like, this, the pros and cons aside, like, it is, you do have to, like, learn your character to learn that character's moves. And, like, you get good with one character, and I think that makes it feel a lot closer to, like, what we're more familiar with.

24:14 Yeah, I appreciate that. I didn't really think about it that way, that, like, some of the depth and the replayability of a game like this, it, like, just boils down to, like, who you select. And I appreciate that. It sort of brings us to a more modern view of these kinds of games. Again, because I keep thinking about games in the past basically just being palette swaps. So, while it's a weird execution, I still view it positively.

24:59 So, did anyone actually wind up becoming the WWF Heavyweight Champion and beating the tournament mode and fighting every other character? I got, like, three or four guys in at that point. It just seemed even harder to land a hit. Like, DiBiase was a chump, but everything beyond that, it got exponentially harder for me. It was on that road for me, and then I actually lost a couple times to Honky Tonk Man, because he had gotten harder. So, then after Honky Tonk Man, when I finally beat him, I got to Randy Savage, and I thought, okay, well, now I'm definitely done, because it's just going to get harder. And he was like a cakewalk. And then I lost on Andre the Giant. So, no, I also didn't win. I did not do well in this game.

25:50 I'll just leave it at that. Yeah, yeah. You know, what's funny is, like, we joked about how Hulk gets all the attention and stuff like that, and you got to remember, Hulkamania was a real thing in the late 80s and even early 90s.

26:05 The guy was more than just the WWF. He was in movies. He was just a big celeb in general. And so, it makes sense that they would call him out on the back of the box rather than any other character. But it also feels like they kind of made him, I don't want to say, like, the Mike Tyson version of this game, but they definitely made him the best character in the game and the hardest one to beat, personally. So, like, playing as him was a huge advantage, but also going against him just seemed like it was a really tough fight. I don't know if you guys felt like they gave him a better moveset or just made him more powerful. I don't know what it was about him. He just felt hard to beat.

26:44 I didn't ever get to him. So, unfortunately, while I played as him for a little bit, I did not even face the computer as Hulk. And I only faced Hulk as the single-player mode. I think in tournament, he actually probably is saved for last, if I think about it. He is. Yeah, because I couldn't get to him. Yeah, I did the same thing. I just faced him. I just selected him outside of a tournament just to see what it was like, and I lost. I don't know if that means he was harder or I'm just bad. I also had a hard time. I feel like him and Andre the Giant were both very difficult. I mean, they were all difficult, don't get me wrong, but those two seemed like they were elevated.

27:43 And just as a side note about our boy, Macho Man, I just didn't appreciate how in the manual they kept calling him Randy Macho Man Savage. It really doesn't have the same cadence. It felt kind of disrespectful. Maybe they called him that in the 80s, but I've only known him as Macho Man Randy Savage. Can you clarify, Mike? They were definitely calling him Macho Man Randy Savage. So that is weird and something that maybe my eyes corrected while I was reading the manual. Maybe I just chose to – because, you know, and now that I'm looking at the manual, since you brought it up, I brought up my own, and it is weird to see Randy Macho Man Savage there.

28:30 It's also like there's Ted Million Dollar Man DiBiase, and I don't think that's right either. I think it was Ted DiBiase, the Million Dollar Man. Not like Million Dollar Man is like his nickname. It's like he is the Million Dollar Man. I see. So they're just chumps. Yeah. I don't know what this is about, but, you know, this is another one of those games that was made by Rare.

28:57 So, you know, questionable output from them after a hot start on the system. They went from Slalom and – Great game. Yeah. What's questionable about Slalom? What was that other game? Wizards and Warriors? Did they make Wizards and Warriors? I feel like they did. I'll say they did, and then I'll edit it out if I'm wrong. But they made those games, and now all of a sudden it's like it's okay to start making some garbage too.

29:21 Not that this is garbage. I'm just saying, like, for Rare's quality of stuff, this is a step down. Let's be real. Yeah. There's no big butts in this game like Slalom. Right. I don't remember the big butts in Slalom. Did we make a big joke about it? I don't know how you could miss it. It was – Yeah. It's right in your face, actually. It's like the center point, the focal point of the screen.

29:41 That's why the game was essential for – All right. Well, we got a few more WWF games to go on the NES. I don't know the titles of all of them off the top of my head, but I do know that the very next one is going to be a WrestleMania game again. It is WWF WrestleMania Challenge, and if I had to guess, it's probably made by Rare as well. Hope to be wrong, but I'd like to see each third-party developer get a stab at making a WWF game. What do you got, Konami?

30:09 Capcom, what do you bring in to the WWF genre? I'd love to see it. LJN, you too. Why not? We're probably not going to get that many, but I think we get at least four of these guys on the NES. Give me a Data East one. No. Give me a Jaleco version. I want to see how Data East says Randy Savage's name.

30:30 That's the test. Everybody gets the Macho Man Randy Savage test. I want to see a Will Wright version. Oh, that would be interesting. You're a manager in that game, and you have to try to sign your wrestler through – first, you're in the Northeast Regional Division, and you've got to build yourself up to the WWF. And then they start getting concussions, and you have to be like, all right, which one – like, how much can I push you before you're going to sue me? Oh, I like that. You're managing a bunch of different wrestlers, too. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. It's like it's a wrestling manager simulator. I would play that game for 100%. Absolutely. Any game with concussions, really. That's why we play Madden every year.

31:11 I thought a Will Wright version would be more like you create like a prototype version of the sport of wrestling, and then you let it evolve over time into what we know as wrestling today. Like spore?

31:24 Yeah. It feels more like a post-show thing, but like someone has to explain to me the origins of staged wrestling in general. Like how did it just become a thing that there are now like worldwide leagues for this, and it's just globally accepted that nobody actually wrestles anybody for real? It's just bizarre. Not to get into it, but I mean isn't it like a circus thing? Yes, it is, but I just meant like for how long? Like did the Greeks do this even way back when? Like did they have their own form of staged fighting that wasn't necessarily wrestling we know today but was still like a thing? Was the Coliseum staged? Did those lions really eat those guys?

32:08 Something tells me yes. Okay. That's fair. But that wasn't Frank DiBiase. I just like to say his name. Right. I just meant like maybe it didn't happen. I mean, you know, they wouldn't be here if that happened. That's true. Quick shout out to WWF WrestleMania 2000, a WWF WrestleMania game I really like, and that's on the N64. And also if we're talking about N64 wrestling games, you might as well bring up WWF No Mercy where you have to say dig diggity dog. That's just something everybody has to say when they bring up WWF No Mercy. You'll know what I'm talking about if you're a real one.

32:50 Also, Joe, I think you wanted to talk about WWF SmackDown on the PlayStation 1. Well, I mentioned it. Did I mention it last week on the episode? I think so. That was the first WWF game that I played, and that was when I was sort of into WWF at the time. And that game, as far as I remember, was pretty great. I'm sure if I played it now, I'd find all kinds of flaws with it. But I was hoping that this game would feel a little more like that, obviously with limited expectations. Right, but that one actually had a story mode that could go on for multiple years.

33:30 This game definitely needs more than a tournament mode. It would be cool if you built up to WrestleMania, not just singular fights. Right, but also on that note too, I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't able to play any one multiplayer. I think that this is another game. I don't think it would turn anything around or be a significantly better game in multiplayer. But I feel like this is a game that is probably at least more fun in multiplayer. It's not necessarily fun to go against the computer or as fun to go against the computer than it is to actually compete with someone else in any kind of wrestling game like this. And that's what that old game kind of invoked for me when I was hoping to get here.

34:13 Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I would have gotten very frustrated at playing this game with any of you because you'd be landing attacks on me that I feel like shouldn't register and I'd be cursing the whole time. Don't be so hard on yourself. Yeah, I don't think I'd be winning any World Heavyweight Championships against real people. My only shot here was against the computers and I couldn't even do that. So I don't win the belt, but maybe this game will get the championship belt in a little thing we like to call the Essential Games List. In this corner, Sean the Revolution. Give us your Essential Games List vote.

34:53 This game is not as jank as past wrestling games, but it's 100% a jank game. I think that there's a lot of great steps forward in presentation, especially considering these are actually like real wrestlers with kind of, you know, they have things about the gameplay that you play as them that are somewhat based off of the wrestler themselves. So I thought that was cool. But playing the game is it's it's very frustrating. They don't have this down yet, so it is not essential. All right. You heard it first from the revolution himself. Yeah. Sam, would you like to vote?

35:49 Yes. Just Sam. That's my name. End of this corner. Sam. Well, you usually do a big like, you know, in our in our best of 88 episodes, you had a big like number 10. Like you, you usually do your own hyping. So I felt like. Oh, yeah. Just Sam. You could turn that into something. You could be like, yeah, I'm Sam and I'm here to tell you, man. Like. Yeah. Um. It's not essential.

36:20 That's really all you have to say. No, no, no. I'm just kidding. It's it's not essential, but it it's the best of the wrestling games that we've played so far. I like that each of the characters is is like their own character and they feel different. It's not just a palette swap like we've mentioned before, but there's still a lot to be. There's a lot lacking in this game. And that's what I have to say about that. All right. Brother. Yeah, brother. That's what I'm talking about, man.

36:51 Joe. Just Joe. Just a guy named Joe. That could be. Wait, that's the only one. I'm the only one with a nickname. Come on. No, but I think just a guy named Joe is actually interesting because that's like there's a Spider-Man comic early on where like they they just said just a guy named Joe. And I never quite understood that. I was like, is Spider-Man the guy who's just a guy named Joe? And is though like his name's Peter Parker. So why would you put that on the cover? Anyway, interesting tangent there. Joe's name should be Spider-Man.

37:24 Right. Oh, Joe's name could be Spider-Man and Spider-Man's name could be just a guy named Joe. Yeah, or Spider-Man. You're blowing my secret here that I'm Spider-Man. Oh, whoops. Well, you also fought Macho Man then in Spider-Man 1, the movie. That's right. Was that Macho Man? That was Macho Man. I forgot about that. That's right. Yeah. Bone Saw is always ready. Bone Saw. So we weren't off track at all. But here's my essential games thoughts on this game.

37:53 So I had, before I played this, I had actually seen some reviews on this just in the past. And they were really, really bad. And I'm not saying that that review was not deserved. But I will say that that colored my opinion in a way that this game surprised me. And it was not as bad as I thought it was.

38:11 Especially because I was also thinking of other similar games we've played on the NES so far. And I do think that there's a level of charm. And I do think that there's a good amount of, I don't know, there's a good amount of fan appreciation. Or a good amount of attention to detail. That if you were a fan in the 80s, you'd probably, and you're a kid and you haven't experienced other games better than this, you'd probably like this game quite a bit. But that being said, it's a very flawed game. Especially just with the way it controls. Where you can't fight facing forward or facing backwards. And it's a little simplified. And sometimes it feels like your inputs aren't working. It's definitely not essential.

38:52 I would say I would probably only actually give it a play it if you're into wrestling games anyways and you're interested in this. But there are definitely plenty of better options out there. So no, not essential. Alright, so there's no chance of it being on the essential games list. But I will throw out there that I don't think this is the best wrestling game we've had on the NES so far. I do think pro wrestling, which was actually made by Nintendo, is the best and the standard to go off of. And as you know from last episode, I think I said my rules are that if a game in a genre already is better than it, but that one's not on the list, why should this one be? And that still holds true here.

39:26 You know, it's a wrestling game that includes some fan service, but it missed a lot of stuff that we talked about early on. Where the heck is the crowd, the atmosphere, the introductions, the announcers? This stuff needs to be in there, especially if you're trying to match the presentational format of a WrestleMania. You can't call your game WrestleMania where you're talking about crowds of like 93,000. That was all made up too. But at least they could have made up the crowds here and pretended like there were 93,000 people in attendance rather than just lie to the public.

39:54 However, that's not here. You know, there's really nothing else here other than the characters that, you know, I feel like are a good representation. I'm a little surprised there's no Ricky the Dragon or Ultimate Warrior in this game. But we'll take what we can get. And I think this is a good start. And I'm not going to dismiss future WWF NES games. That said, I know Joe mentioned that people are tough on these games. Perhaps a little too tough. You know, it takes some learning. But you can get there. However, if we're looking at the Essential Games list as games you should go back and play today,

40:26 I'm saying that if you want to fight with the same set of awesome wrestlers in your roster, allow me to recommend Legends of WrestleMania on like the GameCube, PS2, and Xbox, where all the presentational stuff of WrestleMania is there. Plus the ability to play as guys like Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, and yes, even Ultimate Warrior. So Legends of WrestleMania is the game I would recommend. I'm not saying that's going on the NES Essential Games list, but it would be on some kind of Essential Games list in a different universe. What about like Here Comes the Pain, you know? That's a good one, right? It's an okay game.

41:03 Legends of WrestleMania embraced like the old campiness of the WWF and WrestleMania in general and stuff like that and really like fit into everything. So I'm saying if you're looking for like a WrestleMania game, Legends of WrestleMania is my pick. And a game that would be more likely, not is, but more likely to be on my Essential Games list than whatever WWF WrestleMania poses itself to be on the NES. So for that reason, it will not be joining the Essential Games list.

41:29 But not many games get a chance for that anyway. And 1988 is proving rough for Essential Games list. Sesame Street 1, 2, 3 came close. 89. However, some bad menu. Oh, 1989. That's right. Sesame Street 1, 2, 3 came close, but some bad NES games, you know, will be found as we continue to go through. A couple of people wrote into us and were like, hey, just so you know, games get worse as the years go on. And I'm like, don't threaten me with a bad time.

41:57 Good time. No, bad time. They're threatening me with a bad time. Oh, yes, they are. Yeah, they are. But you're right. That's the usual saying is don't threaten me with a good time. Another thing we should probably mention is that we're trying to plan a little game jam, nostalgia style. If you're not familiar with what a game jam is, we'll probably throw a link in the show notes to the actual website and everything like that or some details that we have. And we'll be talking about it on Twitter, too, to build up to it. But essentially, we're going to try and host something where people who are familiar with creating games can try to make some NES-style games of their own. And we will play them on a special episode.

42:33 I know Sam, this Sam, this very same Sam. Sam. Yeah, that Sam is going to be making a game. So if he can make a game, why can't you? What's your excuse? Yeah. Sam, do you want to talk a little bit more about this game jam?

42:48 Go for it, Sam. I think you just about got it. But for anyone who's not familiar with game jams, it's kind of like a boot camp where you have a limited amount of time to make a game.

43:03 And for this one specifically, we're asking that your games are themed after the NES. So if it's some kind of mechanic from an NES game that you like or just something that you think would be cool to play on the NES, we're asking that it's like the NES-style graphics. So I think that's 256 by 240 for resolution size and audio that doesn't have to be exactly NES but sounds like NES audio. To get the aesthetic. Yeah, just to try and fit the aesthetic of an NES so it shouldn't be like anything crazy in 3D or anything like that, like pixel art.

43:45 It should be pixel art, I mean. And that's it. And I just hope that people join and have fun. Yeah, it sounds awesome. We'll be running it from March 19th to the 28th. And if you can't make games, don't worry because you'll also get a chance to play these games. You don't just have to hear about them from us. But if you can make games, that means now your audience is going to be larger than just four people. It's going to be every listener of Nostalgia as well. And believe me, there are tens of us.

44:15 That said, we'll continue to talk about this on Twitter, at NostalgiaCast if you don't know. And don't expect this game jam to be the last fun thing we do. We're doing fun things all the time. Last week I just, or a couple weeks ago, I just did a simulation of Tecmo Super Bowl with the Kansas City Chiefs versus the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And that was dead wrong. It got it wrong so many times that it hurt. In fact, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers never won a game in the simulations, but then went on to destroy the Kansas City Chiefs in the Super Bowl. Something that, you know, I'm not sure. Sean? Bills fans? How are they feeling about that? I want to see Tom Brady stop.

45:01 But I just had one little note about the game jam because as one would expect, we will be the judges. And so if for any reason you think you want to stroke the ego of one or a few of us within the game by making an, maybe you'll just say how right we are about games like with a character in yours or something like that. Feel free. There's no rules against something like that. You know, that makes me wonder, Sam, would it be cheating if they made just a game based on the essential games list where you can walk through like a museum of the essential games list and then just play those actual like pirated versions of those games? If they can figure out how to code it, they can do whatever they want.

45:49 I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily legal, but, you know, we're not selling it, so there's no harm. Yeah. We're not selling it, so there's no harm. We're not really selling anything on this podcast, and that's why the episodes are run as long as we want. Nobody can tell us to stop. Nobody produces the nostalgia people, and that could be a problem to certain listeners, I bet. They're probably like, wow, this episode should have ended two minutes ago. And to that I say it's ending right now, and you can't stop us either.

46:19 So join us next week for Bandai Golf Challenge Pebble Beach. A little strange because the colons come between golf and challenge but not Pebble Beach, so it sounds like you're challenging Pebble Beach to a game of Bandai Golf. I mean, it's hard to think that way, Mike. Right. I understand. Nobody would really think they're challenging a golf course. It's the same guy who wrote Macho Man or Randy Savage Macho Man or whatever into the manual of this game. The guy who writes these manuals really got a lot of freelance work back in the day. Yeah, he wrote all of them.

46:55 Yep. Anyway, I'm Michael Esposito. You can always find Nostalgia at NostalgiaCast on Twitter. Look forward to the Game Jam. We'll be running it from March 19th to the 28th. And you can find me at Esposito Film on Twitter, and I'll be talking to you real soon. Bye. Thank you.